Why did God create evil?

[Skwim]

I form the light, and - shape/form/transform/cut-out/separate - darkness: I make peace, and shape/form/transform/cut-out/separate evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I give up.

 

[Blackdog22]

You are so wrong.

Well don't just stop there. Go on please and make your case.

 

[Blackdog22]

Yeah, but I think Blackdog was there...he seems to know...

I am actually not exclaiming to know anything. I asked a question about how the fruit contained evil. The only ones exclaiming knowledge are you two. So reverse that statement on yourself or else your making no sense.

 

[Blackdog22]

I would say most importantly that 'knowledge of (good and) evil' is perhaps not what you think. Less important, but I think more pertinent to what you are asking in this question and in your post is that this tree serves as THE catalyst for telling a long tale that equals God's separation from God's creation, but again, not in the way that one might think. Genesis 2 is one big rope-a-dope for what is really going on with LORD God.

So if knowledge of good and evil, isn't knowledge of good and evil then what is it? You gotta at least explain yourself or your just making blank statements.

What exactly is going on with the Lord God? What exactly did you learn from this passage in Genesis that I missed out on?

The way I see it either the tale is fact and thus God put evil inside a tree which means he did in fact create evil, or it is fiction and there was no original sin and thus no need for Jesus and thus Christianity serves no purpose. Either way it makes no sense.

 

[Acim]

So if knowledge of good and evil, isn't knowledge of good and evil then what is it? You gotta at least explain yourself or your just making blank statements.

I didn't say it wasn't knowledge of good and evil, and did say it perhaps not what you think and countered your claim that the tree had idea of evil in it.

I think there are a few ways to put 'knowledge of good and evil' which may have slight variation. One way is 'knowledge of perception' and what that really means. Another way is knowledge of everything and nothing (everything being good - as depicted in Gen. 1) and nothing being what knowledge would be if it opposed good (everything). And another way would be knowledge by way of innocence and judgment - innocence being good, judgment being evil.

What exactly is going on with the Lord God? What exactly did you learn from this passage in Genesis that I missed out on?

That LORD God is nowhere to be found in Gen. 1. That LORD God doesn't see all of creation (from Gen. 1) as inherently good. That LORD God forms (doesn't create) Adam and that Adam (or perhaps LORD God) is really ego of the other. And that in desire to not want to be alone (perpetuating separation), LORD God causes Adam to fall into a deep sleep in which there is no reference to Adam's awakening. Hence the taking of tree of knowledge and banishment is a) manifestation of dream, and b) is depiction of a jealous / punishing god that is nowhere to be found in Gen. 1.

The way I see it either the tale is fact and thus God put evil inside a tree which means he did in fact create evil, or it is fiction and there was no original sin and thus no need for Jesus and thus Christianity serves no purpose. Either way it makes no sense.

Like all spiritual stories it serves as a teaching tool, and is open to interpretation. It is a story of how life of God's Creation (spirit) came to be in the physical, and how certain key concepts were formed, like evil. Clear understanding of the story is not necessary to identify error and overcome sin, as the story is just one of several paths designed to raise awareness and/or enhance discernment.

 

[InChrist]

However, perhaps you could answer how the tree in the garden had the knowledge of evil inside of it. You exclaim free will as the reason for evil, but the fact is the tree had the idea of evil inside of it. All of the knowledge one could ever want to know of evil was inside this inanimate tree that your God created. How exactly do you explain that?

Do you really think the scriptures are saying that there was evil inside the tree?

 

[InChrist]

Just as with unicorns and faeries, the lack of it says there isn't.

And your opinion should mean what?

And what does "contrast" mean?

con·trast (kn-trst, kntrst)

v. con·trast·ed, con·trast·ing, con·trasts
v.tr.
To set in opposition in order to show or emphasize differences:
​

Not at all "clearly."

Hold on. Your source equated the destruction with evil

"Isaiah simply was stating that Jehovah has the power to cause peaceful conditions to exist, or to bring about evil (i.e., destruction)."
​

So, if the destruction is evil in nature then it means its opposite cannot be true: that it was a good thing. So, being evil in nature it logically follows that whoever did it, god in this case, committed an evil act. Of course, I have no problem with this in as much as god brought evil into the world in the first place. Ya bring the pie ya may as well have a piece.

No more so than believers who cherry pick those verses that support their needs and ignore all those that stand in opposition.

Boy, if that makes you sad I can't imagine what all the other miseries that befall people do to you. You must be a basket case by bed time.

[FONT=&quot]If you were experiencing being conquered by another nation and living in the midst of war, you may well consider such a disastrous and destructive situation evil. The Bible uses these terms to describe the conditions when Israel was conquered by other nations and in this case when Babylon was invaded and conquered. Because God is good He cannot and does not initiate evil or commit acts of evil, but He works to accomplish His good purposes through and in spite of the evil which humans have perpetuated throughout history.
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[FONT=&quot]I do not pick out verses as you are doing. Throughout the scriptures God is portrayed as good, just, holy, righteous, patient, and loving. There are too many verses and passages to list which support this truth. Yet, you find one or two verses that you believe say otherwise and come up with your own theology that God is bad or does evil while ignoring the rest of the Bible…that is cherry picking and taking scriptures out of context with a deliberate agenda in mind.
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[FONT=&quot]I'm out as soon as I hit the pillow and sleep very peacefully. I’m just sad that you feel so compelled to fight against your Creator. I see it as such a conflict of your best interest and a waste of a valuable life. Of course, my opinions don’t really matter much, but God’s do.[/FONT]

 

[InChrist]

let me get this straight.
if a & e hadn't disobeyed before eating the fruit
how can there be knowledge of it?

Could you rephrase this question? I'm not exactly sure I understand it.

 

[Blackdog22]

Do you really think the scriptures are saying that there was evil inside the tree?

The scripture is saying that there was knowledge of evil inside a piece of fruit. I know it sounds rediculous to me too, but I don't follow it.

Anyways the knowledge of something means that something had to of already existed. You can't have a knowledge of something non existent. So clearly God had created evil at some point, understood what evil was in depth, and created a tree with the knowledge of this evil inside of it. Either that or your saying there is another creator who created evil and is equally as strong as God thus was allowed to plant an evil tree in the Garden.

 

[Blackdog22]

I give up.

It's cool man, he is clearly smarter than every historian and translator on the planet and you know why? GOOGLE SEARCH!!

 

[waitasec]

Could you rephrase this question? I'm not exactly sure I understand it.

did good and evil exist before the knowledge of the existence of good and evil?

 

[Acim]

did good and evil exist before the knowledge of the existence of good and evil?

No...

 

[Starsoul]

Isaiah 45:7



Why would the Lord create evil? I'm sure Christians can explain this; I'm not looking for an argument, I'd just like to understand. Is this quote taken out of context?

Not sure if I should be posting in here since it seems like a christian debate but since it is in the general debate section,

I don't think God creates Evil, he creates free will and people choose to convince themselves and utilize their intelligence towards evil. But that of corse is a muslim concept.

Also, evil did not inherently come from Earth, people had to put their creative efforts to make weapons to kill each other. There's a lot of free will there.

Nobody just wakes up and thinks and 'hey, I think I'll kill two people today, what a great idea". There is always at least two ways of doing things, if we jump into the mud swamp instead of making a bridge, who's to say that the swamp is evil, what about the bridge?So safely one can say that there are two kind of influences that affect your thoughts and decisions, one is the desire to do gain something by doing evil, and the other is to avoid evil by breeding goodness. The choice is yours.

 

[waitasec]

No...

so how is it possible that god had knowledge of evil if it didn't exist or good for that matter?


god said all that he created was good... good has no meaning if there wasn't anything to compare it to.

 

[InChrist]

did good and evil exist before the knowledge of the existence of good and evil?

This is an interesting question as are the other thoughts you posted in #174...so how is it possible that god had knowledge of evil if it didn't exist or good for that matter?
god said all that he created was good... good has no meaning if there wasn't anything to compare it to.


I think we can only speculate, but I believe since the scriptures state that God is eternal and good then good has always existed and since He is omniscient and aware of all things He knew about the possibility of evil, but evil did not become a reality until it arose out of the thoughts of Lucifer.

 

[Skwim]

If you were experiencing being conquered by another nation and living in the midst of war, you may well consider such a disastrous and destructive situation evil.

Perhaps, but in this passage in Isaiah it isn't you, or I, or anyone being conquered who is using the word "evil." It's god, and he's saying he created it. "I . . . create evil."

The Bible uses these terms to describe the conditions when Israel was conquered by other nations and in this case when Babylon was invaded and conquered.

That's fine, but in this case it also purports to be quoting god himself, "I . . . create evil," not any poor recipient of his wrath.

Because God is good He cannot and does not initiate evil or commit acts of evil,

And that's the dilemma you and others are trying to extricate yourselves from. You want it both ways: take the Bible as the word of god when it suits your theology, but deny it's the word of god when it doesn't.

I do not pick out verses as you are doing.

Of course not, they're too embarrassing.

Throughout the scriptures God is portrayed as good, just, holy, righteous, patient, and loving.

and vengeful, wrathful, jealous, petty, intolerant, and evil.

There are too many verses and passages to list which support this truth.

Same for the characteristics I've listed. So what does one do? Pick one of the two lists and run with it while ignoring the other altogether, or does one recognize that they both apply and adjust one's concept of god accordingly? OR . . . does one dismiss both lists altogether? Pretty obvious which one Christians pick.

Yet, you find one or two verses that you believe say otherwise and come up with your own theology that God is bad or does evil while ignoring the rest of the Bible…that is cherry picking and taking scriptures out of context with a deliberate agenda in mind.

Hey, I never claimed the Bible is truth, as you do. That you accept that he and others depict him as good, just, holy, righteous, patient, and loving is fine. However, you can't turn around and then ignore the negative things said about him. Well, you can if you choose to be dishonest about it.

The problem is, Christians find it difficult to abide by their claim that the Bible is the word of god, and delivers only the truth. Instead, they have to strangle their theology to such an extent that to the outsider it takes on the guise of self-serving gibberish whose message doesn't begin to match up with the source material.

To the outsider, Christianity requires more than faith; it also requires turning a blind eye.

 

[Acim]

so how is it possible that god had knowledge of evil if it didn't exist or good for that matter?

Because knowledge precedes (or supersedes) existence.
Also helpful to realize, I think, that good and evil don't actually exist. "Tree of Knowledge" within the story serves as a catalyst. I don't believe it is accurate to say that once Eve (and Adam) ate of the tree, they saw / understood evil, but of course, given interpretations and judgment, that is debatable.

god said all that he created was good... good has no meaning if there wasn't anything to compare it to.

With knowledge, there is no need for meaning, no need to compare.

 

[javajo]

I am actually not exclaiming to know anything. I asked a question about how the fruit contained evil. The only ones exclaiming knowledge are you two. So reverse that statement on yourself or else your making no sense.

Yeah, I was just joking.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Isaiah 45:7



Why would the Lord create evil? I'm sure Christians can explain this; I'm not looking for an argument, I'd just like to understand. Is this quote taken out of context?

The external God is also within you.

Evil and goodness both come from the same source and are integral parts of everything. At the source there is nothing from which these two opposite arise, and then everything in between. It's unhealthy to repress or deny an integral part of your nature... as the God of the bible says he does and commends others to do... when he knows it is also Him.

 

[Sententia]

It would help me personally to know exactly what you consider to be evil? Are you talking about malicious, sociopathic people? Are you talking about forces of nature? Are you talking about cancer? Give me some examples of things you believe are evil, and I'll try to answer your question.

I don't know how that will help? If the bible is god talking and god said he created evil than I think gods definition would be more valuable than my definition. (I wasn't even born when this was penned) The OP mentioned Isaiah 45:7:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

from: Isaiah 45:7 KJV - I form the light and create darkness I - Bible Gateway