Why Did God Create Humanity?

[ThePainefulTruth]

So, God created us with faults,

No, we evolved with free will--the ability to choose between good an evil.

then he sent the flood to destroy nearly all,

No, God does not interact. And the flood as described in the Bible didn't happen anyway. FYI, 20,000 years ago sea level was 400' below what it is now, and as always, cultural centers were on the coasts. As sea level rose, sometimes violently, those centers were subsumed, leaving people devastated with now 20,000 year old legends from around the world. We're just now beginning to find some of those mostly silt covered remnants.

because we were not up to to his mark.

That's the biggest fallacy, that God judges us. We judge ourselves subconsciously, and in the hereafter (if it exists) bathed in the undeniable light of Truth.

Then he starts the process again, sends his son/his messengers to correct the fault.

Pure Pauline Mithraic paganism. Like I said, we can't use an animal, or human or god sacrifice as a substitute for repentance.

And gave us free-will and left it to us to correct faults.

Correct our own faults of our own individual volition.

If we do not correct the faults, he fries us in olive oil for all eternity.

Your sarcasm is wasted on me. If there is an afterlife at all, evil, bathed in that light of Truth, will always take the humane option, oblivion.

And if we correct the faults, he wants us to sing his praises in heaven for all eternity. Sorry, what kind of logic God follows? I fail to understand him. I hope you understand his logic.

You're wasting your time with all of this since I don't buy into any of it in the first place. I'd have thought you'd have picked up on that a long time ago. It's like atheists who always argue against the revealed religion because it's the easy target, makes them feel good about themselves. They just can't (or won't) fathom the deist, laissez-faire God, alternative possibility.

 

[Useless2015]

Then what in the world do you mean by ". . . we need Him for everything."?

Who would look after us if it wasnt for God?

HOWEVER, if your example was meant to "prove" god exists because we exist very nicely rather than not exist at all then I'm afraid your talking to the wrong person. Sometimes known as a version of the "Something rather than nothing" argument, it contends that god must exist because everything meshes together so nicely for us. Well, fortuitous circumstances and evolution can be said to have done the very same thing, and with evidence to back it up no less. Positing a god is completely superfluous.

Fortuitous as in dumb luck? What happened to logic and evidence?

Not at all sure what you mean by "perfect harmony," so tell me, what perfect harmony do you consider convincing?

Why is it hot or cold, tall or short, inside or outside, male and female?

The logic lies in recognizing the failure of those asserting there is a god to show this to be the case. Sound logic demands that all the relevant premises be true. If I told you that pink tigers were devouring all the newborn babies in Philadelphia would you believe me without compelling evidence to back it up? Not unless you were brain dead. Same goes for the assertion that god exists. Merely standing in amazement at how you see life around being in "perfect harmony" is not an argument.

Where is the logic in thinking our creation was purely dumb luck?

Not at all. Considering that history plainly shows how much of a struggle it was years ago to merely stay alive, I fail to see your "everything that we need is provided for us." Throughout the ages children died in great numbers because they didn't have even the basics to survive on---in the middle ages the infant mortality rate was 30% - 50%. Even today we have starving children throughout the world who are in this very position, not even getting close to having "everything that we need." Moreover, in the middle ages the life span for women of high stature was only 43.6 years, and that of men, 48.7 years.

How many of us would be left if God took away water?

 

[Skwim]

Who would look after us if it wasnt for God?

Look after? I don't see any sign of it whatsoever. In fact, I see many signs to the contrary.

Fortuitous as in dumb luck? What happened to logic and evidence?

For hundreds of years the evidence has been accumulating to the point where today we have a darn good idea how it all came about. The recognition that the evidence is meaningful is the logic.

Why is it hot or cold, tall or short, inside or outside, male and female?

Sorry but I don't entertain questions that are in reply to my question. Can't answer, then you can't answer. I understand..

Where is the logic in thinking our creation was purely dumb luck?

The logic is the lack of a better alternative.
Postulating that some being in the sky is responsible, when there is no evidence whatsoever, is hardly convincing, or even worthy of consideration.

How many of us would be left if God took away water?

How many of us would be left if god had not wiped out all of civilization (save for the fortunate eight) in the great flood? In any case your reply is irrelevant. That one of the essentials for life exists only goes to show that without it we would not be here, at least in our present form. That you want to credit god for putting water here is fine, just provide the evidence. And ancient writings about the supernatural, which have been passed down through the ages do not qualify. We have many such writings besides the one you adhere to, and with much different stories about your "perfect harmony." So, if you want anyone to believe your stories are better than all the others then you have a considerable task ahead for yourself.[/quote]

 

[Aset's Flames]

No, God = Truth. God made the universe which has an Earth with both sunshine and rain, night and day, warm and cool--all of which are perfect opposites. I could go on.



No, the only source of evil in the universe is sentient self-aware creatures with free will. All animals and inanimate objects are innocent. God (if It exists) does not interact in the universe so does not cause good or evil.

You just contradicted yourself.

Humans (well our bodies at least) are animals.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

You just contradicted yourself.

Humans (well our bodies at least) are animals.

We are the only ones with full self-awareness--which is what determines the ability to have inherent moral awareness.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

We are the only ones with full self-awareness--which is what determines the ability to have inherent moral awareness.

Not according to science. Non-human animals have a sense of morality/ethics, are self-aware and so on. Whales and such are probably at least as intelligent as humans, if not more so. They're even close to finally admitting that insects think.

Your point of view is just outdated anthrocentrism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How is "love" the ultimate creative force?

Due to its motivational aspects.

And you talk about "all" living beings--what about the living beings that cause death and destruction to those that love God?

They are Spirits lost in ignorance, as we all are on some level, besides the Saints in Heaven.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Not according to science. Non-human animals have a sense of morality/ethics, are self-aware and so on. Whales and such are probably at least as intelligent as humans, if not more so. They're even close to finally admitting that insects think.

Your point of view is just outdated anthrocentrism.

I said we are the only ones with full self-awareness. By that I mean awareness of the inevitability, permanence and universality of death--which includes one's self. Yes some higher animals do have primitive self-awareness, and some may even have greater mental capacity than we do, but I'm not aware of any that show an understanding of the implications of death--including putting one's self in the place of another that it had just killed or harmed. Can I say without doubt there are no exceptions? No, there are a very few dim possibilities, but that doesn't mean that we should extend the benefit of that unlikely doubt to any beyond those few.

All animals with a nerve system have a level of consciousness, but to imply that's equivalent with rational thought is absurd. At one point, "they" were even close to believing that grass could think. This Mother Earthism is just another form of religion "revealed" by a different brand of self-appointed prophets.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I said we are the only ones with full self-awareness. By that I mean awareness of the inevitability, permanence and universality of death--which includes one's self. Yes some higher animals do have primitive self-awareness, and some may even have greater mental capacity than we do, but I'm not aware of any that show an understanding of the implications of death--including putting one's self in the place of another that it had just killed or harmed. Can I say without doubt there are no exceptions? No, there are a very few dim possibilities, but that doesn't mean that we should extend the benefit of that unlikely doubt to any beyond those few.

All animals with a nerve system have a level of consciousness, but to imply that's equivalent with rational thought is absurd. At one point, "they" were even close to believing that grass could think. This Mother Earthism is just another form of religion "revealed" by a different brand of self-appointed prophets.

It's more that our perceptions are expanding because the evidence is showing that humans aren't all that special. We're just arrogant and stupid, so we like to pretend we're so special (when we're probably only "special" in our amount of wretchedness). The idea that we are comes from those religions you claim to despise so much, in the first place. So you're just being a hypocrite. Oops.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Due to its motivational aspects.

Love is an aspect of Truth, of which there are more.

 

[Etritonakin]

God created humanity -and other creatures -to increase and compound creativity and love.

Even if we do not accept the idea of a creator, we can all accept the fact that we increase in numbers -and the necessity of universal love.

The fact that there is not presently universal love can be attributed to the newness of individual creative beings.

The fact that we die just about the time we get the gist of things.... is quite telling

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

It's more that our perceptions are expanding because the evidence is showing that humans aren't all that special. We're just arrogant and stupid, so we like to pretend we're so special (when we're probably only "special" in our amount of wretchedness). The idea that we are comes from those religions you claim to despise so much, in the first place. So you're just being a hypocrite. Oops.

Biblical anthropocentrism is, like all of its other supernatural aspects, based on pure faith. Mine is not. I gave you the reasoning which you chose to ignore, then put those hypocritical words in my mouth. You betray your own reliance on blind faith with your artificial smugness. Maybe you could learn a thing or two from some of your thinking insects.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

God created humanity -and other creatures -to increase and compound creativity and love.

God (or god) is Truth, which is love and more. And those creatures evolved (as God would have known they would), so we would have something to eat, companions, inspirations, and to help us with our burdens.

Even if we do not accept the idea of a creator, we can all accept the fact that we increase in numbers -and the necessity of universal love.

Universal love isn't necessary, but universal free will (for man) is, and from that some choose to pursue the Truth (which include love), and some choose to pursue evil. If we were indeed created, THAT's why we're here.

The fact that there is not presently universal love can be attributed to the newness of individual creative beings.

See above.

The fact that we die just about the time we get the gist of things.... is quite telling

As Ben Franklin said, some people die at 25 but aren't buried until they're 75. An embarrassingly large majority are couch potatoes who never even give a think to where their next beer is coming from, or why they should change their underwear.

 

[Etritonakin]

God (or god) is Truth, which is love and more. And those creatures evolved (as God would have known they would), so we would have something to eat, companions, inspirations, and to help us with our burdens.



Universal love isn't necessary, but universal free will (for man) is, and from that some choose to pursue the Truth (which include love), and some choose to pursue evil. If we were indeed created, THAT's why we're here.


See above.



As Ben Franklin said, some people die at 25 but aren't buried until they're 75. An embarrassingly large majority are couch potatoes who never even give a think to where their next beer is coming from, or why they should change their underwear.

Technically -that's why you are here now -not why you are here overall.

as the song goes -and from our perspective....

I went out there for experience.... to taste and touch and to feel as much as a man can before he repents.

or... as God put it....

Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Enough experience of evil will make us weary of it -and reveal the necessity for universal love -and its nature.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Enough experience of evil will make us weary of it -and reveal the necessity for universal love -and its nature.

It only takes a few evil people along with a good supply of useful idiots to keep things going for as long as man is around. Of course that shouldn't stop us from fighting it.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Whales and such are probably at least as intelligent as humans, if not more so.

I heard on the news that Japan is going to resume whaling. Disgusting.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, and whatever the Japanese do, they do it on a large scale. Economics of scale.

 

[prometheus11]

Painful, free will isn't universal. The people who have the most free will also have the most power. God doesn't seem to care about the free will of a child who is being molested nearly as much as he cares about the free will of the person Who is doing harm to the child. Same deal with the rapist and the victim. God always dispenses more free will to the person who's more powerful and less free will to the person who is weaker. Consequently, I don't find my self respecting gods perspective on free will.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Painful, free will isn't universal. The people who have the most free will also have the most power. God doesn't seem to care about the free will of a child who is being molested nearly as much as he cares about the free will of the person Who is doing harm to the child. Same deal with the rapist and the victim. God always dispenses more free will to the person who's more powerful and less free will to the person who is weaker. Consequently, I don't find my self respecting gods perspective on free will.

But if God intervenes, then no one has free will at all, if God exists. And if God doesn't exist, then we suffer and die and that's it. With God and It's perspective, at least we have an eternity that follows without the pain in what will then appear to be only a blink. What do you suggest, close down the universe? How about a more aggressive pursuit of evil, instead of superficial hashtags, ribbons and digital overlays--though those that use their free will to choose to do evil will always be with us, if we exist. Free will is an incredible gift, and this appears to be the only way it can be bestowed.

It's amazing, some victims of child abuse grow up to be abusers themselves. But many others, choose not to be evil, though they may be severely damaged. We keep hearing that life isn't fair, we see it every day, and it's true. But I can only believe that if there is a God, victims of tragedies will be balanced out in the Hereafter. If there is no God, well then, that's the true tragedy.

 

[prometheus11]

Nope. The whole point of praying is so that God will intervene. Miracles are gods intervention. Your god places a premium on free will. He gives it to Those with a gun or more power. Never to the weaker victim.