And who 'owned' the green area prior to 1948?
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Why did the Israel's neighbors attack it in May 1948?
- Thread starter LuisDantas
- Start date
The people that live there, we call them Palestinians.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Oh, I see, and you believe that Jews and others weren't living there, I assume.
Yes, the Jews were living in the white areas, and were few in number until after WWII, Zionists don't even believe in Palestinians, they think they don't exist, no wonder its so hard having a rational discussion about Palestine with them.
Why should they accept the offer, it was a very bad offer, over 2/3 of the population gets 1/3 of the land, and they are the natives of the area, and the got the worst land as well.
No, the Arabs got 97% of the land controlled by the Ottomans.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That's actually incorrect on two counts, but I certainly don't expect you to let facts interfere with your stereotypes.
Gday LuisDantas 
Mate -
Israel STOLE the land from Palestine by force - by terrorism and trickery.
Iraqian, Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian forces then joined up to support their Palestinian friends and expel the invader Israel.
They didn't 'invade' Israel !
They DEFENDED Palestine from invasion (or tried to.)
Surely you can see that ?
A strong and powerful nation invaded and stole much of a weak and down-trodden nation.
Since then they have continued to erase and gobble up 80% of Palestine.
While massacring, murdering, kidnapping, torturing, demolishing, starving, and poisoning the land and people.
Why isn't everyone outraged ?
Two reasons mainly -
Israel dominates the military-industrial-media-banking-pharma complex.
Palestine has no friends there.
The State of Israel is bringing a new Holocaust down on Palestine.
No-one who knows the facts should support such horror, such crimes against humanity.
Kapyong
Mate -
Israel STOLE the land from Palestine by force - by terrorism and trickery.
Iraqian, Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian forces then joined up to support their Palestinian friends and expel the invader Israel.
They didn't 'invade' Israel !
They DEFENDED Palestine from invasion (or tried to.)
Surely you can see that ?
A strong and powerful nation invaded and stole much of a weak and down-trodden nation.
Since then they have continued to erase and gobble up 80% of Palestine.
While massacring, murdering, kidnapping, torturing, demolishing, starving, and poisoning the land and people.
Why isn't everyone outraged ?
Two reasons mainly -
- most people are not aware of the facts
- most people swallow the pervasive pro-Israeli propaganda
Israel dominates the military-industrial-media-banking-pharma complex.
Palestine has no friends there.
The State of Israel is bringing a new Holocaust down on Palestine.
No-one who knows the facts should support such horror, such crimes against humanity.
Kapyong
Gday LuisDantas
Well, me too Luis I think of myself as a world citizen first and foremost. I knew I would like you
It's not all about nationalities - it's about a strong people gobbling up a weak country by force.
It's about an entire country being erased, the people killed, the homes destroyed.
If Iran did that to Brazil, of COURSE you would resist.
Well, I would suggest studying up on the evidence.
With respect, I think you have swallowed Israeli propaganda without realising.
Wasn't that map I posted evidence for the erasing of Palestine ?
Kapyong
Well, me too Luis
I think of myself as a world citizen first and foremost. I knew I would like you It's not all about nationalities - it's about a strong people gobbling up a weak country by force.
It's about an entire country being erased, the people killed, the homes destroyed.
If Iran did that to Brazil, of COURSE you would resist.
Well, I would suggest studying up on the evidence.
With respect, I think you have swallowed Israeli propaganda without realising.
Wasn't that map I posted evidence for the erasing of Palestine ?
Kapyong
rosends
Well-Known Member
I will be away from the computer for a couple of days, but this single post has more historical and logical errors than can be ignored. I hope, if no one breaks this down before hand, to explain the myriad errors after the weekend.Gday LuisDantas
Mate -
Israel STOLE the land from Palestine by force - by terrorism and trickery.
Iraqian, Syrian, Egyptian and Jordanian forces then joined up to support their Palestinian friends and expel the invader Israel.
They didn't 'invade' Israel !
They DEFENDED Palestine from invasion (or tried to.)
Surely you can see that ?
A strong and powerful nation invaded and stole much of a weak and down-trodden nation.
Since then they have continued to erase and gobble up 80% of Palestine.
While massacring, murdering, kidnapping, torturing, demolishing, starving, and poisoning the land and people.
Why isn't everyone outraged ?
Two reasons mainly -
Israel is very powerful, having politically captured the US - Israel controls US foreign policy (e.g. they just increased US military aid from $3 billion to $5 billion per year - Palestine get $0.)
- most people are not aware of the facts
- most people swallow the pervasive pro-Israeli propaganda
Israel dominates the military-industrial-media-banking-pharma complex.
Palestine has no friends there.
The State of Israel is bringing a new Holocaust down on Palestine.
No-one who knows the facts should support such horror, such crimes against humanity.
Kapyong
Gday Jayhawker Soule and all
The Palestinians who had lived there for many centuries.
Zionists bought a SMALL part of Palestine, then used that to invade and capture most of Palestine.
Israel was stolen from Palestine by force.
That's recorded history.
Which is apparently not well known.
Kapyong
The Palestinians who had lived there for many centuries.
Zionists bought a SMALL part of Palestine, then used that to invade and capture most of Palestine.
Israel was stolen from Palestine by force.
That's recorded history.
Which is apparently not well known.
Kapyong
Gday icehorse and all
'Offered' ?
The UN offered to let Israel steal a large chunk of Palestine.
Arabs rejected that idea.
What a surprise !
If the Arab League offered Texas to the Iranians, how would you respond ?
Kapyong
'Offered' ?
The UN offered to let Israel steal a large chunk of Palestine.
Arabs rejected that idea.
What a surprise !
If the Arab League offered Texas to the Iranians, how would you respond ?
Kapyong
Gday all,
I think Lyndon was referring to the way that many Israelis do indeed deny that Palestine is a state.
It's one of the Four Excuses of the Apocalypse :
Excuse 1 : But Palestine is not a state !
(As if a minority denying them state-hood makes it OK to erase Palestine and kill Palestinians.)
Excuse 2 : But Hamas/PLO is evil !
(As if that makes it OK for Israel to kidnap and torture youngsters, to snipe dead innocent women and children, to massacre thousands, to execute helpless wounded.)
Excuse 3 : Israel is just defending itself !
(As if killing thousands of Palestinians - mostly civilians, destroying 10,000 homes, and disabling hundreds of children in Gaza in 2014 was just self-defence for the death of THREE Israelis.)
Excuse 4 : Look, over there ! A distraction !
(Anything to avoid exposing the erasing and gobbling up of Palestine by Israel, and the new Holocaust being persecuted against the Palestinians.)
Kapyong
I think Lyndon was referring to the way that many Israelis do indeed deny that Palestine is a state.
It's one of the Four Excuses of the Apocalypse :
Excuse 1 : But Palestine is not a state !
(As if a minority denying them state-hood makes it OK to erase Palestine and kill Palestinians.)
Excuse 2 : But Hamas/PLO is evil !
(As if that makes it OK for Israel to kidnap and torture youngsters, to snipe dead innocent women and children, to massacre thousands, to execute helpless wounded.)
Excuse 3 : Israel is just defending itself !
(As if killing thousands of Palestinians - mostly civilians, destroying 10,000 homes, and disabling hundreds of children in Gaza in 2014 was just self-defence for the death of THREE Israelis.)
Excuse 4 : Look, over there ! A distraction !
(Anything to avoid exposing the erasing and gobbling up of Palestine by Israel, and the new Holocaust being persecuted against the Palestinians.)
Kapyong
Gday Jayhawker Soule and all
Ah, word-games about what 'Palestinian' really means.
Which really boils down to showing Palestine was not formally a State.
(As if that somehow makes it OK to invade and steal the land.)
Excuse 1 : But Palestine is not a state !
(We can expect to see these four excuses repeated many times.)
In fact -
Palestine was a known region even in Roman times, here is Ptolemy's map from early 2nd century :
Even Gaza is shown.
Palestine has :
In fact - Palestine IS recognised as a state by many countries - it has a govt, it issues passports, it has borders and people and towns.
But the pro-Israelis simply deny Palestine is a state, and play word-games over definitions of 'Palestinian',
thus supporting the Israeli invasion of Palestine and it's continuing erasure - already 80% gone,
and justify the ongoing murders and massacres and kidnap and torture of Palestinians with the outrageous lie of 'self-defence' against 'terrorists'.
This is serious folks -
After the Nazi Holocaust on the Jews, we were all like :
" how did it happen ? "
" why didn't people speak out ? "
" never let it happen again ! "
Now it IS happening again, and I'm like :
" I AM speaking out "
" were IS everyone ? hello ? "
THAT is how it happens.
Kapyong
Ah, word-games about what 'Palestinian' really means.
Which really boils down to showing Palestine was not formally a State.
(As if that somehow makes it OK to invade and steal the land.)
Excuse 1 : But Palestine is not a state !
(We can expect to see these four excuses repeated many times.)
In fact -
Palestine was a known region even in Roman times, here is Ptolemy's map from early 2nd century :
Even Gaza is shown.
Palestine has :
- a name known since ancient times
- a history going back millenia
- borders and friendships with neighbouring countries
- many towns full of many people
- their own culture
- trade with other nations
In fact - Palestine IS recognised as a state by many countries - it has a govt, it issues passports, it has borders and people and towns.
But the pro-Israelis simply deny Palestine is a state, and play word-games over definitions of 'Palestinian',
thus supporting the Israeli invasion of Palestine and it's continuing erasure - already 80% gone,
and justify the ongoing murders and massacres and kidnap and torture of Palestinians with the outrageous lie of 'self-defence' against 'terrorists'.
This is serious folks -
After the Nazi Holocaust on the Jews, we were all like :
" how did it happen ? "
" why didn't people speak out ? "
" never let it happen again ! "
Now it IS happening again, and I'm like :
" I AM speaking out "
" were IS everyone ? hello ? "
THAT is how it happens.
Kapyong
Hey Kapyong,
Are you equally concerned about other groups in the region who don't have a homeland? Can you name another country created after WW I whose boundaries adhere to traditional boundaries? Can you even create such a map? The map of "Palestine" that was created by Europeans 100 years ago was just that, a creation. If your argument is that "Palestinians" ought to have a homeland based on their history, then you need to also grant them a good sized chunk out of western Jordan. (Oh, and BTW, where the heck did Jordan come from?)
The point here is that you are basing your argument on an arbitrary time slice, and an arbitrarily constrained view of geography.
Are you equally concerned about other groups in the region who don't have a homeland? Can you name another country created after WW I whose boundaries adhere to traditional boundaries? Can you even create such a map? The map of "Palestine" that was created by Europeans 100 years ago was just that, a creation. If your argument is that "Palestinians" ought to have a homeland based on their history, then you need to also grant them a good sized chunk out of western Jordan. (Oh, and BTW, where the heck did Jordan come from?)
The point here is that you are basing your argument on an arbitrary time slice, and an arbitrarily constrained view of geography.
Wrong, he's basing it on the right of the native inhabitants, who have lived there for centuries to continue to live on their own land, Israel has denied them this right, there's absolutely no way around it, Israeli Jews stole the land from its native inhabitants, and OW yes there was a small minority of Palestinian Jews who lived there before, but that hardly gives them the right to take over the whole country and ethnically cleanse the native MAJORITY Arab population, not to mention the native ethnic Palestinian Jews are discriminated against by their Zionist overlords. Not a pretty picture, and no way anybody of right reasonable mind can defend the actions of the current and past Zionist governments.
Let's say that your approach is the one we should follow. In that case, much of the ME has to be reformed, because throughout the ME, Arabs having been pushing non-Muslims out of places where they have lived for centuries.