Why Did The Mormon Church Become Involved In The Proposition 8 Battle?

[rojse]

Oh yeah, that was it, that's what I meant, yeah, the last hundred years, uh huh. Cuz I'm perfect and never make dumb mistakes.

I thought differently, but then you said you didn't so you must be right - who else would know better than you?

 

[Autodidact]

Why Did The Mormon Church Become Involved In The Proposition 8 Battle?
Same-Gender Attraction - LDS Newsroom

PUBLIC AFFAIRS: At the outset, can you explain why this whole issue of homosexuality and same-gender marriage is important to the Church?

ELDER OAKS: This is much bigger than just a question of whether or not society should be more tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle. Over past years we have seen unrelenting pressure from advocates of that lifestyle to accept as normal what is not normal, and to characterize those who disagree as narrow-minded, bigoted and unreasonable. Such advocates are quick to demand freedom of speech and thought for themselves, but equally quick to criticize those with a different view and, if possible, to silence them by applying labels like “homophobic.” In at least one country where homosexual activists have won major concessions, we have even seen a church pastor threatened with prison for preaching from the pulpit that homosexual behavior is sinful. Given these trends, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must take a stand on doctrine and principle. This is more than a social issue — ultimately it may be a test of our most basic religious freedoms to teach what we know our Father in Heaven wants us to teach.

here are some issues:
eHarmony.com sued for excluding homosexuals
eHarmony.com sued for excluding homosexuals

Moonbattery: Christians Sued for Not Participating in Homosexual Ceremony
Christians Sued for Not Participating in Homosexual Ceremony

Lesbian Sues Christian Doctor Over Refusal to Inseminate
Lesbian Sues Christian Doctor Over Refusal to Inseminate
Religious rights? Not for doctors

View Press Release
Pastor Sued For Alleged Hate Speech

Catholic Adoption Agency Will Close Before Giving Children to Homosexual Parents, Bishop States
Catholic Adoption Agency Will Close Before Giving Children to Homosexual Parents

Boy Scouts vs. homosexuals
Boy Scouts vs. homosexuals

...."ultimately it may be a test of our most basic religious freedoms to teach what we know our Father in Heaven wants us to teach"

Let me get this logic. If other people have rights, rights that do not effect anyone in your church in any way, that does not impair their right to marry, to speak, or do anything else, that impairs YOUR religious freedom? What do you think it does to our religious freedom if you prohibit US from marrying?

 

[Autodidact]

families are eternal treasures in heaven. Anything that would rob someone of their eternal family is a horror.

Please explain exactly whose eternal family I am robbing by getting married. [good demonstration, though, of how bizarre religious beliefs negatively impact other people's rights, thanks.]

 

[idea]

Please explain exactly whose eternal family I am robbing by getting married. [good demonstration, though, of how bizarre religious beliefs negatively impact other people's rights, thanks.]

if you decide to marry someone of the same sex, you are robbing yourself of your own eternal family.

 

[Autodidact]

if you decide to marry someone of the same sex, you are robbing yourself of your own eternal family.

So it's your job to force Mormon doctrine on non-Mormons then? Maybe you're right; Mormons do need to lose their freedom of religion. Apparently it includes violations of our American system of government.

 

[gnomon]

if you decide to marry someone of the same sex, you are robbing yourself of your own eternal family.

And that's their decision to make. Not the LDS to make for them.

edit: For those who actually believe that they are being robbed of their own eternal family.

double edit: And given my response to Watchmen on Oaks' statement regarding eternal life and marriage is not the case that some LDS leaders believe that marriage is not an absolute necessity for eternal life?

triple edit: Don't eat at Joe's.

 

[Autodidact]

idea: Just as certain as you are of your peculiar belief system, I am equally certain you are wrong, wrong wrong. I know (just as you do) that you are wasting your life, your money and your future on behalf of the Mormon Church, and that you are wearing very silly underwear. The difference is that I strongly defend your right to do so, while you attack my equivalent right. That makes me American, and you anti-American, me tolerant, and you bigoted, me in favor of freedom of religion, and you against it.

You have the right to believe all that weird and silly stuff. You do not have the right to make me conform to it. Please stop; it's immoral, un-American and wrong.

 

[Katzpur]

if you decide to marry someone of the same sex, you are robbing yourself of your own eternal family.

Idea, according to LDS doctrine, if a person is physically intimate with someone of the same sex, he is robbing himself of his own eternal family. How does marriage compound this "robbery"?

 

[Storm]

we are fighting for religious freedom.

Bull. You're fighting against the religious freedom of those who don't share your bigotry.

 

[Autodidact]

Idea, according to LDS doctrine, if a person is physically intimate with someone of the same sex, he is robbing himself of his own eternal family. How does marriage compound this "robbery"?

Why is it that Christians are so anti-love?

 

[Autodidact]

idea: Can you present a single case of any religion in America not being allowed to teach whatever it wants about homosexuality? If so, please do so. If not, please stop telling lies; it's unseemly. It also makes you a terrible representative for your religion.

 

[idea]

I strongly defend your right to do so,

how would you have ruled if you were the judge in the following?

Do you think eharmony should be forced to provide services for SS couples? Do you think that doctors should be forced to do things against their beliefs? Do you believe that pastors and teachers have the right to preach whatever they will in church? Do you believe that adoption agencies have the right to deny SS couples children? Do you believe that wedding photographers have the right to photograph who and what they may? How would you have ruled in these cases? Just curious. I suspect that in fact you would not defend our rights, just a hunch, I could be wrong.

here are some issues:
eHarmony.com sued for excluding homosexuals
eHarmony.com sued for excluding homosexuals

Moonbattery: Christians Sued for Not Participating in Homosexual Ceremony
Christians Sued for Not Participating in Homosexual Ceremony

Lesbian Sues Christian Doctor Over Refusal to Inseminate
Lesbian Sues Christian Doctor Over Refusal to Inseminate
Religious rights? Not for doctors

View Press Release
Pastor Sued For Alleged Hate Speech

Catholic Adoption Agency Will Close Before Giving Children to Homosexual Parents, Bishop States
Catholic Adoption Agency Will Close Before Giving Children to Homosexual Parents

Boy Scouts vs. homosexuals
Boy Scouts vs. homosexuals

 

[Katzpur]

I'll give the leadership credit on that one, but apparently not all of the members have gotten the memo.

I don't think it's really fear of repercussion that is the issue. I think it's a lack of self-confidence, a lack of trust in one's own ability to make a decision without being told what to do. Contrary to what some members of the Church believe, our leadership actually encourage us to make all of our decisions on questions of this sort a matter of prayer and personal conscience. Some people just seem to think that they can't be "a good Mormon" unless they agree with Church leadership on every conceivable issue, whether it be social, cultural or political. I never hear any of them say that they came to their decision by studying the issues, thoughtfully considering these issues and praying about them. Maybe it's just that that's not what I hear them say, but it does appear that they make their "decisions" based on what they think "a good Mormon" would do. Well, "good Mormons" are not all alike.

 

[idea]

Idea, according to LDS doctrine, if a person is physically intimate with someone of the same sex, he is robbing himself of his own eternal family. How does marriage compound this "robbery"?

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 124:24)
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be aone flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is aone spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your abody is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your cown?
20 For ye are abought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 6:15 - 20)

about how the HG will not dwell in unclean flesh?

It shall be holy, or the Lord your God will not dwell therein.
(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 124:24)

How can someone progress, learn anything, come to Christ, without the Holy Spirit? They totally cut themselves off to everything - not just their family - they cut themselves off from the Holy Ghost. They rob themselves of everything... If you love them, how can you sit back not saying anything while they are led down such a destructive path?

 

[Storm]

idea, stop pretending to love us. It's insulting.

 

[ayani]

How can someone progress, learn anything, come to Christ, without the Holy Spirit?

i was under the impression that it's faith in Christ which gives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and after that spiritual growth.

 

[gnomon]

idea,

Posting contentious cases regarding public accommodation laws and religious freedom is irrelevant. The LDS Church had established their position prior to these laws and one of them is not even applicable to U.S. law as it takes place outside the United States.

Nor have I read any statement from prominent leaders that I have already mentioned in this thread stating that such cases or their possibility inform the decision of the Church to fund campaigns opposing same sex marriage.

 

[idea]

I know (just as you do) that you are wasting your life, your money and your future on behalf of the Mormon Church,

Before I joined the Mormon church I was on drugs, in an abusive relashonship, in trouble with the law, ... I will not go into all of the painful details.

Now that I am a member, I have a PhD, a beautiful family, I no longer want to kill myself, my health is wonderful, I am happy.

The Mormon church has not wasted my life - it has saved me.

 

[idea]

it takes place outside the United States.

I was pretty sure that NM is in the US... I was also pretty sure that the boy scouts are in the US...

The state of New Mexico has ordered a family owned photography company to pay more than $6,600 for declining a demand to take pictures at a same-sex ceremony, and a lawyer who is working on an appeal says it is an example of how "non-discrimination" or "hate" laws can be weapons in the hands of homosexual activists.​

Each of the cases listed is in the US except the preacher/Sweeden case.

These cases are relevant.

 

[idea]

public accommodation laws

you think these are public accommodation laws? The adoption agency was a private entity. The photographer - a private business, the boy scouts, privately owned and operated, I am pretty sure the doctor was not working for the gov... These are intrusions on the private sector.