Why Did The Mormon Church Become Involved In The Proposition 8 Battle?

[idea]

i was under the impression that it's faith in Christ which gives the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and after that spiritual growth.

3 no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 12:3)

The HG comes before faith in Christ. It is only through the Holy Ghost that everything becomes real. Without the HG it is just words, lectures, pictures - it is not real.

 

[Storm]

Before I joined the Mormon church I was on drugs, in an abusive relashonship, in trouble with the law, ... I will not go into all of the painful details.

Now that I am a member, I have a PhD, a beautiful family, I no longer want to kill myself, my health is wonderful, I am happy.

The Mormon church has not wasted my life - it has saved me.

No wonder you want to force it on everybody else. Problem is, you can't.

 

[idea]

idea, stop pretending to love us.

To the immature, others are not real... please stop pretending you know who I am.

 

[gnomon]

I was pretty sure that NM is in the US... I was also pretty sure that the boy scouts are in the US...

The state of New Mexico has ordered a family owned photography company to pay more than $6,600 for declining a demand to take pictures at a same-sex ceremony, and a lawyer who is working on an appeal says it is an example of how "non-discrimination" or "hate" laws can be weapons in the hands of homosexual activists.​

Each of the cases listed is in the US except the preacher/Sweeden case.

These cases are relevant.

They are not relevant at all to the question of why the Mormon Church became involved in Prop 8. The stance of the Church and it's involvement in these campaigns predates all those cases. Only the Boy Scout case predates active participation but that case also predates the time when same sex marriage began as a prominent issue in the United States.

We are discussing the foundation of the Church's position.

Even better, all the cases you list do not involve changing anyone's religious beliefs nor stopping them from exercising their freedom of conscience. They involve cases of public accommodation and how religious institutions engage themselves with the public in areas of secular and business practices.

However, the Church is engaging in sociological discrimination against homosexuals, and others as well, by helping to inject language into State legislation and constitutions promoting their religious view.

you think these are public accommodation laws? The adoption agency was a private entity. The photographer - a private business, the boy scouts, privately owned and operated, I am pretty sure the doctor was not working for the gov... These are intrusions on the private sector.

I don't think I know. Public accommodation laws do not involve simply government employees. They are concerned with discrimination statues and private businesses whose work accommodate the public!

 

[idea]

No wonder you want to force it on everybody else. Problem is, you can't.

Nothing can be forced on anyone.

 

[Storm]

To the immature, others are not real... please stop pretending you know who I am.

I know what you say, that's more than enough. Oh, and the hypocrisy of calling me immature even as you whine about how I'm "pretending" to know you is truly astounding.

 

[Katzpur]

Why is it that Christians are so anti-love?

Why ask me?

And what's your excuse? I've never given you a single reason to dislike me and yet when you are marginally civil towards me, I find myself wondering if maybe you think you're actually talking to someone else. I know a lot of atheists on this forum who actually like me. Should I group them all together and whine about how they are so hateful?

 

[Storm]

Nothing can be forced on anyone.

Good, the first step is admission. Now just stop trying.

 

[idea]

They are not relevant at all to the question of why the Mormon Church became involved in Prop 8.

This is why the LDS church got involved.

PUBLIC AFFAIRS: At the outset, can you explain why this whole issue of homosexuality and same-gender marriage is important to the Church?

ELDER OAKS: This is much bigger than just a question of whether or not society should be more tolerant of the homosexual lifestyle. Over past years we have seen unrelenting pressure from advocates of that lifestyle to accept as normal what is not normal, and to characterize those who disagree as narrow-minded, bigoted and unreasonable. Such advocates are quick to demand freedom of speech and thought for themselves, but equally quick to criticize those with a different view and, if possible, to silence them by applying labels like “homophobic.” In at least one country where homosexual activists have won major concessions, we have even seen a church pastor threatened with prison for preaching from the pulpit that homosexual behavior is sinful. Given these trends, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints must take a stand on doctrine and principle. This is more than a social issue — ultimately it may be a test of our most basic religious freedoms to teach what we know our Father in Heaven wants us to teach.

 

[Katzpur]

about how the HG will not dwell in unclean flesh?

It shall be holy, or the Lord your God will not dwell therein.

That is not in any way, shape or form an answer to my question.

How can someone progress, learn anything, come to Christ, without the Holy Spirit? They totally cut themselves off to everything - not just their family - they cut themselves off from the Holy Ghost. They rob themselves of everything... If you love them, how can you sit back not saying anything while they are led down such a destructive path?

I don't think you read anything I wrote, idea. Please don't just quote more scripture. Read what I wrote, think about it and respond from your heart.

 

[idea]

Now just stop trying.

13 If thou wilt ...hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved ...(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 6:13)


would you ever stop trying to help those around you?

 

[Storm]

An example of what idea apparently confuses for love:
Sorry, I will re-clarify. This is a thread for those who consider SS an abomination and wish to collect resources to help rid society and individuals of this degrading/demeaning practice. To those who believe that their bodies are a temple, and want to keep themselves pure from all unholy practices.

For those who suffer from this SS attraction, I feel sorry for you, I really do. We all have our trials in life, we all have things to overcome. I refuse to remain silent and enable people to wallow in their filth though. When you see others with problems that will cripple them in life conscientious people should do all they can to help teach and guide to a better way of life. If you see an alcoholic, no matter how much they like their booze, to condone their actions is to hurt them and everyone around them.

 

[idea]

I don't think you read anything I said, idea. Did I ever imply that I condone homosexual relations?

"In order for evil' to prevail, all that need happen is for good' people to do nothing"

silence is a form of acceptance.

 

[Storm]

would you ever stop trying to help those around you?

If they don't want my help, yeah. If my "help" is calling them abominations and campaigning against their equality, I'd expect a pop in the mouth.

 

[idea]

An example of what idea apparently confuses for love:
Sorry, I will re-clarify. This is a thread for those who consider SS an abomination and wish to collect resources to help rid society and individuals of this degrading/demeaning practice. To those who believe that their bodies are a temple, and want to keep themselves pure from all unholy practices.

For those who suffer from this SS attraction, I feel sorry for you, I really do. We all have our trials in life, we all have things to overcome. I refuse to remain silent and enable people to wallow in their filth though. When you see others with problems that will cripple them in life conscientious people should do all they can to help teach and guide to a better way of life. If you see an alcoholic, no matter how much they like their booze, to condone their actions is to hurt them and everyone around them.

How do you define love? Is it loving to enable someone to harm themselves?

 

[ayani]

3 no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians12:3)

The HG comes before faith in Christ. It is only through the Holy Ghost that everything becomes real. Without the HG it is just words, lectures, pictures - it is not real.

actually, i would argue it is only through Jesus that everything becomes real. faith in God's Son and the indwelling (giving) of the Holy Spirit can and do occur at the same time. it's Jesus' name which saves a person, and Jesus' sacrifice and living power to save which accomplishes this, too.

anyone can call on a dead saint or martyr for help and protection. but what makes Christ unique is that He is alive, able to do all things, and Someone one can know and call upon, and Who is alive and ready to answer with real help. without Jesus, there would be no Holy Spirit to send, in the Christian context. according to the Gospels, Acts, and the Epistles, the Spirit is given by Christ, not the other way around.

 

[idea]

If they don't want my help, yeah. If my "help" is calling them abominations and campaigning against their equality, I'd expect a pop in the mouth.

I did not call any person an abomination, I called certain actions an abomination.

 

[ayani]

How do you define love? Is it loving to enable someone to harm themselves?

idea. gay men and women don't see it as self-harm. they see it as a right.

Mormon doctrine may say otherwise, but forcing the ramifications of Mormon doctrine on others by trying to change national legislation isn't right.

and it doesn't make any sense, either.

 

[Storm]

How do you define love?

Well, at an absolute minimum, it takes the form of compassion. How do you define hate? Because that's sure as hell all I see in your "love."

Is it loving to enable someone to harm themselves?

What harm? I am not harmed by my sexuality, only your superstition.

 

[Katzpur]

I did not call any person an abomination, I called certain actions an abomination.

And you apparently think these abominations will stop if the people involved are denied their civil rights. Could you explain why?