why did they want to crucify jesus

[Saint Frankenstein]

As you like friend, but I suggest if you have time, you would watch this [youtube]rPR48pP8Tbk[/youtube]
video

It is long. It is like 1 hour. i hope you would keep it so you would watch it later if you felt like.

The speaker here is addressing important things in Christisnity and Islam. He was not a muslim yet in the video, but he was planning to study the Quraan and he explained sime important points in the bible itself.


Just keep the reference in case.

Maybe. I'm not particularly interested in watching Islamic proselytization videos.

 

[Sabour]

The first question would be" is it understandable by all of God's children."

The simple answer to that question is "No". Even Muslims don't understand it. That's why I live in a world with the nice Muslims up the road, the Saudi family of kings, Boko haram, RedCrescent, Taliban, and you.

Then there is the large majority of humans who don't even understand the language Islam limits God's message to.

Tom

This is a sentence that I have repeated too often on this thread and it does make me sad to say it.

Not all muslims are muslims. Some are just born to it and represent it without being adherents in the first place.

Bad people exist everywhere. There is bad muslims and there are good muslims. One of the major differences is that one isnt a practicing muslims and the other group is.

Being born a muslim doesn't automatically give you a ticket to paradise for Islam is about faith and works side by side, it is not about faith only.

 

[Sabour]

Maybe. I'm not particularly interested in watching Islamic proselytization videos.

It is no where near proselytization or however they write that word

At the first parts at addresses some christian concepts and than some Islamic misconceptions.

But anyways, as you like.

 

[columbus]

This is a sentence that I have repeated too often on this thread and it does make me sad to say it.

Not all muslims are muslims. Some are just born to it and represent it without being adherents in the first place.

Bad people exist everywhere. There is bad muslims and there are good muslims. One of the major differences is that one isnt a practicing muslims and the other group is.

Being born a muslim doesn't automatically give you a ticket to paradise for Islam is about faith and works side by side, it is not about faith only.

I answered your question and you ignored it. Why would I believe you about the Quran?

Tom

 

[Sabour]

I answered your question and you ignored it. Why would I believe you about the Quran?

Tom

I answered you in comment 291

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3801080-post291.html

I was worried you took it offensively and was wondering why didnt you answer lol.

If You think I missed answering your question tell me

 

[columbus]

I answered you in comment 291

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3801080-post291.html

I was worried you took it offensively and was wondering why didnt you answer lol.

If You think I missed answering your question tell me

To be honest, you misrepresented me and made me a little angry. But it's hard to respond to such a long post on my little mobile. I need to go to a better computer to do that. But I believe that you are sincere and I didn't want to do it as badly as last evening when I posted a complete disaster and then my reception went out:sorry1:

You wrote a lot of things about me that I just don't believe. My opinion about Islam hasn't changed much in years, and I never said you don't believe in anything. I'm quite sure you misunderstood something I did say. I'll try to pick one or two things and respond today or tomorrow.

But you might consider this: You have never given me a reason to believe what you do about Islam. You just say that you do, which I already know. Why should I believe that? I don't much trust human sources. Why should I trust humans like you or Muhammad?

Tom

 

[Sabour]

To be honest, you misrepresented me and made me a little angry. But it's hard to respond to such a long post on my little mobile. I need to go to a better computer to do that. But I believe that you are sincere and I didn't want to do it as badly as last evening when I posted a complete disaster and then my reception went out:sorry1:

Well sorry for that,I think I am mistaken between you and someone else.

You wrote a lot of things about me that I just don't believe. My opinion about Islam hasn't changed much in years, and I never said you don't believe in anything. I'm quite sure you misunderstood something I did say. I'll try to pick one or two things and respond today or tomorrow.

Again, sorry.

But you might consider this: You have never given me a reason to believe what you do about Islam. You just say that you do, which I already know. Why should I believe that? I don't much trust human sources. Why should I trust humans like you or Muhammad?

I am clueless of how I am supposed to answer that.

I think I can start with this video, actually I dont know much it would answer your question.
[youtube]7d16CpWp-ok[/youtube]
THE MEANING OF LIFE | MUSLIM SPOKEN WORD | HD - YouTube

Also I think it all come ps down to the proof of Islam which is the Quraan, by testing it
By test I mean an approach you would initiate to know if a book is written by man. A simple approach is for example scientific approach. Another is searching for contradictions approach. Another is studying the theology. Another is studying biography of Muhammad peace be upon him and see if he was actually a prophet.

 

[Ken Brown]

He did not predict it, he prayed to be saved from it.

Shalom One-answer, how do you explain these verses IF He did not predict it:

Mt 20:17 - 20:19
(17) And Yeshua going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
(18) Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
(19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

Doesn't "to crucify" mean that Yeshua was predicting they would crucify Him? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

 

[columbus]

I am clueless of how I am supposed to answer that.

There isn't an answer from a fallible human. God knows what the answer is, but there is no God who cares enough to give it.

That is a pointblank truth. A fact. Like most humans for all of history, I do not find your belief about God convincing. And your belief that God was unable to properly tell even one person what He meant prior to Muhammad makes me uninclined to believe you, since you believe the humans who told you that.

I'd believe anything God told me. You, the pope, Obama, Assad, revoltingest, I want to hear something directly from God not you people.

But that never happens.

Tom

 

[Sabour]

There isn't an answer from a fallible human. God knows what the answer is, but there is no God who cares enough to give it.

That is a pointblank truth. A fact. Like most humans for all of history, I do not find your belief about God convincing. And your belief that God was unable to properly tell even one person what He meant prior to Muhammad makes me uninclined to believe you, since you believe the humans who told you that.

I'd believe anything God told me. You, the pope, Obama, Assad, revoltingest, I want to hear something directly from God not you people.

But that never happens.

Tom

That is what I meant. I cant tell you or convince you if what I believe, I can present to you the proof, that is the Quraan.

Read the Quraan. It is the word of God. Do your test to see if it is or not.

You are demanding that God talk to you and I am telling you that the Quraan is the word of God, so see if Gd would talk to you through Quraan.


And I have to repeat, Muhammad peace be upon him was last prophet and Quraan was final revelation. So there were muslims before Muhammad peace be upon him. There are like 124000 prophets which shared the message of Islam on this earth out of which we only know 25. Adam also was a muslim, the first man who stepped foot on earth.

 

[Sabour]

Shalom One-answer, how do you explain these verses IF He did not predict it:

Mt 20:17 - 20:19
(17) And Yeshua going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
(18) Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
(19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

Doesn't "to crucify" mean that Yeshua was predicting they would crucify Him? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

There is a difference between prediction and knowing. That is I am addressing the word crucify in the verse only.

 

[outhouse]

If you are so sure start a thread

No you made a claim, now back it.

 

[outhouse]

I am not avoiding the question, but different people have different approaches to evaluate things.

Sure you are.

You even admit your avoiding it.


There are many historical errors in your books, can your god read and write, or did man write all those books?

 

[columbus]

That is what I meant. I cant tell you or convince you if what I believe, I can present to you the proof, that is the Quraan.

Read the Quraan. It is the word of God. Do your test to see if it is or not.

You are demanding that God talk to you and I am telling you that the Quraan is the word of God, so see if Gd would talk to you through Quraan.


And I have to repeat, Muhammad peace be upon him was last prophet and Quraan was final revelation. So there were muslims before Muhammad peace be upon him. There are like 124000 prophets which shared the message of Islam on this earth out of which we only know 25. Adam also was a muslim, the first man who stepped foot on earth.

Hey friend,
You still aren't giving me an answer to my response. Why should I believe you?

You asked what evidence it would take to convince me there is a God. I told you, a scripture or any message from God that isn't some human telling me what God wants me to know.
But there isn't any. You keep telling me I should believe the human you believe in, but you never give me a reason.

You are doing what everyone else my whole life has done. Told me what you believe, but not give me a reason to believe it.

Tom

 

[Ken Brown]

There is a difference between prediction and knowing. That is I am addressing the word crucify in the verse only.

Shalom One-answer, so, your stance is that Yeshua never predicted that He would be crucified because there is a "difference between prediction and knowing," and that the word "crucify," doesn't mean what it means? So what does the word "crucify" mean? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[metis]

If we view all scripture as subjective than we can't figure anything out.

When dealing with ancient history, especially coming from subjective sources, there's very little one can say with absolute certainty. But then history is history and we live today.

 

[paarsurrey]

Shalom One-answer, how do you explain these verses IF He did not predict it:

Mt 20:17 - 20:19
(17) And Yeshua going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
(18) Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
(19) And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

Doesn't "to crucify" mean that Yeshua was predicting they would crucify Him? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

That doesn't mean that Jesus was to die on the Cross for sure?
Not all persons who have been put on the Cross have died?

Regards

P.S. Jews (of the time of Jesus) wanted to kill Jesus to prove him a false prophet/messenger of the One-True-God; and they utterly failed to kill him.

Regards

 

[Sleeppy]

That doesn't mean that Jesus was to die on the Cross for sure?
Not all persons who have been put on the Cross have died?

Regards

P.S. Jews (of the time of Jesus) wanted to kill Jesus to prove him a false prophet/messenger of the One-True-God; and they utterly failed to kill him.

Regards

Prophets are killed by the second, everyday. A prophet is not made false because he is killed. The Messiah named John the Baptist the greatest prophet born of a woman- and John was beheaded!

 

[metis]

P.S. Jews (of the time of Jesus) wanted to kill Jesus to prove him a false prophet/messenger of the One-True-God; and they utterly failed to kill him.

Regards

That's quite an assumption, especially since we know there were many who claimed to be the Messiah, for example, that were never executed by us or anyone else. There would be reason and time for the early church to demonize Jews to justify the split, so it should come as no surprise that at least some of what's written maybe shouldn't be taken literally. Even many Christian theologians hypothesize that problems attracting Jewish converts may have been the single biggest motivation to try and convert gentiles.

 

[outhouse]

P.S. Jews (of the time of Jesus) wanted to kill Jesus to prove him a false prophet/messenger of the One-True-God; and they utterly failed to kill him.

That is apologetics not history.

Religion and history are not the same.


When the gospels were being written, this new movement wanted to be viewed differently then Jews. Jerusalem had just fallen and this group of people did not want to be identified as trouble makers to the Romans.

The books were written to and for a Roman audience, so your not going to create books slamming Romans making them look like the bad guys.