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Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
Jesus fulfilled the prophecy of having a forerunner, being rejected by Israel, and being the Messiah and God. Malachi is written as God saying that the Messiah would prepare a way for him.
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Those were prophecies that were reinterpreted by Christians. They were not the Messianic prophesies.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
Substitutionary Atonement is not the only (or best) theological construction of salvation.
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God does everything with an order and a purpose. Why would Jesus have died for our iniquities if not to take our place? Jesus is the judge who took the place of the person who committed a crime.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
God does everything with an order and a purpose. Why would Jesus have died for our iniquities if not to take our place? Jesus is the judge who took the place of the person who committed a crime.
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You still do not seem to understand that if God is omnipotent and omniscient that Jesus did not have to take our place. In fact if God was just Jesus would not have had to take our place.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
1) Sin has little to do with being criminal
2) God’s justice is not modeled on our penal system
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Sin is anything that doesn't show respect for oneself and others.

The need for law comes from God. God is not the author of confusion and gave is a need for order and morality.
 
Batya

Batya

Always Forward
Subduction Zone said:
You still do not seem to understand that if God is omnipotent and omniscient that Jesus did not have to take our place. In fact if God was just Jesus would not have had to take our place.
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Why is it a contradiction for God to be both omnipotent and omniscient and still have Jesus to take our place? It was in complete keeping with God's justice for him to die for our redemption. That had to happen according to the old testament.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Batya said:
Why is it a contradiction for God to be both omnipotent and omniscient and still have Jesus to take our place? It was in complete keeping with God's justice for him to die for our redemption. That had to happen according to the old testament.
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Because if God is omnipotent and omniscient there is no need for a false suffering. By the way, if Jesus is God then yes, it is a false suffering. If Jesus was a man what did it accomplish?
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Batya said:
I have a feeling that even if God had left a huge amount of secular evidence for Jesus, lots of people would still come up with reasons not to believe him. It was human logic that caused man's rejection of God in the first place.
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Not me. I dumped the Christian faith after 60 years in because there was absolutely NO evidence to sustain it--no evidence for Jesus, no evidence for the apostles, no evidence for Paul, no evidence for his crucifixion or resurrection. Even the tomb doesn't exist. Surely the apostles would have made it a holy site if Jesus had really risen. I'm not one of these gullibles who falls for "You have to accept on faith". I want proof if I'm going to believe in something and I think God understands the sentiment perfectly. However, if irrefutable evidence emerged that Jesus Christ was real I'd gladly return to the faith.
 
Batya

Batya

Always Forward
Subduction Zone said:
Because if God is omnipotent and omniscient there is no need for a false suffering. By the way, if Jesus is God then yes, it is a false suffering. If Jesus was a man what did it accomplish?
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It was not because God was "needy" that Jesus died, it was because of his own word. God made a covenant with Abraham in which he promised that he would bear the penalty for Israel's infidelity, if you have any understanding of how ancient covenants worked. It was in order that we're might be reconciled and again be partakers of that covenant.
 
SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
Even a good man or prophet could not pay the price for our sins.
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There's no price to pay for our sins. God is God. He doesn't need payment of anything to forgive. He demands us to forgive without payment. Why can't He do the same thing? Far as I'm concerned there's no such thing as sin anyway. There's just good actions and bad actions that are determined by whether they hurt or help.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
You still do not seem to understand that if God is omnipotent and omniscient that Jesus did not have to take our place. In fact if God was just Jesus would not have had to take our place.
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It's similar to how God is omnipotent and omniscient but he cannot make people not sin.

Jesus died so God could forgive us and still be just.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Because if God is omnipotent and omniscient there is no need for a false suffering. By the way, if Jesus is God then yes, it is a false suffering. If Jesus was a man what did it accomplish?
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Jesus sweat blood before he went to the cross. How is that a false suffering?

Jesus could not have died for our sins if he was a man.
 
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