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Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Skywalker said:
The Gospel of Thomas was not written by Thomas. There is more evidence the four gospels were written by their authors than the Gospel of Thomas was written by Thomas. Is The Gospel Of Thomas Authentic? | Reasons for Jesus
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Why do you keep bringing up red herrings?

Do you realize that by using a bogus source you just claimed that there is more evidence that the Gospel of Thomas was written by Thomas than the other gospels were written by their claimed authors?
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Why do you keep bringing up red herrings?

Do you realize that by using a bogus source you just claimed that there is more evidence that the Gospel of Thomas was written by Thomas than the other gospels were written by their claimed authors?
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The Gospel of Thomas was written later than the canonical gospels.

Is The Gospel Of Thomas Authentic? | Reasons for Jesus

I believe that for these several reasons it shouldn’t be seen that the GT is of equal, or of more, value to our canonicals. A persuasive case dates that GT after the 1st century which is considerably later than our canonical gospels. It is furthermore apparent that it is dependent on content found within Luke and Matthew as well as later Syriac translations. The GT also lacks traces of actual historical data that we find within the canonicals.
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SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Alcmene WAS a virgin.

His mother, Alcmene, is (1) a royal virgin, and his father is (2) King Amphitryon, who is (3) her first cousin.
https://department.monm.edu/classics/Courses/Clas230/MythDocuments/HeroPattern/Heracles.htm
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To continue, Hercules presents a perfect example for the gospel writers to emulate. His father is a Jupiter, his mother is a virgin impregnated by a god and Hercules is born a demi-god. In the earlier versions of the gospels Jesus was also a demi-god--not quite a god like the Father. In John the writers decide to make Jesus a full god. This is the growth pattern I was speaking of where as a legend grows the status of the subject person grows along with it. Jesus: prophet, then demi-god and finally god.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
To continue, Hercules presents a perfect example for the gospel writers to emulate. His father is a Jupiter, his mother is a virgin impregnated by a god and Hercules is born a demi-god. In the earlier versions of the gospels Jesus was also a demi-god--not quite a god like the Father. In John the writers decide to make Jesus a full god. This is the growth pattern I was speaking of where as a legend grows the status of the subject person grows along with it. Jesus: prophet, then demi-god and finally god.
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Jesus is not a demigod because he has the nature of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not a demigod - Gentle Wisdom

According to Greek mythology, Heracles (the Latin Hercules) was the son of a god, Zeus, and a human mother. This made him in some sense a demigod, a person who was partly divine and partly human.

Orthodox Christian theology has decisively rejected the idea that Jesus Christ is a demigod in this sense. At the Council of Chalcedon in 451 a definition of the faith was agreed with the following words about the two natures of Christ:

one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ
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R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If bushes burnt who hears the speaking voice?

A human.

Reason to hear. Human reason.

Brain irradiation effect. The cause burning bush. Ground radiation effect.

Reason sink holes ground radiation effect.

Original sin of the body God Satan O mass planet earth before it became God

A satanist liar brother says Satan is God and Satan was before God.

Science said Satan was a God angel.

Fell out of cloud mass.

Jesus man image was with the angels presence in clouds.

Ground sin removal origin...God gone...Satan gone. Just a hole space left.

The teaching Satan went to hell. Makes Satan not hell and hell not God not Satan.

So not man. Not God. Not Satan.

For a human it was the lie.

A lie about points.

N he said is part of the cross+
NSEW.

Alien cause. Spatial radiation that burns holes in body one

Satan and God in body of one.

The lying state a lie n.

Artificial cause.

God in natural law did not invent plastic.

Change forced produces artificial effects.

Is not. Never was natural history.

The advice what is a relative.

Aliens are not relative.

Aliens not our relative.

Relatives also never the self. Are a secondary inference about the first...human.
 
R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Dire straits the walk of life.

Psyche proves feedback about Jesus. Knives symbolism in Kabbalah about Christ. Woman..tunnels. maths science fake female causes concepts To be expressed.

Without knowing original symbolism as occult inferences.

Lots of songs express that human condition. To be affected subliminally.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Jesus WAS a demi-god in Matthew and Luke before John promoted him to full godhood. That's a Biblical fact that is plain on its face. Jesus NEVER called himself god in Matthew and Luke. Find me one instance where he did. In John it says, "And the Word WAS God".
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Demigods are not fully God and fully man. They are the descendants of unions between gods and humans.

Jesus is not a demigod - Gentle Wisdom

Jesus is not half divine and half human, but fully God and fully man, without any kind of confusion or change in the natures, while also being one person.

While this definition does not explicitly rule out the idea that God the Father or the Holy Spirit took the role of a human father in the conception of Jesus, it certainly makes it more difficult to hold. Christians have often been accused of believing that Jesus is the product of a sexual union between God and Mary, but this has never been orthodox belief.
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SeekingAllTruth

SeekingAllTruth

Well-Known Member
Skywalker said:
Demigods are not fully God and fully man. They are the descendants of unions between gods and humans.

Jesus is not a demigod - Gentle Wisdom
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Jesus is a product of a mortal woman and the Holy Spirit. By definition he IS a demi-god. But the writers of John made Jesus into a full god. I mean you can see that, can't you? I'll ask again:

Can you find me one scripture in Matthew, Mark or Luke where the text says "Jesus is god"?

If you can't then Jesus is a demi-god.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Jesus is a product of a mortal woman and the Holy Spirit. By definition he IS a demi-god. But the writers of John made Jesus into a full god. I mean you can see that, can't you? I'll ask again:

Can you find me one scripture in Matthew, Mark or Luke where the text says "Jesus is god"?

If you can't then Jesus is a demi-god.
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Jesus didn't directly say he was God because he didn't want to be confused with God the Father. Answering Muslims: Where Did Jesus Say, "I Am God, Worship Me"?

Mark 2:5-7—And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?”The scribes correctly recognized that only God can forgive sins. Yet Jesus (who referred to himself as the “Son of Man”), knowing their thoughts, replied that “the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” (Mark 2:10). He then healed the paralytic, proving that his claims were true.
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R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Humans.
Humans as humans.
First origin self discussing humans.

To tell a truth one self.

Imagine you stand alone. What information...to think is real for one human self.

Not anything said.

Science human thought is artificial.

First is a human not named.

Status to teach information with descriptions.

One self.

Is one self just talking about one self as a thinker.

As everyone is one owning one life?
No other human in review one...hence Jesus was not talking about one man.

For the fact the story owned lots of man selves in a thinking to discuss.

Discuss Sion.

Sion. Mountain top fusion. Pyramid. Mountain top to flat top UFO conversion.

Mountain tips God mass do not self convert.

Obvious information not being taught or discussed.

Did the pyramid convert like a mountain,?

No.

Therefore the theory about mountain top is fake.

Why you seemingly cannot understand...as the origin thinker lied.
 
S

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
SeekingAllTruth said:
Where does it say that in the gospels?
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The Bible mentions Jesus talking and acting with the power and authority of God and was also called with the names of God. Revisiting “Where Did Jesus Say ‘I am God’” – A Response to the Muhammedan Site “Do Not Say Trinity”

The problem is that if Jesus were to come out and say “I am God” without clearly and forcefully establishing his personal distinction from the Father, and His deity in relation to that fact, people would think He was claiming to be the same person as the Father. This is because God was used primarily in reference to the Father and virtually served as His proper name. In other words, to come out and say “I am God” instead of first establishing His distinction from the Father, would lead His followers into thinking He was making himself out to be the Father in heaven.(1) This is why Jesus didn’t just walk around saying “I am God” as the Muslims demand.

Thus, Jesus needed to communicate His deity in such a way that His audience would know that He wasn’t claiming to be the Father, even though He was claiming to be God. In light of this, there was no better way for Jesus to affirm the fact that He is God then by the way the Gospels report he did, e.g. the unique Son of God and divine Son of Man who is coequal with the Father in essence, and also by applying divine titles and metaphors to Himself.

For instance, Jesus applied an Old Testament title “I Am” to himself, which is significant since he was basically making himself out to be the OT figure known as the Angel of the Lord, the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14! There were many different Jewish strands at that time that already maintained that this figure was God and yet distinct from God.(2) Thus, by using the title “I Am” Jesus was affirming both His deity as well as His distinction from the Father since in the Old Testament “I Am” was applied to both God (cf. Deuteronomy 32:39; Isaiah 43:13) and the Angel of the Lord (cf. Exodus 3:14). One needs to understand intertestimental Jewish thinking in order to understand these issues properly. Without this pre-Christian Jewish backdrop in mind Muslims will be unable to understand why Jesus did what He did and said the things He said.
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R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If a human says I own variations of names.

Are you a human?

Who said a human is a human?

Who said a man human or a woman human?

Who said I will give you a name as a human to be named as a human?

A human if that is our description can only own one name first...

Human.

For any human.

These types of rational reviews brings to your attention that if a God said you are a human that is the only one name you own.

By using words to describe everything. Claiming the word was about God.

Everything therefore would own no other name.
 
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