Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[SeekingAllTruth]

The Bible mentions Jesus talking and acting with the power and authority of God and was also called with the names of God. Revisiting “Where Did Jesus Say ‘I am God’” – A Response to the Muhammedan Site “Do Not Say Trinity”

Now I"m going to give you a perfect example of how the church didn't like certain things said in Mark because it made Jesus appear to weak and not a god. In Mark:

And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick Mark 6:5

The church didn't like that Mark is saying Jesus could do NO.....because it made him sound powerless so they had the writers of Matthew change the wording:

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief Matthew 13:58

This is a perfect example of how writers doctored the writing that came before them. It demonstrates that the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the creation of these artificial works, they were just the products of man's imagination.

 

[Skywalker]

Now I"m going to give you a perfect example of how the church didn't like certain things said in Mark because it made Jesus appear to weak and not a god. In Mark:

And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick Mark 6:5

The church didn't like that Mark is saying Jesus could do NO.....because it made him sound powerless so they had the writers of Matthew change the wording:

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief Matthew 13:58

This is a perfect example of how writers doctored the writing that came before them. It demonstrates that the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the creation of these artificial works, they were just the products of man's imagination.

could the man whose birth defined time and space actually have been crazy? In CS Lewis Mere Christianity, he said for Christ to have talked as He talked, lived as he lived, and died as he died, He was either God or a raging lunatic.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

could the man whose birth defined time and space actually have been crazy? In CS Lewis Mere Christianity, he said for Christ to have talked as He talked, lived as he lived, and died as he died, He was either God or a raging lunatic.

No, he was a Legend.

 

[Skywalker]

No, he was a Legend.

Statistically, there is no way that man can predict the future with 100-percent accuracy Who is the only one who can do this?God. Only God could know the future. The book of MIcah (5:2) tells us that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem-not in Jerusalem, Atlanta, or New York. And Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7). The Book of Zechariah (11:12, 13), says that this Messiah will be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus was betrayed for thirty pieces of silver (Matthew 26:15).

 

[Skywalker]

Actually he was. You used a bogus source again. A more reliable one says:

"In the late 4th century BC, a cult of Attis became a feature of the Greek world. The story of his origins at Agdistis, recorded by the traveler Pausanias, have some distinctly non-Greek elements: Pausanias was told that the daemon Agdistis initially bore both male and female attributes. But the Olympian gods, fearing Agdistis, cut off the male organ and cast it away. There grew up from it an almond-tree, and when its fruit was ripe, Nana, who was a daughter of the river-god Sangarius, picked an almond and laid it in her bosom. The almond disappeared, and she became pregnant. Nana abandoned the baby (Attis). The infant was tended by a he-goat. As Attis grew, his long-haired beauty was godlike, and his mother, Agdistis as Cybele, then fell in love with him. But the foster parents of Attis sent him to Pessinos, where he was to wed the king's daughter. According to some versions the King of Pessinos was Midas. Just as the marriage-song was being sung, Agdistis/Cybele appeared in her transcendent power, and Attis went mad and cut off his genitals. Attis' father-in-law-to-be, the king who was giving his daughter in marriage, followed suit, prefiguring the self-castrating corybantes who devoted themselves to Cybele. But Agdistis repented and saw to it that the body of Attis should neither rot at all nor decay.[7]"

Attis - Wikipedia

Why do you keep using lying sources? If it is a Christian apologist site it is not reliable. I have never seen one that in some form or other does not disqualify themselves by being Liars for Jesus.

The similarities exist. Only the weak in faith find a need to lie about them.

Attis was not born of a virgin because he was a descendant of Zeus. Jesus Vs Attis – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

1. Attis was born on December 25th of the Virgin Nana.
We’ve already talked twice now, with Mithra and Dionysus, about Dec. 25th and why it doesn’t matter – but as gravy, let me add that I have found nowhere any indication that this date was associated with Attis in any way.

That said, what of Attis’ virgin birth? Herodotus records nothing about such a thing; the story alluded to comes much, much later, and rather than being a virgin birth, it is rather another case of Zeus playing the role of dirty old god — albeit this time, much less directly. One story cited makes Cybele Attis’ virgin mother, but this comes from Ovid and perhaps from some statues — it is not the chief story.

As the story goes [Verm.CA, 90-1; VermLAGR, 4, 9], Zeus (as Jupiter) was running around looking for ways to get his jollies and saw Mt. Agdus, which looked liked the goddess Rhea. (Don’t ask how, but I guess if you’re a sexual maniac like Zeus, after a while, it could be that even a mountain looks good.) In the ensuing fracas, Zeus drops some of his seed on the mountain, and from this arises a wild and androgynous creature named Agdistis.

The gods don’t like the obnoxious Agdistis, so Dionysus sneaks up and puts wine in Agdistis’ water to put him to sleep. While he is asleep, Dionysus ties a rope around Agdistis’ genitals, ties the other end of the rope to a tree, yells “Boo!” and — well, you can take it from there.

From the resulting blood, a pomegranate (or almond) tree springs up, and much later, Nana happens by, picks some of the fruit, and puts it in her lap, and then it disappears — upon which, she finds herself pregnant with Attis.

Virgin birth? Kind of. Virgin conception? No. It’s just Grandpa Zeus being the deadbeat dad again. The baby Attis is abandoned, but does end up being raised by goats.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Attis was not born of a virgin because he was a descendant of Zeus. Jesus Vs Attis – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

Why do you keep using bogus sources? Go to a source without an obvious bias that simply tells what people of that time believe. By using sources of those that are weak in faith you only make your own faith look weak. And you can tell that those people are weak in faith since they need to lie to support their beliefs. A person strong in faith finds no need to lie about the past.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Statistically, there is no way that man can predict the future with 100-percent accuracy Who is the only one who can do this?God. Only God could know the future. The book of MIcah (5:2) tells us that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem-not in Jerusalem, Atlanta, or New York. And Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7). The Book of Zechariah (11:12, 13), says that this Messiah will be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus was betrayed for thirty pieces of silver (Matthew 26:15).

But he didn't. We have gone over the failed prophecies of the Bible. Do you want to do so again?

First off Jesus was almost certainly not born in Bethlehem. Luke lied, there is no doubt about that. And it looks like Matthew lied to. They wrote the story to make it look as if the prophecies were fulfilled. Unfortunately when one does that one's story usually gives themselves away.

 

[Skywalker]

And that was written to match the Old Testament. It was not written about an actual event. Did you forget the failure of Luke already?

Rabbis used to wonder if there would be two Messiahs because He was spoken of as both a Suffering Servant, coming to remove the barrier of sin from between people and God, and as a Conquering King, coming to deliver His people from worldly oppression. But they were reading about two visits of the same Messiah. The rabbis also used to wonder if there were going to be three Messiahs, because it is written that He would be born in Bethlehem, that God would call Him out of Egypt, and that He would be called a Nazarene. They couldn't imagine one man fulfilling all three requirements. But Jesus was born in Bethlehem, was taken by his parents into Egypt to escape being murdered by Herod, and lived there until God told Joseph it was OK to return to Israel. Then they went to live in Nazareth, where Jesus grew up and learned and worked until he was thirty.

 

[Skywalker]

Why do you keep using bogus sources? Go to a source without an obvious bias that simply tells what people of that time believe. By using sources of those that are weak in faith you only make your own faith look weak. And you can tell that those people are weak in faith since they need to lie to support their beliefs. A person strong in faith finds no need to lie about the past.

What in the texts of the religion of Attis supports a virgin birth? Herodotus is a historian and he didn't support that the religion of Attis believed he was born of a virgin.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Statistically, there is no way that man can predict the future with 100-percent accuracy Who is the only one who can do this?God. Only God could know the future. The book of MIcah (5:2) tells us that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem-not in Jerusalem, Atlanta, or New York. And Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Luke 2:4-7). The Book of Zechariah (11:12, 13), says that this Messiah will be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus was betrayed for thirty pieces of silver (Matthew 26:15).

There's not a single verse in the Old Testament that mentions Jesus or pertains to him. All those supposed prophecies were unrelated verses taken out of context by the writers of Matthew to build a story of Jesus as the Messiah. I found this:

The misuse and misunderstanding of Christian exegets who confused the translation in 5:1 of a clan with a city. Ephrath was the clan to which the Bethlehemites belonged to, so this also gives us a pretty clear reference to David (who came from this clan), his descendants and the promise of another Davidic King to act as a ruler or shepherd (after "she who is to bear has borne" him) to protect and deliver the people from the threat of Assyria. Further prophecies detail this rulers smashing of Assyria, and all other foes of Israel until the Utopian future has arrived. Well - it seems pretty clear that contextually this passage has absolutely nothing to do with the later birth of Jesus of Nazareth (except in the minds of those skilled in taking verses out of context), who did not destroy the Assyrians and Nimrod - by the way. The Assyrians were destroyed eventually, but by Neo-Babylonian hands; not by a Davidic King. The further language of the oracles point to a fiercely military leader, one who destroys and crushes Israel's foes - hardly in line with later Christian teaching of a "spiritual" victory.

 

[Skywalker]

But he didn't. We have gone over the failed prophecies of the Bible. Do you want to do so again?

First off Jesus was almost certainly not born in Bethlehem. Luke lied, there is no doubt about that. And it looks like Matthew lied to. They wrote the story to make it look as if the prophecies were fulfilled. Unfortunately when one does that one's story usually gives themselves away.

If it was difficult to imagine one man fulfilling only those three requirements of Messiah, imagine contemplating the odds for the 300 prophecies that have come true in Jesus. First, you would have to go down to the neutron, proton, electron level of an atom to get a sample size big enough. There just aren't enough other items in the universe to describe the unlikelihood of this happening. We know it is absolutely impossible of for man to predict the future with 100 percent accuracy. Certainly not to this magnitude. Only God could do that, and He did.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

If it was difficult to imagine one man fulfilling only those three requirements of Messiah, imagine contemplating the odds for the 300 prophecies that have come true in Jesus. First, you would have to go down to the neutron, proton, electron level of an atom to get a sample size big enough. There just aren't enough other items in the universe to describe the unlikelihood of this happening. We know it is absolutely impossible of for man to predict the future with 100 percent accuracy. Certainly not to this magnitude. Only God could do that, and He did.

It's not difficult at all when you consider that all the gospel writers had to do was pick and choose whichever verses they wanted to incorporate into their Jesus story. You the gospel writer. You stumble onto one that says

12 I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty shekels of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

So you say, "Cool. In my story I'll write that my Jesus main character was betrayed for 30 shekels of silver. And where it say, 'Throw it to the potter' I'll write that the betrayer threw it back to the people who bought him off and they bought a field with it."

None of this is in the actual Old Testament verses. There's no betrayer. No Potter's field. Just the Potter in the house of the Lord. How can it be out in a field when the verse clearly says House of the Lord?

You've been hornswoggled, Skywalker.

 

[Skywalker]

It's not difficult at all when you consider that all the gospel writers had to do was pick and choose whichever verses they wanted to incorporate into their Jesus story. You the gospel writer. You stumble onto one that says

12 I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty shekels of silver.

13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

So you say, "Cool. In my story I'll write that my Jesus main character was betrayed for 30 shekels of silver. And where it say, 'Throw it to the potter' I'll write that the betrayer threw it back to the people who bought him off and they bought a field with it."

None of this is in the actual Old Testament verses. There's no betrayer. No Potter's field. Just the Potter in the house of the Lord. How can it be out in a field when the verse clearly says House of the Lord?

You've been hornswoggled, Skywalker.

What evidence is there that they did that? While we don't know that they didn't, we also don't know that they did. All viewpoints involve faith.

 

[sojourner]

Now I"m going to give you a perfect example of how the church didn't like certain things said in Mark because it made Jesus appear to weak and not a god. In Mark:

And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick Mark 6:5

The church didn't like that Mark is saying Jesus could do NO.....because it made him sound powerless so they had the writers of Matthew change the wording:

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief Matthew 13:58

This is a perfect example of how writers doctored the writing that came before them. It demonstrates that the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with the creation of these artificial works, they were just the products of man's imagination.

It’s a theological point in Mark. Jesus becomes more vulnerable the closer he comes to Jerusalem.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If it was difficult to imagine one man fulfilling only those three requirements of Messiah, imagine contemplating the odds for the 300 prophecies that have come true in Jesus. First, you would have to go down to the neutron, proton, electron level of an atom to get a sample size big enough. There just aren't enough other items in the universe to describe the unlikelihood of this happening. We know it is absolutely impossible of for man to predict the future with 100 percent accuracy. Certainly not to this magnitude. Only God could do that, and He did.

You have been lied to. There are not 300 prophecies of Jesus. The vast majority of the so called prophecies are merely examples of quote mining. By that standard you should not believe in God since the Bible says fifteen different times "there is no God".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Rabbis used to wonder if there would be two Messiahs because He was spoken of as both a Suffering Servant, coming to remove the barrier of sin from between people and God, and as a Conquering King, coming to deliver His people from worldly oppression. But they were reading about two visits of the same Messiah. The rabbis also used to wonder if there were going to be three Messiahs, because it is written that He would be born in Bethlehem, that God would call Him out of Egypt, and that He would be called a Nazarene. They couldn't imagine one man fulfilling all three requirements. But Jesus was born in Bethlehem, was taken by his parents into Egypt to escape being murdered by Herod, and lived there until God told Joseph it was OK to return to Israel. Then they went to live in Nazareth, where Jesus grew up and learned and worked until he was thirty.

No, the "suffering servant" was not about Jesus. It was about Israel. And no, Jesus was almost certainly not born in Bethlehem. Why would he have been born there?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What in the texts of the religion of Attis supports a virgin birth? Herodotus is a historian and he didn't support that the religion of Attis believed he was born of a virgin.

I already linked it once for you. The story has a nymph picking up a seed from a tree that was made from a god. She got knocked up by that. That would qualify as a "virgin birth".

 

[Skywalker]

I already linked it once for you. The story has a nymph picking up a seed from a tree that was made from a god. She got knocked up by that. That would qualify as a "virgin birth".

That's not a virgin birth. Talk:Demigod - Wikipedia

Jesus simply does not fit the definition of a demigod, according to this page's own criterion: that of being half god, and half human. According to every major Christian demonimation, Jesus is fully god AND fully human. Jesus is a perfect example of ademigod and the very idea was of course lifted from Greek tradition.

 

[Skywalker]

No, the "suffering servant" was not about Jesus. It was about Israel. And no, Jesus was almost certainly not born in Bethlehem. Why would he have been born there?

Why would the rabbis think that Bethlehem has to do with there being three Messiahs if the Messiah wasn't born in Bethlehem?

 

[Skywalker]

You have been lied to. There are not 300 prophecies of Jesus. The vast majority of the so called prophecies are merely examples of quote mining. By that standard you should not believe in God since the Bible says fifteen different times "there is no God".

The Bible says that the fool says in his heart that there is no God. It never says that expression by itself.