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Why didn't god stop Super Storm Sandy?

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Just askin'.
SOMETIMES-GOD-CALMS-THE-STORM.jpg


What do you think his criteria are?

I don't think that God plays with natural weather events, which is what Sandy was. Sandy wasn't necessarily worse than other storms for certain areas of impact - Coastal Virginia, in example. We didn't exceed some of the records of storm surge that we were anticipating.

New York and New Jersey weren't prepared for the type of flooding that this weather event caused. Sandy was a very big storm but in terms of strength - this was a drop in the barrell compared to other storm events. This could have been MUCH worse and any coastal-residing community should understand that they aren't immune to coastal storms and should prepare for the worst case scenario.

It sucks. It's a ***** to recover from. This is life and this is a reality for coastal communities.

We're still in Hurricane season until the end of the month. This is a normal time of the year for Nor'Easter/Wester type storms as well. New York and Jersey have been fortunate over the years that they haven't received the impact that such storms systems have on coastal areas to the south.
 
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Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Zone A was evacuated, as it was only a Cat 1 at the time of evac. Staten Isanders in Zone A evaced. Zone B and C listened to the mayor and stayed put. All bridges leading out of Staten Island were closed to traffic at 2pm the night before the storm hit. Holland Tunnel, Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel Closing At 2PM Monday For Hurricane Sandy The ferry stopped running at about 4 pm.


We had houses the floated over 1/4 mile from where they started. We still have subway tunnels that are impassible due to the sheer size of the storm surge no one expect. Mile and a half long cars trying to get even 2 gallons of gas.
Most of the dead are dead because they don't know how to act during a hurricane! Because this area doesn't know hurricanes!

I don't know how much more plain this can be.


MTA Service Advisory
Hurricane Evacuation Map
Staten Island NY Local News, Breaking News, Sports & Weather - SILive.com

These people were not stupid for building their houses where they did. They are not familiar with the dangers of hurricanes. They just aren't. Atlantic city and Staten Island are in a sheltered harbor. This means they were ignorant of the situation. Not that they were plain stupid.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Zone A was evacuated, as it was only a Cat 1 at the time of evac. Staten Isanders in Zone A evaced. Zone B and C listened to the mayor and stayed put. All bridges leading out of Staten Island were closed to traffic at 2pm the night before the storm hit. Holland Tunnel, Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel Closing At 2PM Monday For Hurricane Sandy The ferry stopped running at about 4 pm.


We had houses the floated over 1/4 mile from where they started. We still have subway tunnels that are impassible due to the sheer size of the storm surge no one expect. Mile and a half long cars trying to get even 2 gallons of gas.
Most of the dead are dead because they don't know how to act during a hurricane! Because this area doesn't know hurricanes!

I don't know how much more plain this can be.


MTA Service Advisory
Hurricane Evacuation Map
Staten Island NY Local News, Breaking News, Sports & Weather - SILive.com

These people were not stupid for building their houses where they did. They are not familiar with the dangers of hurricanes. They just aren't. Atlantic city and Staten Island are in a sheltered harbor. This means they were ignorant of the situation. Not that they were plain stupid.

Which drives the importance of preparedness. Unfortunately, we learn important lessons to better prepare after storms. I would never state that people impacted were stupid in anyway.

I was in my hotel room, responding to the same storm in the Northern Neck of Virginia and my jaw dropped when I saw the damage sustained in NJ and New York.

It's hard to fathom such tragedy. As with any disaster, mitigation and better planning should result, so that people are better prepared for the next storm.

I extend sincerest wishes for smoothe recovery for those impacted and my heart goes out to those families that lost loved ones. When all is said and done, people have to be there for each other.
 

Rakhel

Well-Known Member
Which drives the importance of preparedness. Unfortunately, we learn important lessons to better prepare after storms. I would never state that people impacted were stupid in anyway.

I was in my hotel room, responding to the same storm in the Northern Neck of Virginia and my jaw dropped when I saw the damage sustained in NJ and New York.

It's hard to fathom such tragedy. As with any disaster, mitigation and better planning should result, so that people are better prepared for the next storm.

I extend sincerest wishes for smoothe recovery for those impacted and my heart goes out to those families that lost loved ones. When all is said and done, people have to be there for each other.
I know you are right. Both states will be more prepared to handle a natural disaster better after having to deal with Sandy and it's aftermath. We are getting press conferences every time NYC mayor, NY Gov and NJ gov(mostly Christi) feel a need to set something straight or to give some new edict, for lack of a better word.
I know when Bill swept by, bridges were still open. When Irene came for a visit, they closed the bridges but not the tunnels. Sandy, both bridges and tunnels well before the hurricane made landfall. Something else they did this time that they didn't do last year. The subway system was shut down the night before and buses stopped running at midnight.
Progress is progress.
 

4consideration

*
Premium Member
You do not seem to understand that only those in the expected flood zones should have evacuated. I did not say that all of New York and New Jersey should have evacuated.

Travelling a few hundred miles and staying in a tent might not be a good solution? And staying in a house on a sand bar that's going to take the brunt of the storm winds and storm surge is?
You did not say that all of New York and New Jersey should have evacuated. Neither did I even suggest that people ought to stay in a zone that was under an evacuation order, or under reasonable expectation of taking water.

That was not really what I was talking about. What I was talking about was, what seems reasonable and obvious to a person not in the actual situation, may not be the same as the situation as it actually was for the person in the actual situation. It is very possible that people who listened and followed hurricane preparedness plans still have found themselves without food and water, and in need of assistance. For those who didn't prepare well, it is still within the range of reasonable human compassion (IMO) for assistance to be provided, and the conversation about how best to avoid problems in the future can happen once they are actually OK.

Which road out of NY or Jersey was backed up with traffic before the hurricane hit? Name just one. The thing is this, not everyone has to get out, those living on the waterfront should.
I already addressed this in my previous post. No sense in repeating it.

I have never stood at my residence and seen everything destroyed? I lived in New Orleans during Katrina. The structure I lived in survived and did not flood but the wind ripped all the roof tiles off and the rain soaked the wood so much that it was raining inside. Everything got wet and eventually moldy and had to be thrown away.

Not every house gets flooded. In fact, most of them don't, even in Katrina most homes were not flooded.
My bad. I assumed by your position that you had not had such an experience.

I am aware that not every house in a hurricane gets flooded. I was living on the Northshore during Katrina. I had a tree fall on my house -- no flooding there. If you were living in N.O., then you are probably aware that many of the houses and businesses that did flood were not considered to be in a flood zone at the time. Sometimes floods happen where they are not expected.

If you want to live close to the water then that is your choice but you've assumed the risk. Depending on where it is I would say that the government (FEMA) and insurance agencies are not responsible in the least for your possessions or home if hit by a hurricane.
I recognize assumption of risk. I think a discussion of FEMA and insurance is getting so far off topic that I will only say here that if you have a Covered Loss for a Covered Location, then your insurance company does owe for a reasonable claim -- regardless of the location. I don't see where you are coming from in bringing up insurance here.

God would want me to show love and compassion? I don't walk on water

It just never ends. We can build homes able to survive pretty much every natural catastrophe, a cement home would probably even survive a flood though your possessions wouldn't.

There are many people exactly like you in this world and this is the reason we have so many recurring tragedies and people cry out "Oh, why me God?". It's not God's fault you bought a home on a sand bar in a hurricane zone.
(highlighting mine)

I don't know what God wants from you. That's between you and God. I don't even have a thought that you walk on water. Neither do I. When I said if I were to infer what I think God wants, I was referring to myself. If that was not clear, then I wish to make it so here.

I find your last paragraph interesting. My response is: Really? There are so many people like me and this is the reason for recurring tragedies? Are you saying that people like me cause hurricanes? Or is it people that live in places that hurricanes hit are the reason for tradegies? If that is it, then if you were living in N.O. during Katrina, you'll have to include yourself in that one for your reasoning to work. Welcome to the club.

I find this position so ridiculous that it is almost humorous. So far in my life I have had 3 three places that I live seriously damaged by hurricanes. I do not ever recall crying out, "Why me?" Actually I remember being grateful that it was not worse than it was -- every time. I was sad, sometimes scared, overwhelmed, and I dealt with a sum total of more financial loss than I recovered. What is your beef with "people like me?" Is it that I am defending people that are still in harm's way from your judgement that they are stupid when you have no idea what they have been through?

BTW, I never bought a home on a sand bar.
 

Cordoba

Well-Known Member
Just askin'.
SOMETIMES-GOD-CALMS-THE-STORM.jpg


What do you think his criteria are?

Not an easy question

But before trying to answer it, this is a humanitarian disaster where all human beings are affected whatever their faith may be, so condolences are due to those who lost relatives or friends in this storm, and best wishes for a speedy recovery to those hurt or injured.

For some people, a big storm like this storm could be a wake-up call

For others, it could serve as a reminder that this life is short

A few more thoughts in an article titled (Hurricane Sandy from an Islamic Perspective)

Hurricane Sandy from an Islamic Perspective - Shari`ah & Life - Shari`ah - OnIslam.net
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just askin'.
SOMETIMES-GOD-CALMS-THE-STORM.jpg


What do you think his criteria are?

God does not cause natural disasters, nor do I think he prevents them at the present time. The Bible reveals that when God brings punishment, his punishment is:
  • Selective - affecting only the wicked (Genesis 7:17-22)
  • Forwarned about - (Numbers 16:23-27)
  • The righteous are spared. (Genesis 7:1,23)
Natural disasters, such as tornados, earthquakes, floods, etc. are the result of natural forces that have occurred since creation. Often, terrible storms such as Sandy are made far worse by unwise actions of people, or lack of forethought, such as building in flood-prone areas, or shoddy construction in earthquake-prone areas. But God is not to blame for such disasters. I believe it is as the Bible states regarding this world alienated from God: “The swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.”—Ecclesiastes 9:11.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
God does not cause natural disasters, nor do I think he prevents them at the present time.
You imply that at one time he did, so why do you think he doesn't do it now? Are we now worth less? He can't be bothered? He enjoys the commotion?
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You imply that at one time he did, so why do you think he doesn't do it now? Are we now worth less? He can't be bothered? He enjoys the commotion?

When Adam rebelled, and opted for moral independence from God, he was no longer under God's protection. The first couple was expelled from Eden, and from God's family.
Now sinful, I believe Adam's once perfect body and mind began to deteriorate. The earth suffered as well from Adam's deflection. Says Genesis 3:17: "cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life."
When on earth, Jesus showed miraculous control over earth's natural forces. (Mark 4:37-41) By turning his back on God, Adam lost such divine intervention for himself and for his offspring.
Natural disasters are just one reason among many, I think, that shows how much we need God's rulership, and the disastrous results of independence from God.


 

Skwim

Veteran Member
When Adam rebelled, and opted for moral independence from God, he was no longer under God's protection. The first couple was expelled from Eden, and from God's family.
Now sinful, I believe Adam's once perfect body and mind began to deteriorate. The earth suffered as well from Adam's deflection. Says Genesis 3:17: "cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life."
When on earth, Jesus showed miraculous control over earth's natural forces. (Mark 4:37-41) By turning his back on God, Adam lost such divine intervention for himself and for his offspring.
Natural disasters are just one reason among many, I think, that shows how much we need God's rulership, and the disastrous results of independence from God.
So natural disasters were brewing before Adam came on the scene, but god stopped them. Is that Correct?
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
So natural disasters were brewing before Adam came on the scene, but god stopped them. Is that Correct?
In my understanding Adam's sin (literal or symbolic) meant that God took perfect benevolent controll away from the universe. It is allowed to overwhelming run as it wills with rare exceptions. What is used to determine what and which exceptions are necessarily beyond our comprehension unless it is directly revealed. What an infinate intellect that has a purpose that we can't fully compehend uses to determine actions is simply beyond our reach.
 

somethingNiftyhere

Squadoosh 1@ATime
If we approach the concept of a thing called God as a supreme all knowing creator, why then would a power that created the super storm Sandy, stop it from happening?

Read the old testament. God drowned the entire world. A super storm is even a question?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
In my understanding Adam's sin (literal or symbolic) meant that God took perfect benevolent controll away from the universe.
What kind of control was it that god took away from the universe?


It is allowed to overwhelming run as it wills with rare exceptions.
And this wasn't the case before Adam sinned?

What is used to determine what and which exceptions are necessarily beyond our comprehension unless it is directly revealed.
Why necessarily?

What an infinate intellect that has a purpose that we can't fully compehend uses to determine actions is simply beyond our reach.
Well. it certainly transcends reason. The Christian god has certainly done some very puzzling things, even changing his mind (must have initially been a big Oops).
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
If we approach the concept of a thing called God as a supreme all knowing creator, why then would a power that created the super storm Sandy, stop it from happening?
Excuse me for commenting but I am bored. It is not known God willed Sandy into existence or intended it to do what it did. He did set up natural law which he has removed his supervision over to a large extent but there is nothing biblically to indicate he purposes every storm to do what it does. His passive will may allow it but there is no reason to believe he actively created it.
Read the Old Testament. God drowned the entire world. A super storm is even a question?
You are confusing capability with will. Because God can do something does not suggest he did. The Bible implies God has two types of will, an active will and a passive will. I think this storm would be under passive will. Then why does God allow harm to happen is usually next. If God said do not sin it will bring harm and we sin and it does not bring harm then who would believe God. Original sin and rebellion broke everything and brings harm to everything. God allows the natural outcome to happen to indicate the premise was correct. It is also an argument that as is proven over and over again tragedy forces people to focus on God much more than normally. I think after 9/11 church attendance went up by several percent. So God has sufficient moral reasons to ALLOW harm to occur. Evil and destruction are not inconsistent with a God that said in his book why it occurs, that it will occur, what to do about it, and promises an ultimate eventual solution. All an atheist can say about Sandy is oh well bad luck, but don't worry we will all die in a universal heat death with the rest of the universe in a short while anyway.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
What kind of control was it that god took away from the universe?
First let me say there are no absolute direct scriptures on this issue but it is implied throughout the Bible. God originally set up things to be perfect, and claimed that all is good. Neither of which accurately describe an earth that kills a large portion of its inhabitants. When Adam sinned then he quit perfectly guaranteeing the benevolence of nature. He only occasionally influences natural events according to the Bible.
And this wasn't the case before Adam sinned?
Well if you take the allegorical interpretation of Genesis then I do not know the actual specific events or time frames when this occurred. I will only say the Bible indicates that at one time God maintained the benevolence of nature and after the fall (whatever that actually was) he no longer did. I shy away from these prehistoric issues because I and everyone else is unclear what exactly happened and when, however it seems that I am usually the only one that will admit it. I have the added burden to assess what it is the Bible is actually claiming happened. It is still debated these days but I think the generalized terms I used are sufficient.
Why necessarily?
The finite necessarily cannot comprehend the infinite. I thought this was obvious. Just one example, If God knows every fact in the past present and future and fully comprehends his purpose and we have a vanishingly small percentage of one of those areas as our total knowledge base then we are fools to decide what God is or is not doing unless it is revealed.
Well. it certainly transcends reason. The Christian god has certainly done some very puzzling things, even changing his mind (must have initially been a big Oops).
The Bible makes it clear that his ways are not our ways. If there existed a God of any kind worthy of the name he would without doubt appear strange to us. The same way a parents morals confuse children. As for your changing his mind issue, I believe you are drastically over simplifying the issue but that is another topic.
 

somethingNiftyhere

Squadoosh 1@ATime
Excuse me for commenting but I am bored. It is not known God willed Sandy into existence or intended it to do what it did. He did set up natural law which he has removed his supervision over to a large extent but there is nothing biblically to indicate he purposes every storm to do what it does. His passive will may allow it but there is no reason to believe he actively created it.[/quote] God's passive will is superseded by the Biblical scriptures that describe his Sovereign will.

You are confusing capability with will. Because God can do something does not suggest he did. The Bible implies God has two types of will, an active will and a passive will. I think this storm would be under passive will. Then why does God allow harm to happen is usually next. If God said do not sin it will bring harm and we sin and it does not bring harm then who would believe God. Original sin and rebellion broke everything and brings harm to everything. God allows the natural outcome to happen to indicate the premise was correct. It is also an argument that as is proven over and over again tragedy forces people to focus on God much more than normally. I think after 9/11 church attendance went up by several percent. So God has sufficient moral reasons to ALLOW harm to occur. Evil and destruction are not inconsistent with a God that said in his book why it occurs, that it will occur, what to do about it, and promises an ultimate eventual solution. All an atheist can say about Sandy is oh well bad luck, but don't worry we will all die in a universal heat death with the rest of the universe in a short while anyway.

I'm not confusing anything. If one believes the scriptures that describe God they have to consent the scriptures, the words of God, are either true or they're not. No equivocation involved.

Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”
 
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