Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
That does not say what you think it says-- it's not even close to what you are trying to argue...!
Wow.... just.... wow. Talk about stretching...!
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why do atheist believe something can come from nothing?
- Thread starter Nimos
- Start date
That does not say what you think it says-- it's not even close to what you are trying to argue...!
Wow.... just.... wow. Talk about stretching...!
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
I do not care one way or another -- it is YOU who made the bold claim that "theism is the default condition".
If that wild claim is true? Apes would also be theists... Are they or not?
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Projection. I'm not indignant. I'm literally laughing at your sad attempt to paint atheists into some sort of Straw Man.
I don't say there is no god-- I ask you to prove there is.
If you cannot so do? Then the god in question automatically does not exist.
That is how it works. I know you HATE that, but there you go...
leov
Well-Known Member
I gave you information why we have 7% of atheists among world's population, I say their organs of perception are nearly dead. Prove me wrong. Just do it.
leov
Well-Known Member
If they had human level consciousness, but what apes to do with anything.
leov
Well-Known Member
I do not hate , do no project it on me. God is individual relationship, God is not provable. God deals with me, I cannot answer for others, I only can share my experience.
Once again, in order to make simple things clear to the uninitiated, we'll have to call on Carl Sagan. Following which, I'll ask a very simple question.
"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin[4]) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!
"Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.
"Where's the dragon?" you ask.
"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."
You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.
"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."
Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.
"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."
You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.
"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."
And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.
Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all? If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists? Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.
Now, I will ask you a simple question: suppose I make this fire-breathing dragon claim, and we've gone through all your objections: are you prepared to believe I have a fire-breathing dragon in my garage? Because if you say no, you are doing precisely what atheists do with respect to God. We've posited every way we can think of in which we could see some evidence of such a being, and are constantly thwarted with claims of why that evidence wouldn't work, and are therefore supposed to just go ahead and believe. So, you gonna believe the dragon? Why or why not?
Book Atheist CreedSometimes it gives me a chuckle how Christians are attacked, especially when atheist and Christians have many thing in common. Live and let live is my motto. Here's a few and there is more for anyone that wants to research.
https://www.amazon.com/Atheists-Creed-Michael-Palmer/dp/0718830830
Don't think "The Atheist Creed" is quite what you might think. It is described as "a compelling and powerful assessment of the case for atheism, which will be essential and fascinating reading for student and non-student alike and for all those concerned with the fundamental question: whether or not there is a God." It is, in fact, a book of philosophy.
About the Author
A former Teaching Fellow at McMaster University and Humboldt Fellow at Marburg University, Dr Palmer has taught at Marlborough College and Bristol University. For many years Founding Head of the Department of Religion and Philosophy at the Manchester Grammar School, Dr Palmer is also the author of the best-selling textbook Moral Problems as well as of the two-volume textbook The Philosophy of Religion. More recently he has written The Atheist's Creed (2010) and The Atheist's Primer (2012).
We Never Know
No Slack
People would rather discuss rhetoric than facts since facts causes sane people to shut up, the fanatics not so much.
Yep and there's social media where people can just argue opinions 24/7 with each claiming theirs is correct
We Never Know
No Slack
Are they really passionate or just playing the part? We see passionate scenes in movies all the time that are actors just playing the part.
We Never Know
No Slack
Ah. Instead of stories of a god existing like the bible has, is it full of opinions trying to convince the readers a god doesn't exist?
sooda
Veteran Member
Remember a few years back when a handful of crackpots were screaming "Bible codes"?
We Never Know
No Slack
Could this explain it?
In reality basically everyone believes in a form of something from nothing.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Then, perhaps, you can explain the gross immorality of your god refusing to act Godly, and show it is, in fact, real, and not a hoax perpetrated by con artists.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
nope. I do not. What now, Oh Sage?
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
EVERYTHING! You claim that it is perfectly natural for humans to be theists.
Apes are our closest cousins, on Earth. If your claim has any merit? Then apes must also be theists.
If apes are not theists? Then? Your claim theism is natural? Is fully, completely and thoroughly debunked as false.
THAT is what apes have to do with it.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Nope. You gave me a pure bs non-evidence, not-argument.
Moreover? Your claim is 100% Argument From Popularity Logical Fallacy.
Finally? You are engaging in Shifting The Burden of Proof Logical Fallacy.
YOU make the incredibly stupid claim "organs of perception" without a single argument in support.
YOUR CLAIM-- YOU PROVE IT. Until you do? BOGUS.
I just proved you WRONG. Now what?
We Never Know
No Slack
Then you should be able to tell everyone where everything came from starting with where did the singularity come from.
I have no problem saying I don't know what came from what or where it came from.
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
Any god who doesn't give a damn, is unworthy of notice. Let alone worship.
But sure, why not?
sooda
Veteran Member
Atheists don't know either where things started either.. They just comprehend evolution and know the earth is probably 5 billion years old.