Why do atheists/agnostics/liberals have an anti American attitude?

[Debunker]

oh i see, only the rich conservatives should be allowed.

So you want only rich liberal to contribute? Why not set spending limits for all parties, like Obama promised to abide to in the last presidential election with John McCain. Obama backed out when all his rich buddies came with their truck loads of money though. It is no accident that General Electric and NBC gets all these government contracts, is it? Don't you really think that campaign limits on spending is the best answer for both parties? The Democrats are especially interested in limiting big business's influence in politics, unless it is GE.

 

[tumbleweed41]

So you want only rich liberal to contribute? .

The point he was making is that you seem to love to point out Democrat inconsistencies, but ignore Republican.

Liberals have no more of an "anti-American" attitude that Conservatives.
Wake up and look at the entire picture.

 

[Debunker]

That the majority of the signatories of the Constitution were Christian is irrelevant.

In 1954, a bunch of politicians decided without regard to the will of the people, many of whom were still excluded from participating in society as full citizens based on their race or gender, to insert language into an idiotic pledge that was devised out the mind of a socialist for pure propaganda. Unnecessary propaganda.

And what's with the we stuff. The "we" when it comes to nationalism or ethnic/racial pride is the mark of poor thinking.

Do you mean to say that you are opposed to the Preamble of the Constitution?
"We the people" are not my words but the Constitutions. What's with the "we" thing must be taken up with the Constitution. If you don't like these words, you can politic to change these words and the same is rue to the Pedge. If you don't like it, don't say it.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Debunker you may as well face facts, because that's what this whole ranting thread is really about, this idea of a Christian theocracy is a washed up pipe dream. It'll never happen. Our country was founded to prevent it from happening because people were tired of church rule in Europe. Now you'd impose the very thing on us we started this country to fight.

 

[Debunker]

Do they?
Ah, those poor pathetic Liberals.
Such as, John F. Kennedy, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Ulysses Grant, Abraham Lincoln, Andrew Jackson, James Madison, James Monroe, Thomas Jefferson, etc, etc...

And let us not forget the many Liberal social reforms, such as the New Deal, Social Security, Workmans Comp., Unemployment Insurance, The Civil Rights Acts, Head Start, The Americans With Disabilities Act, The Voting Rights Act, The Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, The Family Medical Leave Act, Medicare, Public Education, Child Labor Laws, Womens Rights, etc, etc...

And while 18 of the last 31 US Presidents have been Republicans, it should be noted that the total terms between Democrats and Republicans break pretty much even.
And that early Republicans had some pretty Liberal ideas.

Sure, I admit all that stuff is true but the reason is because "we the people" said so as a nation. These great events "conserved" our national values. Liberalism of the past is a different animal today than it is today. When JFK was elected president, the most liberal thing about him was that he was a Catholic. Had he claimed to be a liberal, he would never been elected. Liberal was equated strongly with Communism and a Communist had zero chance of being elected. JFK adopted American idealism. I will never forget his great speech where he said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country." Did you know he created the Peace Corp? Proud young Americans went into all the world to spread American idealism. They did not see themselves as liberals but they did see themselves as Americans conserving our national values.

 

[tumbleweed41]

... Americans conserving our national values.

You seem to forget the those social programs and reforms did not conserve anything.
They changed them.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Do you mean to say that you are opposed to the Preamble of the Constitution?

Good grief. Must you warp every opposing statement into some sort of "Your anti-America" rant?

The fact is that the American Revolution was not started by a united colonial effort.
Study a little American history.

 

[gnomon]

Do you mean to say that you are opposed to the Preamble of the Constitution?
"We the people" are not my words but the Constitutions. What's with the "we" thing must be taken up with the Constitution. If you don't like these words, you can politic to change these words and the same is rue to the Pedge. If you don't like it, don't say it.

Actually, we is the word you used quite often in your post. Go back and count them. Last I checked we didn't do anything in regards to establishing the Constitution, altering the pledge, etc.

 

[Debunker]

I think you will find that the vast religious majority in this country that are non-Christians far dwarf the number of Christians in this country. How many Christians do you think are still actually what you'd call Christians debunker? There are also a lot of liberal Christians who would stand with us and say no to theocracy.

Theocracy? Where do you live? I live in the USA and I worship as I please. If you don't, that would be your fault. What country could you live in where you could be more free to stand up against theocracy? I am not really concerned with whether or not everybody else is a Christian or not. I just try to be the best Christian I can be. That does not mean I am gong to meet your standards of what a Christian is. You see, "we the people" said I could decide what a Christian was and your judgement does mean nothing in regards to my religion. I do agree there are liberal Christians but whether they would stand with you, I am not convinced. From what I see you are having trouble getting plainold liberals to stand with you now.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Debunker I live in the US, and we're standing up to the "Christian government" your kind would like to impose on America. That is the definition of a "theocracy".

 

[Debunker]

The point he was making is that you seem to love to point out Democrat inconsistencies, but ignore Republican.

Liberals have no more of an "anti-American" attitude that Conservatives.
Wake up and look at the entire picture.

Well, the liberals have beat the dead horse of Repb's to death. It would be pointless to jump on that horse on this forum. How cold of me to not criticize GWB. That seems to be the key that unlocks acceptance here.

I am looking at the entire picture I agree that both political parties have contributed to an un-american picture. The point this thread makes is that both parties must use American idealism to create the image we want to give to the rest of the world. Did you not read my praise of JFK. He and GWB were so much alike in their idealism that they both deserve our admiration for their idealism. It is just sinful to deny this to GWB simply because he is a Republican. But that is exactly what is being done. That brother is the big picture.

 

[Debunker]

Debunker you may as well face facts, because that's what this whole ranting thread is really about, this idea of a Christian theocracy is a washed up pipe dream. It'll never happen. Our country was founded to prevent it from happening because people were tired of church rule in Europe. Now you'd impose the very thing on us we started this country to fight.

You should read what I said before you speak about what I said. I said that what you said was true. America will never be a theocracy, so what's your beef?
America will also never be an atheist state either and I doubt it will ever be a liberal state either. I will continue to go with "we the people." Are you willing to live under majority will of a free people?

 

[Debunker]

You seem to forget the those social programs and reforms did not conserve anything.
They changed them.

Ah! Semantics! We the people got what we wanted, didn't we?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

You should read what I said before you speak about what I said. I said that what you said was true. America will never be a theocracy, so what's your beef?
America will also never be an atheist state either and I doubt it will ever be a liberal state either. I will continue to go with "we the people." Are you willing to live under majority will of a free people?

Sure I'm willing to, it's conservatives that like government loyalty. Government loyalty doesn't equal looking out for the people. That's what you must realize.

 

[Debunker]

Good grief. Must you warp every opposing statement into some sort of "Your anti-America" rant?

The fact is that the American Revolution was not started by a united colonial effort.
Study a little American history.

I see no rant there. I just gave you an opportunity to clarify your position on the Preamble? Do you think the people in common are smart enough to govern themselves or not? What is your liberal take on this since you seemed opposed to my use of "we the people." I do know that last year's session of the liberal Congress, those liberals did not think the common citizen knew what was best for "we the people." We fired most of them. Do you think that was just a rant too?

 

[Debunker]

Actually, we is the word you used quite often in your post. Go back and count them. Last I checked we didn't do anything in regards to establishing the Constitution, altering the pledge, etc.

Of course I use the word we very much. Than you for pointing that out. I love the Constitution and the Preamble. I like being associated with "we the people."
The next time you check, please read the Preamble and you will find that "WE THE PEOPLE" had everything to do with the Constitution and "under God" was always the purpose of our country. I think you checked the Constitution for other reasons other than to learn what it said. Now why would you do a thing like that?

 

[gnomon]

Of course I use the word we very much. Than you for pointing that out. I love the Constitution and the Preamble. I like being associated with "we the people."
The next time you check, please read the Preamble and you will find that "WE THE PEOPLE" had everything to do with the Constitution and "under God" was always the purpose of our country. I think you checked the Constitution for other reasons other than to learn what it said. Now why would you do a thing like that?

No. I don't live with delusions.

You should actually read the works of Madison, Jefferson and the authors of the Federalist Papers, etc. when arguments on setting up the government were put forth. You will find little to no mention of God.

 

[Luminous]

You may not believe it but a better educated world will be a better world. We will always have evil people but educated people will be able to limit their evil more than an ignorant race of people. Too bad you seem to favor the ignorant's chances of srvival over the informed. I would say that the chances of their being another Hitler in Germany are zero. Evil did lose in the end but I do think Hitler thought he would win.

The quote of your statement is my rebuttle.

 

[Luminous]

Your vote only counts to one.

are you o.k.?
please don't tell me you're unstable.:spam:
:hug:

 

[Luminous]

i think most americans think they will be rich one day, that's why socialistic ideas are scary...

though we fail in almost every other standard, it seams we are the most foolheartedly optimistic people...wasn't there a poll that showed this?