Why do atheists/agnostics/liberals have an anti American attitude?

[Vendetta]

Just why is this the case? They don't like the Consitution, the Bible, babies, pie in the sky, God, or old time religion. I say love it or leave it. Christians, it is time to stand up for the USA. (Please do not use sarcasium in your answers atheist & liberals as this is a serious thread.) Remember the question is why.

I am American insofar as my social security identifies me as American. Until this country apologizes for centuries of rape, and murder of my ancestors and their descendants, until I get 40 acres and a mule as promised by Abraham Lincoln, until the "n word" has been eliminated from the lips of whites and all other ethnic groups (including my own), until law enforcement stop racial profiling me even though I am highly educated and not a gang member, and until America practices what she preaches I will always be against white puritanical, ecumenical political American BS

 

[LuisDantas]

Most of the countries you list have supported the USA with money and troops in what you call pointless wars. so, the list of your countries do not make sense in this debate.

Well, it would take listening to the argument to make sense of it, I will grant that much.

Yoyu sadly point out that there is something true in the fact that the USA is the leader in standards of none pollution but at the same time, you say this is unfortunate. Does this very statement speak with an anti-American attitude? It is not unfortunate that we are the leaders in this area, it is a good thing and the way it should be.

Is it so hard to understand things correctly, Debunker?

Call me "anti-American" all you want, but try not to let it stop you from grasping basic facts. The USA have a major (if not THE major) industrial park and therefore have a proportionally great responsibility in the ecological impact.

See? It is real simple.

 

[LuisDantas]

Even though your country is not the USA, do you not wish that your country had the record of supporting human rights that the USA has.?

Up until 1980 I probably would. Since? No, of course not. Jimmy Carter is under-rated just as much as GWB and Reagan are over-rated.

No matter what country you claim, I know it comes in second place to the USA in this area. What do you have to say about this fact?

You are lying.

 

[Debunker]

Do you ever research anything or do you just make crap up?
Popular opinion in the United States on the invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was never even close to having 100% support from AMERICANS.

Opposition to the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(i don't believe we invaded to free their people, but I'll speak hypothetically for a minute)
And his "idealism" has lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths... and left their country unstable for years to come. At what point can we say that forced "freedom" isn't worth the destruction it's implementation will cause?

I know of no country that has ever had 100% support of anything. Why do you pick out the USA to criticize? It is because you are free to do so. Why don't you pick on Red China or North Korea to discuss human rights? Do you only feel secure enough to vent your anger towards the USA? Try your philosophy with Iran. Try your freedom of speech in any other country and see how free you really are to speak your mind.

Are you saying that the USA is more oppresive than Iraq's former government under the evil dictator was? Are you saying that the USA brought death and destruction to the Middle East? Why do you think all the revolt is taking place in the Midddle East at this time? Which of the revolts is asking that a more crule dictator be placed in power? What type of freedom do these people want, if no American freedom, what do they want? Your GwB bashing and anti American position is very logically weak.

 

[Debunker]

So, anyone who speaks against Nationalism is Anti-American?
What about American Imperialism, if I oppose that am I Anti-American?
I am a Democratic Socialist, does that make me Anti-American?

Your attitude smacks of McCarthyism and his House Un-American Activities Committee.

It makes you Anti-American only if you speak against America and support un-American philosophy. Your own words determine what you are, not my words. You speak alone for what you believe. All I know is that you have not dared to answer any of the questions with which I challenged you.

 

[LuisDantas]

With all due respect, your ideas of anti nationalism makes no sense at this time in history.

I did not really expect you to make sense of them. Make of it what you will.

If the USA would denounce its national cohesiveness there are a great number of evil counties and oppressive philosophies that would raivsh us of our civil rights.

I take it that you mean "renounce"?

Either way, that is such a complete fantasy that I don't know, maybe it would be so.

Out of curiosity, what evil countries and oppressive philosophies have you imagined in that fantasy? How would they enforce their evil ways? I look forward to the differences in political, economic and military reality between your fiction world and the real one.

Here in the real world the USA's dangers are very much internal in nature, at least when they aren't actively pursued in the foreign by USA Presidents.

This is so obvious that it is amazing that so many liberal, I assume that is what you are, maintain this negative attitude towards America.

I don't have a negative attitude towards America. That in no way implies that I ought to look the other way when evidence of abuse comes to light, however.

Again I ask, what time in history has any community, if not a country, has succeeded at creating the utopia community like you seek?

Many European countries aren't quite Utopias, but certainly more advanced than the USA in social, political and economical issues. Particularly the Nordic ones.

On any level above a simple and small neighborhood, this has never been done.

Have you researched that?

You speak too often as if the world was full of loving compassionate people people

It actually is. Unfortunately, the unbalanced and the unwise often make more of a dent, to say nothing of attaining more political power.

but the fact is, that if we the people do not bind together under nationalism, the evil people of the world would allow us no freedoms whatever.

Historical fact shows otherwise.

Like GWB said, there is good and evil in this world. The wars the USA were not pointless and you would not have the freedom you now have had the USA not engaged in these so called pointless wars.

You have some nerve to speak of GWB on this matter. If he even knows how to tell good from evil, he went to impressive lengths to hide that.

In which way would I have less freedom if the USA had engaged in less wars?

 

[waitasec]

sure we are not perfect>

why...?
what has this country done that would make you say that?

Now that this has been admitted, can you cite a more open and more anointed country in the world that has done more than the USA to support human rights?

open and anointed...
you don't get out much do you?

check this link
Use of capital punishment by nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the US stands with 3rd world countries concerning capital punishment
a human rights issue

Corporations and Human Rights ? Global Issues

You have not done this. Do you really want an alternative to the USA? Just tell us what country would that be?

who said anything about an alternative...
we are far from being anointed and perfect debunk.

what is wrong with being humble and admitting to our short comings?
what are you afraid of...?

 

[waitasec]

I know of no country that has ever had 100% support of anything. Why do you pick out the USA to criticize?

ahhh, what's this thread about?
:faint:

 

[Debunker]

capitalistic interest trump human rights debunk...
lets talk about US business, NAFTA and sweat shops

Go ahead, talk about these things. The sweat shops are closed down in the USA when we find them, For this reason, sweat shops thrive in other counties. So, how about us recognizing that corrupt "international businesses" are prosperious only in other counties mor so than in the USA. Have you anything to say about this very apparent fact?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I am American insofar as my social security identifies me as American. Until this country apologizes for centuries of rape, and murder of my ancestors and their descendants, until I get 40 acres and a mule as promised by Abraham Lincoln, until the "n word" has been eliminated from the lips of whites and all other ethnic groups (including my own), until law enforcement stop racial profiling me even though I am highly educated and not a gang member, and until America practices what she preaches I will always be against white puritanical, ecumenical political American BS

OK, I have a grasp on how you feel. I will never know how you feel, but I can come to an understanding of why you feel the way you feel.

So basically until all racism stops completely, and even your own race quits using the "N" word, things will not change for you. In other words, not a chance in hell.

Lets say you get your apology from this generation. Are you going to thank the descendants that ran the underground railroad or fought for the north in the civil war? Most likely you would say no and I would agree with that. The people you owe thanks to are dead and buried just like the folks who owe you the apology.

The government is still around however. Should the government give you 40 acres and a mule? Can I sue the government to give me anything they promised my great grandfather?

Should we cut the checks for the land or just give you some property somewhere?

Would it be a requirement for you to prove you are the descendants of slaves in the U.S.A. or should we just cut every black person a check? How black is black? One half, one quarter, one eighth?

Would Obama get 20 acres and half a mule?

Perhaps biracial couples grandparents could just hand the money over from one to the other.

Perhaps the estate of an actual slave should receive something, but then every presidential promise would be brought to bear.

Perhaps you can enlighten me on how retribution could be fairly handled?

 

[waitasec]

It makes you Anti-American only if you speak against America and support un-American philosophy.

so nationalism is good...?

The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.


some have a skewed perception of intellectual honesty

 

[waitasec]

Go ahead, talk about these things. The sweat shops are closed down in the USA when we find them, For this reason, sweat shops thrive in other counties.

why do you think that is debunk...?
because of our capitalistic interests...
why has the unemployment rate in the US sky rocketed debunk...
common you can do it...use your noodle.

 

[Debunker]

100 years of slavery?
199,000 casualties in Atomic attacks on civilian targets?

Don't be so enamored with Nationalism that you forget our sordid history.
Or is remembering our past Anti-American?

Is it not wonderful that you have to go back 100 years to find fault with the USA. Have you searched the history of other counties to see how they compare to the USA?

What would you have done in Japan. A liberal democrate saved millions of lives, both of Japan and the USA, by using the bomb. It also showed the world the mass destruction that would come if the citizens of the world did not learn to get along. One thing for sure, the USA has been the leader in preventing mass destruction of the world. Do you know of another country that has used it nuclear superiority to protect freedom like the USA? You have not spoken to this question in any of your oost or neither has any of the critics of the USA. Are you guys excempt from answering questions or do you only ask questions?

 

[Debunker]

I am American insofar as my social security identifies me as American. Until this country apologizes for centuries of rape, and murder of my ancestors and their descendants, until I get 40 acres and a mule as promised by Abraham Lincoln, until the "n word" has been eliminated from the lips of whites and all other ethnic groups (including my own), until law enforcement stop racial profiling me even though I am highly educated and not a gang member, and until America practices what she preaches I will always be against white puritanical, ecumenical political American BS

Obama is the President the last time I checked. Should all counties rejected their history? I don't think so. You are free, are yo not? your kids will be free. You have more freedom in the USA than any place in the world. I agree with the poster who said there is only one race which is the human race. The Boiling Pot is being filled and the stew is cooking. All you have to do is join in the cooking and stop boiling over the sides. At least you know the stew will be better cooked under the recipe of the USA than that of any other country in the world.

 

[Debunker]

Well, it would take listening to the argument to make sense of it, I will grant that much.

Is it so hard to understand things correctly, Debunker?

Call me "anti-American" all you want, but try not to let it stop you from grasping basic facts. The USA have a major (if not THE major) industrial park and therefore have a proportionally great responsibility in the ecological impact.

See? It is real simple.

Let's be honest here sir. I have not called you anti-American. Your ideas in my opinion conflict with what I call American idealism, IMO. But that speaks for itself. Why do you not answer my questions about other countries being superior to the USA in promoting freedom? If you want to stay in this debate, IMO, you should attempt some response to these questions. So, I do not wish to call you anti anything but it is your burden to tell us something positive about America. Can you do that? If President Obama had nothing to say that was good about America, what chances do you think he would have to be elected to a second term in office? Don't you think that Americans would assume that he was anti-American? You speak for yourself sir; therefore, I say speak.

 

[waitasec]

made in china...

 

[Debunker]

Up until 1980 I probably would. Since? No, of course not. Jimmy Carter is under-rated just as much as GWB and Reagan are over-rated.

You are lying.

On what logic do you base your opinion that Mr. Carter was superior to Reagan and Bush. You did not say but only made a meaningless statement without ansy premises. That is not good rhetoric.

I am lying. That is something I do not accuse you of although you will not address the questions you are asked. If you want to stay in this debate, you should refrain from using the extreme, which is what this thread is all about from the get go. I however, will not push the Red Button but I will welcome a more friendly response from you in the future.

 

[Amill]

Do you ever research anything or do you just make crap up?
Popular opinion in the United States on the invasion of Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He was never even close to having 100% support from AMERICANS.

Opposition to the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(i don't believe we invaded to free their people, but I'll speak hypothetically for a minute)
And his "idealism" has lead to hundreds of thousands of deaths... and left their country unstable for years to come. At what point can we say that forced "freedom" isn't worth the destruction it's implementation will cause?

I know of no country that has ever had 100% support of anything. Why do you pick out the USA to criticize? It is because you are free to do so. Why don't you pick on Red China or North Korea to discuss human rights? Do you only feel secure enough to vent your anger towards the USA? Try your philosophy with Iran. Try your freedom of speech in any other country and see how free you really are to speak your mind.

Are you saying that the USA is more oppresive than Iraq's former government under the evil dictator was? Are you saying that the USA brought death and destruction to the Middle East? Why do you think all the revolt is taking place in the Midddle East at this time? Which of the revolts is asking that a more crule dictator be placed in power? What type of freedom do these people want, if no American freedom, what do they want? Your GwB bashing and anti American position is very logically weak.

And now you're completely jumping topics? What does any of this have to do with my response? I'm not picking on the USA, I'm picking on YOU because of your bogus claims. Why is it that whenever someone points out your errors you immediately assume they are attacking the USA or GwB. I was simply pointing out that there wasn't anywhere near the support for the Iraq war as you claimed. You claimed there was almost 100% world approval. I showed you that even on US SOIL the support for war was 47-60%. Europe was far lower, especially without UN approval. That clearly shows that your claim was completely bogus.

Where in my response did I bash president Bush? I was simply bringing up the point that the freedom you claim we are giving them with this war has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths. I say again, at what point is the implementation of freedom not worth it? Should a scenario arise where giving a country freedom results in the death of most of the people, would it still be worth it?

 

[Vendetta]

Obama is the President the last time I checked. Should all counties rejected their history? I don't think so. You are free, are yo not? your kids will be free. You have more freedom in the USA than any place in the world. I agree with the poster who said there is only one race which is the human race. The Boiling Pot is being filled and the stew is cooking. All you have to do is join in the cooking and stop boiling over the sides. At least you know the stew will be better cooked under the recipe of the USA than that of any other country in the world.

First off Obama's election is indeed symbolic for remarkable progress but doesn't mean America isnt racist. Besides Obama has been attacked not only on his heritage but his name. If you recall in '08 at John McCains function an old lady stood up and called Obama an Arab. Some black theorist say because Obama has a bi-racial background he has earned the trust of "white voters" thus making him a more liked target than let's say a "full black" candidate like a Jessie Jackson.

Melting pot? Sure we have melting pot but isn't it America complaining there are too many Mexicans in America (under the illegal immigration campaign). Also what about "white flight" and the decrease of property value?

All this talk about human race is nonsense by the way. Humans are a species and because America has been so indulged in race, and race relations it will always be a continual problem until the baby boomers die out and a new generation of.liberal thought comes in. I don't even want to start with white southern christians who continue to believe Obama is a muslim because his middle name is Hussein.

 

[Debunker]

I did not really expect you to make sense of them. Make of it what you will.

I take it that you mean "renounce"?

Either way, that is such a complete fantasy that I don't know, maybe it would be so.

Out of curiosity, what evil countries and oppressive philosophies have you imagined in that fantasy? How would they enforce their evil ways? I look forward to the differences in political, economic and military reality between your fiction world and the real one.

Here in the real world the USA's dangers are very much internal in nature, at least when they aren't actively pursued in the foreign by USA Presidents.

I don't have a negative attitude towards America. That in no way implies that I ought to look the other way when evidence of abuse comes to light, however.

Many European countries aren't quite Utopias, but certainly more advanced than the USA in social, political and economical issues. Particularly the Nordic ones.

Have you researched that?

It actually is. Unfortunately, the unbalanced and the unwise often make more of a dent, to say nothing of attaining more political power.

Historical fact shows otherwise.

You have some nerve to speak of GWB on this matter. If he even knows how to tell good from evil, he went to impressive lengths to hide that.

In which way would I have less freedom if the USA had engaged in less wars?

I will try to be sensitive to your defense of your disapproval of the American philosophy of freedom. You say that my belief in America is a complete fantasy. What really disappoints me is, that you offer no facts in support of your attack on the USA, is that I hear no liberal American jumping in here to defend our country from you rhetoric.

Do you really think it is America's imagination that countries that call us the Great Satan has world priorities that are more noble than the USA? You don;t see Iran as it is, being an evil empire? You think China is on the road to democracy while they allow 80% of their population to life at a small subsentence level? How about North Korea? You think all these third world dictators are more noble in their idealism than American is? You are not just criticizing GWB, bur you are taking on the majority of citizens in the USA and freedom loving people around the world. You see this as fantasy but the rest of the world wants to know from you, what should reality be and who should be at the top of yor realistic world? Until you adventure to answer these questions, you have no defense for your extreme positions against America.

You say you have no negative attitude twars the USA but we only ask you to give consent to a few positive things about the USA. You do not offer any. I do not cll you a deallocator or living in fantasy, but you do not support your opinions with facts. That much is for sure.

As far as researching utopias, I have and I know that the USA is the closest country that approaches a utopia especially when it comes to human rights. You agree in your heart of hearts or you would herbivorously answer the questions that have been put forward.