Why do atheists/agnostics/liberals have an anti American attitude?

[Debunker]

I really do not care if GWB is a Republican or Democrat.
I find that he did more to harm this country than help it.
He ignored the Palestinians, he invaded a sovereign country without provocation, he misjudged Iran, he committed America to removing Saddam rather than focusing on those responsible for the 9/11 attacks, he alienated Muslims in the middle east, he embraced torture, he initiated the bank bailouts, he supported the breaking down of liberties guaranteed by our forefathers....

Need I go on?

As a patriotic American citizen and veteran, I regret the embarrassment to our country that was George W Bush.

To me and many other Americans, you statement sounds very much like a political opponent of the USA. It sounds like something starlit out of Iran's propaganda machine. It sounds like the rhetoric of the terrorist. Please tell us something good about the USA so we will know you are a patriot.

The fact the Palestinians danced in streets on 9/11 may explain GWB's attitude towards the Palestinians. Love is a two way street. He did alienate the Muslim terrorist. What would you expect after 9/11? He invaded Iraq with almost 100% approval of the world. It is his idealism that is active in bring freedom to the Middle East and only the terrorist and cheap dictators disapprove. Where do you stand on these issues or need we ask?

 

[Debunker]

JFK was, indeed, an idealist. He was the very reason that we confronted racism in the South (i.e. the integration of colleges against the will of the ruling white class), among other things.

George W. Bush, on the other hand, was so intellectually vapid that his only redeeming value is that he has been (mostly) silent since leaving the Presidency.

Other than his willingness to do anything necessary to enrich his wealthy cronies, perhaps you could provide us with a couple of his ideals that you think he actually pursued (as opposed to just paying lip service to)?

Consider this a continuation of my last post to you. I am against extremism on all sides. I hope you share this view. You say that I have predetermined mindset on politics in the last post to me. When I mention the great idealism of JFK, you have nothing but praise for JKF. On the other hand, I point out the similarities between GWB and JFK's idealism, you have nothing good to say about GWB. I suggest your mind was already made up. IMO any time a person's philosophy of life will not allow him to say a single kind word about another person, that person is an extremist. Don't you see that hard positions only damage our American idealism and our country? That is the point that this thread is attempting to make. The whole theme of this thread is to say that extremes on both sides of politics need to put their differnces aside and work for the good of the common good.

 

[tumbleweed41]

To me and many other Americans, you statement sounds very much like a political opponent of the USA. It sounds like something starlit out of Iran's propaganda machine. It sounds like the rhetoric of the terrorist. Please tell us something good about the USA so we will know you are a patriot.

That's your problem. You equate the USA with Bush.

The fact the Palestinians danced in streets on 9/11 may explain GWB's attitude towards the Palestinians. Love is a two way street. He did alienate the Muslim terrorist. What would you expect after 9/11? He invaded Iraq with almost 100% approval of the world. It is his idealism that is active in bring freedom to the Middle East and only the terrorist and cheap dictators disapprove. Where do you stand on these issues or need we ask?

Like I said...
American Idealism has little to do with the foreign intervention and bully tactics used by Amercian politicians for the last fifty years.

 

[Debunker]

Oh, Debunker. Why the insults? Do we really need them?

Perhaps you can point out to me, just where in the forum rules that it says that I must obtain your permission to post in a given thread?

Scarecrow's Rule #1 - if you insist on posting inflammatory rhetoric, geared toward provoking a fellow member of the forums, you should be prepared to face a withering, sarcastic response, in kind.

Scarecrow's Rule #2 - Passive/Aggressive behavior is so passe. It's been done on this forum, ad nauseum. If you want honest debate, then use an open, friendly tone. If you want to simply trash others that don't agree with you, that's not a problem. The waffling between the two techniques, however, is painfully transparent.

I am sorry for the insult. It was really a spontaneous response to you completely ignoring the true purpose of this thread, which I explained in detail about 120 replies ago. This thread is looking for broad minded responses and tolerance. Your post just hit me the wrong way and I did over react.


A word of advice - you aren't dealing with children on this forum. If you come to play, you better bring your "A" game.

I am sorry for the insult. It was really a spontaneous response to you completely ignoring the true purpose of this thread, which I explained in detail about 120 replies ago. This thread is looking for broad minded responses and tolerance. Your post just hit me the wrong way and I did over react.

As for your threat, I only want to play with you if you are willing to see both sides of the game. Otherwise, we don't need to play. I have no A game. It is all about American idealism with me when it comes to these political threads.Please remember my definition of arrogance and give it some thought.

 

[Debunker]

Interesting how your ego lets you think you speak for all of RF.

Careful, your hypocrisy is showing.

Still trying to speak for everyone on RF I see.
Your ego knows no bounds.

I completely agree.
You have more than enough for all of RF.

You do miss the purpose of this thread. You have been around several threads with me and have never yet to my knowledge made a constructive remark toward me. I get the feeling you want to say something but are very reluctant to do so. I don't speak for the forum and I do not look for opportunities to lay in wait to excoriate another person.

I admit, we are all capable of hypocritical positions at times. I have often fallen into that trap but I do fight against it. This thread is intended to help all of us to agree on something bigger than extreme personal ideas. What is your bief? Are you here to make conversation better or to find something else?

 

[Debunker]

Interesting how your ego lets you think you speak for all of RF.

Careful, your hypocrisy is showing.

Still trying to speak for everyone on RF I see.
Your ego knows no bounds.

I completely agree.
You have more than enough for all of RF.[/QUOTE

Notice that I am not required to rebut your political position or philosophy of life, because you never present a position. Your only interest seems to be to find fault with me. What do you think about moderation and common sense values? Do you have an opinion on these things? That is what this thread is all about. Please keep on topic.

 

[Debunker]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Or to put it into words you might better understand:

expect to treated the same way you treat others.
​

Or perhaps you think the golden rule applies to everyone BUT you?

When I threw the bait out, I did not expect to catch so many big fish. I tried to let everybody off the hook but some fish just keep coming back for more bait. If you have something to say in regards to this thread, say it. Your insults are getting old. Under the circumstances, I have been very tolerant of you. When do you think you have crossed the line of the forum rules? You have had your say so I suggest you leave me alone.

 

[Debunker]

did I forgot to mention that it is an Australian coorporation hell-bent on destroying America?
conservapedia?
i don't hate talk radio...i have no idea what every station expuses, sice i have better ways of getting info then by listening to one person's opinons.
liberalism is all about "truth"
not about "balanced to favor us"
i don't even hate Fox, i think they are in it for the money that comes from confusing the American people.
liberalism in America always wins, and has always won. Because AMERICA IS LIBERALISM...we have a constitution that stops conservative's attempts at destroying our country with their faulty and pitiful believes.

Well, Luminous, thanks for enlightening us on the true intentions of your brand of liberalism. If all liberals shared your values, I would be very concerned. But most American liberal are Americans first and they do not seek to destroy America.

In your country, I think you are a minority there. I am confident that your fellow mates deplore your ideas as extreme as we do here also. As for Fox being motivated by money, are you saying the other news networks are not? Of course not but you certainly only see one side of the story if you think the other networks give only unbiased facts.

 

[Debunker]

There is no lie to the charges I and millions of others lay against the United States.
Your ignorance of the point here is remarkable.
The fact is Debunker necessity will dictate the course of the EU and if it is necessary to continue the path of creating a federal (centralised) european government then it will happen.
If you can't see the signs now then you are blind.

No it wont...the world will realise what a monster the US has become..there is no denying this Debunker...there is no worming out of it.
Is there anything in particular you would like to deny?
Or perhaps your definition of monster does not include warmongering ecological vandalism and racist oppresson to name but a few?

Interesting theory....

I however believe oppositional defiant-ism is the fountain of liberty and basis of my religion.

I personally believe that there is a lot more going on in the world than you seem to realise...the reigns of power are no more in your president's hands than they are in your 'democratic' grip...your government is a puppet...like mine...your nation a tool.

I am blaming the tool more than the wielder...but I blame the tool for allowing itself to become the tool.

If there is going to be a one world government...then it must be run for the holistic benefit of all...not for the benefit of the apex of the economic pyramid.

You sound like you have good intent...so from me to you...good luck man...for the citizens of the USA you have my unconditional support, as I said it's your government and system I have issues with...not you..that would be illogical.

In fact in an ideal world I could see the US and EU stand to gain a lot from cementing a firm alliance with each other...with our common values beliefs and history...but alas...

The last statement you make is very good. I am pleased you ended with that assertion. In fact, cooperation is what the USA and Europe have been practicing. The USA has not gone into counties of Muslim extremism alone and we do not fight world terrorism alone. We have the Europeans with us. We have the NATO that has protected us since WWII and our trade is benificial to us both. Europeans are giving up on their multi culture movement in favor of the model of American idealism. We will never agree to a world government but we will share our mutual way of life with you and we will be your friend. The chances of there being another Nazi like government in Europe is about zero and as soon as the KGB influence dies of old age, Russia will come around to more reasonableness.

 

[Debunker]

I don't want to sound like I'm generalizing all right wing religious conservatives, but I tend to hear this a lot from them. Anyone who is an atheist is a feminists, abortionist, commie, anti-american, blah blah blah. Gets very tiring. Furthermore the constitution was not founded on religion. The constitute makes it very clear that religion be separated from state . What I'm mad about is the fact that much of the constitution has been tampered with by faith driven politicians and those who have the elite attitude over the minority. It's sickening and unprogressive in my point of view. It is attitudes like this that are far from what Liberty and democracy mean.

"We the people" means majority rules. It is good though that the Constitution demands the minority be respected but they are not likely to get everything they want.

 

[Debunker]

Even pro-choice folks, homosexuals (GLBT), agnostics, and atheists?

Boy, you've changed your tune.

Not really so. You just have to get to know me. Your religious thread did have a positive influence on me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Not really so. You just have to get to know me. Your religious thread did have a positive influence on me.

:takeabow:

 

[Debunker]

American Idealism has little to do with the foreign intervention and bully tactics used by Amercian politicians for the last fifty years.

Like in Iraq, where the people are free, like in the USSR, where the people are now free, Like in south Korea where the people are now free, like in Tunisia and Egypt where the people are now free, and the beat goes on. Now what countries are you talking about?

 

[LuisDantas]

That is very much a mixed bag, isn't it? I'm not even sure what your point about those countries would be.

 

[Father Heathen]

Debunker, take it easy on our Liberal friends. They have the best of intentions, they just are blind to reality.

I don't blame you for any contempt you may hold for them however, they have been rude to you to say the least. You shed the light of day and common sense upon them so you cannot expect them to greet you with open arms. They believe they control the internet and are generally sheltered from logical debate. The poor souls are not use to being challenged. :no:

[youtube]N-yZFbzaWbg[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yZFbzaWbg

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

VOR! I missed you man!

I have not seen you since before the election.

I like the sound of VOR...my kind of n....

 

[tumbleweed41]

Like in Iraq, where the people are free, like in the USSR, where the people are now free, Like in south Korea where the people are now free, like in Tunisia and Egypt where the people are now free, and the beat goes on. Now what countries are you talking about?

Iran, Columbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Lebanon, Vietnam, Nicaragua, the majority of Northern and Central Africa, Cuba, Panama, Haiti, etc, etc, etc....

You really should study a little history and quite relying on the morning news shows.

(PS, the USSR collapsed under it's own weight. In one part due to it's continued interventionism and bully tactics.)

 

[Luminous]

Iran, Columbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Lebanon, Vietnam, Nicaragua, the majority of Northern and Central Africa, Cuba, Panama, Haiti, etc, etc, etc....

You really should study a little history and quite relying on the morning news shows.

(PS, the USSR collapsed under it's own weight. In one part due to it's continued interventionism and bully tactics.)

Colombia didn't even celebrate their Independance the year that i went to visit.
They feel oppressed by the hold the United States has over it. Every song i heard on their version of MTV was about Bush not being welcome.

 

[Civil Shephard]

Yeah... we don't give the world freedom. We protect our interests. Even Hannity will tell you that.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yeah... we don't give the world freedom. We protect our interests. Even Hannity will tell you that.

Amen...