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Why do bad things happen when God exists?

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Can you elaborate the scientific relation between humane activities and Vulcanic eruption for instance?
Well, volcanoes come under the subject of seismology
.. as for earthquakes. Oil drilling and extracting is happening at a unprecedented rate, including the addition of 'fracking'
You might believe the 'seismic shocks' are negligible, but I do not
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
The answer is very simple: Because people are bad. God made free-will & it's up to us to decide how we will use it. And on some things like illness, tragedies, etc. happen because they are possible in material world, it does now seem as a gigantic problem on Earth but when looking that souls are for eternity this won't be much of a problem, right?
Tell that to my 8 year old child who was raped. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of children dying of starvation in Africa. tell that to a 9 month old dying of cancer. Tell that to an elderly person who lives in more pain than you can imagine in your lifetime. People are bad? Some maybe. But its not as many as you think. And most people are damned good people.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
So you are sinless and so are your faithful followers? Wow, you must be a god.

When you get sinless you can jump up on your soapbox and I will hear you. Until then you are nothing more than a resounding cymbal or a raven's cry.
First you would have to prove there is sin. I personally do not believe in the concept. I believe people make mistakes, some more grievous than others. I have never done anything harmful to another person in my life, with the exception of hurting other's feelings, such as my parents, a friend and lovers. I am not trying to insult you but this notion of sin is one I simply find to be no more than coercion on the part of Abrahamic faiths.
 

uncung

Member
Well, volcanoes come under the subject of seismology
.. as for earthquakes. Oil drilling and extracting is happening at a unprecedented rate, including the addition of 'fracking'
You might believe the 'seismic shocks' are negligible, but I do not
But oil drilling and extraction are the current humane activities while volcanic eruption is as old as the earth age.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
There is increasing opinion that they do!
Our activities on this planet affects a whole number of things. Our present activities in this 'oil age' is highly significant to the balance of nature, including deforestation
ie. nature as in 'natural disaster'

It's like a rolling ball, one thing affects another and so on. That's not to say that the human element is the only one, of course

Or even a significant one. Science and Truth aren't determined by consensus.

Ah yes, the old Epicurean paradox. Is God willing to prevent evil but unable? Etc.

God, if It exists and is omnipotent, is certainly able, but it would mean destroying our free will.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
First you would have to prove there is sin. I personally do not believe in the concept. I believe people make mistakes, some more grievous than others. I have never done anything harmful to another person in my life, with the exception of hurting other's feelings, such as my parents, a friend and lovers. I am not trying to insult you but this notion of sin is one I simply find to be no more than coercion on the part of Abrahamic faiths.

Is murder a mistake? Enslavement? Theft? I don't know if they're sins, but they're evil, willful acts.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
That's rubbish! You take one verse and render it into evil.
I am a Muslim and you are trying to teach me my religion?
Do you want Islam to mean kill all unbelievers? Is that what you want? War and violence?
Which football team do you support? Shall we have a fight about that?
Pathetic!
No disrespect but while it may be rubbish to you, for many of the more radical Muslims, killing all unbelievers is what is taught in the Qu'ran. I disagree with it completely of course but you cannot deny the actions and propaganda forwarded by the Jihadists or ISIS. I applaud that you don't see it that way but many others do.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Is murder a mistake? Enslavement? Theft? I don't know if they're sins, but they're evil, willful acts.
From a Buddhist POV, or at least this is how I view what The Buddha taught, yes, murder is a mistake. Its a choice. We all have choices to make. The man who raped my daughter made a grievous mistake and paid for that, karma-wise, with being placed on the sex offender registry and time in prison. Not enough IMO but that was the law. I choose to do no harm, to the best of my ability. All of life is a choice. We can choose to get up each day or not. We can choose to eat, marry, and yes, even murder or steal or have slaves. It is totally up to us.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Then who created the bad things?
What bad things do you speak of? We cannot control nature, such as you mentioned earthquakes or tornadoes but we can try to control global warming or reducing the sheer number of children being born, which in some cases, such as the Duggars, etc, is flat out stupid (IMO), but we can choose to do what is right for the collective of humankind. We can choose not to murder, or steal, or harm. The 'bad things' you mention are choices, insofar as it relates to choices the humans make.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Good? Then I suppose you are fine with children being murdered and raped and married to 60 year olds at the ripe old age of 8. Mother of Zeus...this kind of post scares the crap out of me. I wish you the best in life but in this incredibly rare instance, you are going on ignore.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
The 'they' being terrorist groups?
Just because they are Muslims, you should not 'tar' us all with the same brush. We live in varying societies worldwide and the vast majority prefer peace.
I absolutely agree with you and have said this repeatedly in defense of the Muslim faith on this forum for quite some time. I have many Muslim friends who I admire who believe as you do, if this is an indication of what you believe. In fact, one was beaten nearly to death simply for being Muslim, as there are too damn many racists and bigots in this country. I loathe racism and bigotry and prejudice.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
There is only one book inspired by God and it is the Bible.
Well, objectively speaking, I don't believe there are such things as bad things. The idea of bad is purely subjective. There is nothing wrong with death and disease. Its just a matter of perspective. I don't think God cares one iota if someone dies of a stroke, or gets run over by a train, or is buried in a mudslide. These are not bad things.

There are two statements here that I strongly disagree with. The first is that there is only one book inspired by God. How do you know that? Did you personally speak to God and get God to let the rest of the world know that? IMO, God has many faces and can and does appeal to many faith, which includes being able to inspire many sacred texts.
And two, I do think God cares how we die. In my faith, we choose our path and if that includes dying by one of the things you mention, God does care. It is a lesson we choose to learn. To imagine that God doesn't care about this seems the anthesis of what God is about and in particular, what the Abrahamic faiths teach.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
  • a chronic, painful illness, terminal cancer, incurable disease and will need a transplant or we will die.
  • disability.
  • tornado or natural disaster by earthquakes, flooding, volcanic eruption, landslide, hurricanes etc.
Some illnesses and disabilities can be the result of choice. Such as someone who smokes and gets Lung Cancer or someone who eats too much fat in their diet and they acquire heart disease. Also disability can be the result of reckless behavior, such as disregarding proper body mechanics in one's job. And global warming can and has been the cause of many natural disasters.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
do you mean natural disasters and cancers occur due to of human error?
Yes, they can be as I noted in a previous post to you. Cancers can and are at times the result of human choice. Lung cancer being one example from smoking or working with asbestos, etc. And global warming has resulted in ice bergs melting, causing a rise in the overall temperatures of the oceans which then lead to disasters, such as hurricanes, typhoons, and so on.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Like darkness, bad is just a concept. Certainly, I can step out of the light and into the darkness, because I can step into a place that is absent of light. So too can we do things which lack anything that is good. If we lack God, we are evil.

No offense intended but that is a really presumptive thing to say. My father was a lifelong atheist. He did more good for people and for our community than I can possibly explain here. He was far from evil and he did not believe in God in any fashion at all. How can you possibly consider all atheists evil? Was Nietzsche evil? Of course not. He was a profound philosopher with amazing thoughts. I may not agree with him on some points but one cannot deny his impact on philosophy any more than one can deny the thoughts of Plato or Socrates.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
My wife just found out she has cancer...Christ has not and is not bearing her disease. Many people die today of sickness and disease. God has not removed their sicknesses. And for most, he will not remove their disease.
I am truly sorry to hear of your wife's ill. I pray (no offense intended as I don't pray as the Abrahamic faiths do, I merely offer my thoughts to the concept I consider God which is more like energy) that she gets well and suffers no ill effects. Namaste to your wife and to you.
 

JoStories

Well-Known Member
God must not intervene, even for the most innocent child. And as I've said, each such incident is a monument to God's commitment to our free will. It's hard for us to take, that's part of the suffering we must endure to be tested, but from the vantage point of eternity, this will be but a blink. I lost my wife a few years ago, and the grief turned me into a basket case. But my pain would have been doubled if I'd been continually asking, Why? Why her? Why me? Why now??? That's a significant blessing of being a deist. The grief passes gradually, but then you feel guilty for that as the memory begins to fade as well.
I strongly disagree. Years ago, I had a breathing issue and had to go to the ER. I had the usual xrays and was told I had a mass which they considered to be cancer. I was scheduled for a biopsy. I went home and we did a sing...I am NA and its a kind of prayer vigil... and when I returned to have that biopsy, there was nothing there. And we compared the xrays btw...to be certain there was no mechanical issue. There was not. Bottom line, IMO, God (as I view the concept) most definitely did intervene with that.
 

uncung

Member
Good? Then I suppose you are fine with children being murdered and raped and married to 60 year olds at the ripe old age of 8. Mother of Zeus...this kind of post scares the crap out of me. I wish you the best in life but in this incredibly rare instance, you are going on ignore.
No I don't. I don't support children being murdered nor raped nor married by old men.
 
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