Why Do Christians insist meditation is "dangerous"?

[Politesse]

He says, “Be still, and know that I am God" (Ps 46)

“In the inner stillness where meditation leads, the Spirit secretly anoints the soul and heals our deepest wounds.” – St. John of the Cross

Christians most certainly can meditate, and should meditate, and if they are not crazy Evangelicals of some stripe, they do meditate. As with most stupid ideas harbored by my parent's generation, I suspect this has something to do with the failed cultural reforms of the 1970's, when everything "foreign" or "transgressive" was experimented with all at once by the radical youth and shunned by society at large, accepted or discounted as though it were all part of one big happy anti-American package. Including, no doubt, transcendental meditation and thinly understood Hindu mantras. You know, sex drugs, rock and roll, wisdom of the orient, and shag carpets.

 

[psychoslice]

I think its just ignorance that they see it as being a bad thing, anything they don't understand is looked upon as being from the devil, poor things.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Prompted by the thread "What is Contemplative Christianity?", where it has been asserted by some posters that meditation "opens one up to demonic forces

You learn something new every day. I was raised Catholic and have, I think, studied Christianity well enough, but this I have never heard. But hey! Some Christians object to the Harry Potter books.

 

[cryogenized]

...
I once read something that stuck to me;
"You are either drawn toward what you fear or what you hope for"

Meditation therefore, i believe, is the means of going towards that which you either fear or hope for, without struggling against the forces arrayed against your desires..
Before i resume this line of thought, i feel its necessary first to clarify on this 'threat' -
Depending on one's personal belief and perception on reality, it could either be 1. demonic influence due to the bondage of sin or, 2. it is different counteracting desires, which perpetuates the cycle of suffering.
Either way, this threat has a certain nature: obey it and it acts benevolently towards you / acts in terms of or behaves in your interests.. Or, resist it and it will exert its will against yours.. Think of the metaphor of two different water streams- with or against, either way, these two forces want to reach their destination.
Or as two rows of thousands of people facing one another and running- each person wants to find their way around the oncoming people and to do so, means using any medium you can justify necessary to find your way..

So in other words, to my point; the only enemy is only ever yourself. However, if demons do exist, how is the notion above still applicable?
Ask yourself what it is you are running from.. Do you fear being a loser? Being called an idiot? Being a someone whose opinion matters little to others? What is it you strive for in life? I believe meditation is a way of 'gradually embracing the things you fear, in order to unify yourself with what you have lost through your years of suffering and thereby, ending the desire to escape from anything in this world.

 

[cryogenized]

In my personal arguements about this, come to think of it, the gist seems to be 'hearing the voice of god' ..
The christians i've met reason that, if the mind is emptied, if the voices are silenced, god cannot be heard. They fear what will fill that void and i answer them usually in this way:
1. God, in his resplendancy, cannot be reduced to a voice in your head that says: "go help that man there" or "read chapter so and so of the bible" .. It may on occasion, feel as if that voice is divine and demonstrates surprising foresight or insight, all of which i can say i have witnessed myself. But, change is inevitable:
When something like that happens to you, then usually (depending on your spiritual maturity / prevalence of your ego), you would want more of it and thats usually when this voice could lead you into a really embarassing situation.. Note again, what it is you find yourself being drawn towards.. (What fears? What hopes?)

My way of meditation has been a simple path of 'just breathing' - programming myself to breath full strokes.. Letting whatever thought occur as it wishes, but prioritizing breathing..
If one prioritizes thought over breath, one develops strong feelings inside of one that later starts to cognitively trigger and later on, causes you to think yourself into self-defeating circles that spiral down to depression..

 

[cryogenized]

If you still feel that meditation opens doors to the demonic for you, then face your demons and -breathe-
.. A bully has fun kicking the kid who mentally resists him, yet is too weak to rise himself against the bully.. If that kid would over overcome the bully through means of opposition, then that kid would be the next to become exactly like that bully..
Demons are exactly the same where this principle is concerned.
A bully stays a bully for as long as he is resisted and unreplaced.
Would he have you humiliated and made a laughing stock out of? Then let him do so; you'll end up discovering that, his true desire or true motive, was to make you the necessary factor of change to put the greater necessity of things into motion..
War and hatred? Its all the same.. Simple misunderstandings, yet, we all just want out own way around one another, or rather, alongside one another, to make heaven a reality on this earth..

^.^

 

[cryogenized]

Hi Orbit,

The word "meditation" is a general term for every religious groups such as Buddhist, Christians, Christians (contemplative), Muslim, Mormons, JW and others. What differ is HOW THEY MEDITATE. What is their point of reference in meditating? what would be their basis?

As evangelical, we are very careful (enough) to adhere to what the Holy Scriptures stated. We will not add anything that is not practiced or taught by Jesus Christ. We believed that the practices outside the scriptures will be considered as false and authored by the evil one. May I give you an example:

Deut. 18:10-13
10. "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer,
11. or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead.(necromancy)
12. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the Lord; and because of these detestable things the Lord your God will drive them out before you.
13. "You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.

The following are what I've posted in the other thread "Contemplative Christianity":

It is better to understand first how demonic activity works. We have some passage here referring to evil/unclean spirit:
Matt.12:43-45
43. But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places, seeking rest, and findeth it not.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation.

The demons roamed around us. They are seeking a place to rest, a vacant house; a body to live with it.
Eph.4:26-27
26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27. Neither give place to the devil.

How about our mind? The following are the Scriptures referring to our minds. What we should do with our minds.
1.) We should have the mind of Christ.
2.) Our thought captive to the obedience of Christ.
3.) Guard your minds in Christ Jesus.
4.) Renewing your mind.

I don’t see here emptying your mind or quieting your mind and so on.

1 Cor. 2:14-16
14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


2 Cor. 10:3-5
3. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
4. for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.
5. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,


Phil.4:6-7
6. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
7. And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

Romans 12:2
2. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

The following are how emptying one’s mind gained an entrance for the evil spirit:
1.) Not using God’s word in meditating.
2.) Focusing on self rather than the Scripture.
3.) Not conscious with Christ.

There are degrees of gaining an entrance with the demons/evil spirits. Once example is when a person practiced quija board/or spirit of the glass surely gain a foothold. Based on my experience, my friend was possessed, we take care of her for 2 years. A friend of mine in the Aikido class told me that he practiced Yoga, he dreamt a scary thing before he became a yogi. Gaining an entrance of demons is not always in the degree of possession like the movie ‘Exorcist,’ The foothold of the devil to a person may start from the mind deception as some of cult churches had. They claim themselves as christian but their doctrines were authored by the demons through angelic or Jesus-like appearance through their founder, and they thought it was from God. This is not solely for mind emptying—to gained devil’s foothold. There are a lot of factors that an evil can gain a foothold. The key is this—from the scripture.

Gal. 1:6-9
6. I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7. which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8. But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9. As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Hope this make clear regarding Christian meditation and emptying minds.

Thanks

 

[cryogenized]

Wrong button.. Hmph.
..
Believing only in jesus christ, but quoting deutoronomy? If thats the case, then stick to the four gospels, and keep to what he said..
Because fact is, jesus did a few miracles that can easily be passed as alchemy.
But, what makes him different from any other sorceror claiming to be this-or-that's crowning tailfeathers?

Let me start back at the point of 'meditating allows for demons to enter one' and refer us to an example of a demon possessed person..
Remember that dude who had the legion of demons driven out of him?
He had strength, a fighting spirit.. A need to push back against the things arrayed against him..
Now, have you noticed before, in life, when you focus yourself in excess upon something and you start to feel that immense power, you lose your cares for other people? Slowly but surely, they become nothing but **** trying to steal your attention and distract you.. And you need more and more power just to shake them off?
Its not entirely like that, but something like that, i imagine that dude must've went through.. Because the irony is that, demons can only habitate or influence people who bears something against others.. And just to illustrate the narrowness of this margin- a person can be howeverly as empty minded as he wishes, but, the true nature of oneself can't be erased, only be complimented by an opposite.

 

[cryogenized]

Another reason of possession i can think of, is per the churchly 'evangelical' spirit.. That force of righteous fury that jesus demonstrated when he threw the gamblers' table over in the synagogue.. Ironically, the same place in which he opposed the pharisees..
Now imagine- some dude dressed pretty normal, with a revolutionary theory had to enter your church and started preaching against the leadership and respected elders of the ministry.. Would he do miracles to prove himself? Jesus then said that the people would seek signs and wonders yet would not find it..

In laymans, he was the person of that day, who sold people the biggest load of politically incorrecy BS.. The people bought into it for a while by the masses like you can't imagine.. Dinned with ho's and embezzlement thugs who operated as tax men. But why did he do that? Why to them? .. He only wanted to save those who still had hope- he never asked to be deitified; just wanted to give the stubborn, tradition-bound jews a fair fighting chance in life, by educating them about what they last expected from their grand prophesied messiah- a deluded tradesman preaching that they are suffering, because they fighting inside themselves.. Clinging to the hope that their old testament god would save them from roman oppression.

 

[cryogenized]

The tearing of the veil? The disillusioning.. Destroying what people thought was sacred and holy.. The thing people affixed so much ****ing sentiment to, that they prefered the little fairytale of god-will-deliver-us-from-oppression it afforded them, over what was always there with them from the start.

 

[cryogenized]

The things people couldn't let go of.. The cages they didn't feel like getting out of, because prison food was a security and a peace-of-mind that they didn't want to do without.

 

[Yoshua]

My way of meditation has been a simple path of 'just breathing' - programming myself to breath full strokes.. Letting whatever thought occur as it wishes, but prioritizing breathing..
If one prioritizes thought over breath, one develops strong feelings inside of one that later starts to cognitively trigger and later on, causes you to think yourself into self-defeating circles that spiral down to depression..

If you still feel that meditation opens doors to the demonic for you, then face your demons and -breathe-

Hi Cryo,

So did the Scripture told us to do breathing as casting out demons and meditations?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Hi Yoshua,

I did not mean literally "nothing". The mind, in its bare and pure state, is not "nothing". The point I was making was that (if you read back) contemplation is a supreme act of humility and self-surrender whereby our minds are conformed to the example of Christ, who "emptied" himself and became as "nothing" (ie no repute, a human being). In the same way, by a sort of parallel means, to attain the mind of Christ we have to "empty" ourselves of our "human" thoughts and desires so as to put on Christ just as He for us put on an inferior human nature. It is in keeping with the ancient saying, "God became man that might become god". Just as Christ "emptied" himself to the human level, thus we are to "empty" ourselves through grace to the divine through the humility of contemplative prayer.

Hi Vouthon,

Do you have a supporting Scripture for your statement “to attain the mind of Christ we have to "empty" ourselves of our "human" thoughts and desires so as to put on Christ just as He for us put on an inferior human nature.”?

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

So did the Scripture told us to do breathing as casting out demons and meditations?

Why does that matter? Does scripture tell you to talk about Christian themes using the internet?

 

[dogfishparisi]

In my experience as a Catholic we are encouraged to meditate. But then again YouTube says the Catholic church is evil.

 

[dogfishparisi]

Can you support your claim that, to christians, any spirit that isn't God is a demon?

I have heard it posited that since we all 'sleep' after death, awaiting the day of judgement, that demons are what we mistake as spirits, ghosts, whatever...

 

[sassysam29]

Why does that matter? Does scripture tell you to talk about Christian themes using the internet?

It matters because you and windtalker keep using examples of FLESH activities that have absolutely ZERO relevance in spiritual matters. God doesn't say "test the coca cola and see if it's of Him", He says "Test the SPIRIT!!!!!. There's no doubt that God is silent on MANY things that we ascribe to our Christian lives, and on those matters (air conditioning, carpet, stained glass windows yada yada), we have liberty to utilize modern day conveniences, but this is SPIRIT and needs to be examined closely because God says so.

 

[sojourner]

It matters because you and windtalker keep using examples of FLESH activities that have absolutely ZERO relevance in spiritual matters. God doesn't say "test the coca cola and see if it's of Him", He says "Test the SPIRIT!!!!!.

As I've said before, that's part of what we do in meditation -- test the spirit. Because testing the spirit is accomplished far better through intuition than through cognition.

There's no doubt that God is silent on MANY things that we ascribe to our Christian lives, and on those matters (air conditioning, carpet, stained glass windows yada yada), we have liberty to utilize modern day conveniences, but this is SPIRIT and needs to be examined closely because God says so.

Holy Crap!! It's been examined closely since the 3rd century, and found desirable as part of a complete immersion in spiritual formation. What more do you want?!

 

[sassysam29]

As I've said before, that's part of what we do in meditation -- test the spirit. Because testing the spirit is accomplished far better through intuition than through cognition.

Holy Crap!! It's been examined closely since the 3rd century, and found desirable as part of a complete immersion in spiritual formation. What more do you want?!

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Is there any reason beyond simple superstition to impute "demonic activity" to meditation practices?

That superstition has as much value as any other thing that an idiot says.