Why Do Christians insist meditation is "dangerous"?

[sassysam29]

If meditation is biblically practiced, it's all good!

 

[sojourner]

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

This simply isn't cogent to the question I asked.

 

[sassysam29]

As I've said before, that's part of what we do in meditation -- test the spirit. Because testing the spirit is accomplished far better through intuition than through cognition.

Holy Crap!! It's been examined closely since the 3rd century, and found desirable as part of a complete immersion in spiritual formation. What more do you want?!

Spiritual formation is a fluid concept to me. It is too broad with many unbiblical and biblical applications. It's like muddy water. I don't know you and your heart, so this is just my opinion according to my study of scriptures, and I am sure you have your opinions according to your study of scriptures, but one thing for sure, neither of our interpretations of scriptures changes the scriptures. ........also, "it's "desirable as part of a complete immersion in spiritual formation" According to who?

 

[sojourner]

one thing for sure, neither of our interpretations of scriptures changes the scriptures.

The scriptures don't proscribe contemplative prayer.

"it's "desirable as part of a complete immersion in spiritual formation" According to who?

According to the church. It's taught in accredited, denominational seminaries. It's encouraged by Christian clergy. It's practiced by Christian, spiritual communities. It's recognized by mental health professionals. It's praised by countless practitioners.

 

[sassysam29]

The scriptures don't proscribe contemplative prayer.

According to the church. It's taught in accredited, denominational seminaries. It's encouraged by Christian clergy. It's practiced by Christian, spiritual communities. It's recognized by mental health professionals. It's praised by countless practitioners.

You see Sojourner, I have spent a lifetime listening to fast talking people convincing me of whatever "truth" met their own personal needs, (and yes, even in the "church") needs that usually cost me dearly. I have trusted people for far too long, so TRUTH and TRUST are very important to me. Simply because some highly educated man that has written numerous books with a trail of doctorate degrees behind his name says something is so, I will ALWAYS respond with "what does Gods word say". Let God be TRUE and EVERY man a liar. Maybe it took me being star struck by intellectuals and religious gurus to finally understand the true nature of how good God is. I speak from experience when I say GOD SAYS to take Heed according to the SCRIPTURES.....NOT according to churches, spiritual communities, mental health professionals or countless practitioners, whilst all these can contribute highly positive things (and they do), they are by no means the standard in which I personally will put my trust.

 

[sojourner]

You see Sojourner, I have spent a lifetime listening to fast talking people convincing me of whatever "truth" met their own personal needs, (and yes, even in the "church") needs that usually cost me dearly. I have trusted people for far too long, so TRUTH and TRUST are very important to me. Simply because some highly educated man that has written numerous books with a trail of doctorate degrees behind his name says something is so, I will ALWAYS respond with "what does Gods word say". Let God be TRUE and EVERY man a liar. Maybe it took me being star struck by intellectuals and religious gurus to finally understand the true nature of how good God is. I speak from experience when I say GOD SAYS to take Heed according to the SCRIPTURES.....NOT according to churches, spiritual communities, mental health professionals or countless practitioners, whilst all these can contribute highly positive things (and they do), they are by no means the standard in which I personally will put my trust.

But you understand that, when you read the bible, you're only gleaning your understanding from your perspective, so what you're getting is your truth -- not some objective, "absolute" truth. And that's what happens in contemplative prayer: you glean a deeper perspective, based upon your point of view, so what you're getting is your truth. There's simply no way around your perspective, unless you work in community. Those other perspectives are not only important, but necessary. Your "standard" is your own.

 

[sassysam29]

But you understand that, when you read the bible, you're only gleaning your understanding from your perspective, so what you're getting is your truth -- not some objective, "absolute" truth. And that's what happens in contemplative prayer: you glean a deeper perspective, based upon your point of view, so what you're getting is your truth. There's simply no way around your perspective, unless you work in community. Those other perspectives are not only important, but necessary. Your "standard" is your own.

a person steals something
I say they didn't
You say they did
Our own individual truth does not change the truth.

There will always be differences in how we interpret truth but it doesn't change the truth. Many doctrinal issues are debated and mulled over without resolve, but God is the discerner of people's hearts and only He knows who is and who isn't in Christ. I trust that the God that saved me is the one who guides me in HIS truth through The Holy Spirit. I can only speak for myself when I say that God speaks to me through the scriptures. It's not about me or what I think or feel anymore. Every person determines who He will serve and How He will go about it, but in all humbleness, I myself will choose Gods word.



22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. An. this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

 

[sojourner]

Every person determines who He will serve and How He will go about it, but in all humbleness, I myself will choose Gods word.

Ok. So you're choosing serving your interpretation of the bible over everything else. In all humility, of course.

 

[sojourner]

a person steals something
I say they didn't
You say they did
Our own individual truth does not change the truth.

Who's to say who's right? Only the person in question knows his own truth. I don't know it; you don't know it. Therefore, my truth is, I don't know whether he stole or not. Your truth is you don't know whether he stole or not. Remember: even American law stipulates that guilt is established only beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[sassysam29]

Ok. So you're choosing serving your interpretation of the bible over everything else. In all humility, of course.

No, I choose to serve God and allow Him to interpret His word to me through the Holy Spirit. And truly, you really have no idea from where I speak, so when I say in all humility, I mean in all humility. So, if you have aligned my character with some others you are mistaken.

 

[psychoslice]

Many Christians are very superstitious about many things, and I have to say ignorant, I know, I was once one.

 

[sassysam29]

Who's to say who's right? Only the person in question knows his own truth. I don't know it; you don't know it. Therefore, my truth is, I don't know whether he stole or not. Your truth is you don't know whether he stole or not. Remember: even American law stipulates that guilt is established only beyond a reasonable doubt.

You are absolutely right! But the truth exists regardless of our interpretation or lack of knowing.

 

[sojourner]

No, I choose to serve God and allow Him to interpret His word to me through the Holy Spirit. And truly, you really have no idea from where I speak, so when I say in all humility, I mean in all humility. So, if you have aligned my character with some others you are mistaken.

That's not what your post said, but nevertheless. God's job isn't interpretation. That's our job. And you can only interpret what the Holy Spirit imparts through your own filter of perspective. There is no absolute.

 

[sojourner]

You are absolutely right! But the truth exists regardless of our interpretation or lack of knowing.

Truth exists. We cannot know it objectively.

 

[psychoslice]

Truth exists. We cannot know it objectively.

Me likes.

 

[sassysam29]

But you understand that, when you read the bible, you're only gleaning your understanding from your perspective, so what you're getting is your truth -- not some objective, "absolute" truth. And that's what happens in contemplative prayer: you glean a deeper perspective, based upon your point of view, so what you're getting is your truth. There's simply no way around your perspective, unless you work in community. Those other perspectives are not only important, but necessary. Your "standard" is your own.

The standard is my own because I have accepted it as such. It's not my job to make it anyone else's standard or to legislate it or to mandate it or to hold those who don't believe it accountable to it. It is my own personal choice. It's true freedom.

 

[sojourner]

The standard is my own because I have accepted it as such. It's not my job to make it anyone else's standard or to legislate it or to mandate it or to hold those who don't believe it accountable to it. It is my own personal choice. It's true freedom.

It's still not absolute.

 

[sassysam29]

It's still not absolute.

That's your ABSOLUTE liberty to believe

 

[sassysam29]

I think Jesus may have been a libertarian also wink wink

 

[sassysam29]

But you understand that, when you read the bible, you're only gleaning your understanding from your perspective, so what you're getting is your truth -- not some objective, "absolute" truth. And that's what happens in contemplative prayer: you glean a deeper perspective, based upon your point of view, so what you're getting is your truth. There's simply no way around your perspective, unless you work in community. Those other perspectives are not only important, but necessary. Your "standard" is your own.

Not really sure why community and my own personal faith has anything to do with one another. As long as I do not push my faith onto others there shouldn't be a problem. Do we have to be a collective whole in order to be a productive community? Where is diversity and freedom in that statement? Of course others perspectives are important and useful in any community? Are you assuming that I think anyone outside of my faith is of no benefit to myself or my family? To me, faith is not what a community is or should be rooted in (that's what our church bodies are for), community is helping my neighbor regardless of agreeing with their faith or their lifestyles, it's allowing everyone to be free to choose, yet loving them the same. I don't have to agree with you to love you and be part of a productive community?