Why do Gentiles assume they should follow the ten commandments?

[sojourner]

And neither does a "Jew" need to become Christian to be "saved".

Did I say that they did? Anywhere in my posts here? At all? Has anyone on this forum ever heard me say that -- or say that Jews aren't saved?

Xy isn't about "salvation." It's about a way of life that leads to reconciliation with God.

 

[sojourner]

But I do not believe in casual syncretism, or in non-Jews appropriating Jewish scripture, language, tradition, culture, or history to call it their own.

Thank you for saying that. It settles the whole argument about xtians "inventing holidays" that Jesus didn't celebrate. Of course Jesus didn't celebrate Christmas. Or Easter. Jesus was Jewish. We Gentiles are not.

 

[sojourner]

I believe the words of the Messiah whereas you dont. You believe the words of a god called jesus whom they preach to you in church.

That's a pretty judgmental statement to make. And filled with biased assumptions that simply are not true.

 

[sojourner]

The Jewish guy called Yeshua who has COMPLETELY, ..... a different message than your jesus.

You've been reading different gospels???

 

[sojourner]

I say the same thing about "Christianity", that its meant only for Jews and Torah followers, the problem is it got highjacked about 40 years after its founding by the anti-Judaizing gentiles.

Yeah, but that goes against the grain of everything Jesus taught in Matthew.

 

[sojourner]

Whatever...... I want nothing to do with jesus. How can you take a Ford manual and try to service a Mercedes Benz ?

spark plugs are spark plugs, pistons are pistons, and mixture is mixture. Computers, ABS systems, bluetooth, and blind spot sensors are all frou-frou. (BTW, Ford now has a better reliability track record than Mercedes. Guess those Ford guys know something, after all!)

 

[-Peacemaker-]

That's a pretty judgmental statement to make. And filled with biased assumptions that simply are not true.

I'm willing to wager that he's correct in saying that I reject whatever his undertanding of Jesus' words is

 

[sojourner]

I'm willing to wager that he's correct in saying that I reject whatever his undertanding of Jesus' words is

Probably.
Seems a little angry about the whole thing to me.

 

[Shermana]

Yeah, but that goes against the grain of everything Jesus taught in Matthew.

Is today opposite day or something? Feel free to explain in detail with scriptural backing how you can possibly in any way keep a straight face with that statement.

But then again, I'm talking to someone who insists that Matthew 5:17-20 is an interpolation and then provided me with a link saying that such contentions have no scholarly standing and no scholar dares outright publish such an idea.

 

[roberto]

Did I say that they did? Anywhere in my posts here? At all? Has anyone on this forum ever heard me say that -- or say that Jews aren't saved?

Xy isn't about "salvation." It's about a way of life that leads to reconciliation with God.

Did I say you did ? Don't be so jumpy, I was merely adding to your conversation like you are now with your "salvation".

Thank you for saying that. It settles the whole argument about xtians "inventing holidays" that Jesus didn't celebrate. Of course Jesus didn't celebrate Christmas. Or Easter. Jesus was Jewish. We Gentiles are not.

But he celebrated the Feasts of YHVH did he not ?

That's a pretty judgmental statement to make. And filled with biased assumptions that simply are not true.

Then prove to me that the Jewish Yeshua attended christ-mas or easter.

You've been reading different gospels???

Did Yeshua once state that he would be in the grave for only two days ? Prove it scripturally.

spark plugs are spark plugs, pistons are pistons, and mixture is mixture. Computers, ABS systems, bluetooth, and blind spot sensors are all frou-frou. (BTW, Ford now has a better reliability track record than Mercedes. Guess those Ford guys know something, after all!)

Nope, Have you ever serviced a vehicle ? Those numbers on the parts tell you which vehicle they belong in.

Probably.
Seems a little angry about the whole thing to me.

2Pe 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb, "The dog turns to his own vomit again, "and "the sow that has washed to wallowing in the mire."
I /we , will never turn back to the vomit/mire.
.

 

[roberto]

I'm willing to wager that he's correct in saying that I reject whatever his undertanding of Jesus' words is

Then you belong to the right/correct club.
.

 

[roberto]

I wonder what happend to my friend "Levite" ?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Probably.
Seems a little angry about the whole thing to me.

Almost always when people that were once Christians reject the Jesus they had committed to following it's due to some event, often very painful, which tested their faith. When such faith crises result in one choosing to believe that God abandoned them or never existed in the first place bitterness almost always takes hold.

 

[Shermana]

Almost always when people that were once Christians reject the Jesus they had committed to following it's due to some event, often very painful, which tested their faith. When such faith crises result in one choosing to believe that God abandoned them or never existed in the first place bitterness almost always takes hold.

Or its because they realize almost everything they've been taught about him is a total lie based on totally fraudulent yet historically "mainstream" views that defy what both the text (in non-cherry picked, in-context form) and scholars say?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Or its because they realize almost everything they've been taught about him is a total lie based on totally fraudulent yet historically "mainstream" views that defy what both the text (in non-cherry picked, in-context form) and scholars say?

Actualty, this line of thought comes later in the process as one tries to reassure himself that he made the right decision

 

[Levite]

You mean; become part of the one-tribed Kingdom?

I mean become part of the Jewish People. There has not been a Jewish Kingdom since the Hasmonean monarchy fell to Rome in 63 BCE.

Ahhh,.. but such was the reply to Joseph as well, im sure.

I have no clue what you are talking about.

How sure are you that you are a descendant of or son of Zadok?

As sure as most levi'im and kohanim are what they say they are.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Actualty, this line of thought comes later in the process as one tries to reassure himself that he made the right decision

And after one has reread the evidence from several more clear-headed perspectives [which often only time and healing bring] to make sure that's what it said

 

[roberto]

Almost always when people that were once Christians reject the Jesus they had committed to following it's due to some event, often very painful, which tested their faith. When such faith crises result in one choosing to believe that God abandoned them or never existed in the first place bitterness almost always takes hold.

Nope, wrong analysis.

All my life I merely attended church like a zombie [programmed], believing that that could somehow "get me into heaven where all christians want to go]"

Then Yahweh gave me/us a test....Took His child back which in any event He only loaned us for a short period.

We wanted to find the truth about where she was taken and started searching/studying the Bible.

That my dear friend is when we discovered the lies we were programmed with.

So, no sire , we are very glad she was taken back, as the Father new beforehand what would get us[myself and wife] onto His path of truth.

I'd gladly answer more questions if you have any.

 

[roberto]

Or its because they realize almost everything they've been taught about him is a total lie based on totally fraudulent yet historically "mainstream" views that defy what both the text (in non-cherry picked, in-context form) and scholars say?

You are so spot on !

Funnily enough, we started downloading mp3's from a Synagogue in America[Kehilatariel], which has 50% ex-christians and 50% Messianic-Jews, that we listened to every Shabbat.
http://www.kehilatariel.org/wordpress/?page_id=91

 

[roberto]

I mean become part of the Jewish People. There has not been a Jewish Kingdom since the Hasmonean monarchy fell to Rome in 63 BCE.

The house of Judah and the House of Israel will only be united once they appoint for themselves a King:

The Complete Jewish Bible with Rashi Commetary
Yechezkel - Ezekiel - Chapter 37
21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land.
22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore.
23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God.
24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them.
25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever.
26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever.
27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people.
28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever.

I have no clue what you are talking about.

Neither did Judah when Joseph told him he[Joseph] was their brother.

As sure as most levi'im and kohanim are what they say they are.

Yes but you guys must be sweating it out for worry of what is coming to you when the Temple is built[may it be soon] , ..[if you are not descendants of Zadok.] :>

The Complete Jewish Bible with Rashi Commetary
Yechezkel - Ezekiel - Chapter 43
18. And He said to me; Son of man, thus says the Lord God: These are the ordinances of the altar on the day when it will be made, to offer burnt offerings thereon and to sprinkle blood thereon.
19. And you shall give it to the priests, the Levites, who are of the seed of Zadok, who are near to Me, says the Lord God, to serve Me, a young bull for a sin-offering.

Yechezkel - Ezekiel - Chapter 44
10. Only the Levites who distanced themselves from Me when Israel strayed from Me after their idols, and they shall bear their iniquity.
11. And they shall be ministers in My Sanctuary, appointed over the gates of the House; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifices for the people, and they shall stand before them to serve them.
12. Because they served them before their idols and were for the House of Israel as a stumbling block of iniquity; therefore, I lifted My Hand upon them, says the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13. And they shall not approach Me to serve Me, or to approach all My hallowed things in addition to the most holy things, and they shall bear their disgrace and their abominations, which they committed.
14. And I will make them keepers of the watch of the House for all its service and for all that is performed in it.

15. But the priests, the Levites, the sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of My sanctuary when the Children of Israel went astray from Me, they shall come near Me to minister to Me, and they shall stand before Me to offer Me fat and blood, says the Lord God.
16. They shall enter My Sanctuary, and they shall approach My Table to minister to Me, and they shall keep My charge.
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16142/showrashi/true
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