Why do Gentiles assume they should follow the ten commandments?

[Tbone]

Doesn't the Torah say that it was given to the Jewish people?

:no:

Why do Gentiles assume they should follow the ten commandments?

Why not? That's what the Bible teaches.

 

[Levite]

The house of Judah and the House of Israel will only be united once they appoint for themselves a King:Ezekiel - Chapter 37:21-28

That's a messianic prophecy of complete union. The messiah hasn't come yet. I already noted that the tribes making up the Southern Kingdom became united with only a small portion of the tribes making up the Northern Kingdom, and the rest of the latter were lost. When the messiah does come, the descendants of the Lost Tribes will return to us, and all will be united. That's one of the many ways we know that the messiah has not yet come-- full union hasn't happened yet.

Neither did Judah when Joseph told him he[Joseph] was their brother.

I see no relevance in this statement to anything in this thread.

Yes but you guys must be sweating it out for worry of what is coming to you when the Temple is built[may it be soon],if you are not descendants of Zadok

The Rabbis of the Talmud tell us that only the Zadokite Levites and Kohanim were part of the Pharisaic movement-- the others were Sadducees. Therefore, all Rabbinic Jews who are levi'im and kohanim are descended from Zadokite branches of the tribes. And there are also many authorities who say that when the messiah comes and the Temple is rebuilt, the prophecies of exclusion will only apply to those non-Zadokite levi'im and kohanim who have not repented the errors of their ancestors and accepted the authority of the high priest that the messiah will appoint.

 

[roberto]

...Why not? That's what the Bible teaches.

The "new testament" teaches that followers should go to Synagogue and study Torah[the first 5 books called Moses].
Thus , what is contained in the Torah ? All the instructions.

 

[roberto]

That's a messianic prophecy of complete union. The messiah hasn't come yet. I already noted that the tribes making up the Southern Kingdom became united with only a small portion of the tribes making up the Northern Kingdom, and the rest of the latter were lost. When the messiah does come, the descendants of the Lost Tribes will return to us, and all will be united. That's one of the many ways we know that the messiah has not yet come-- full union hasn't happened yet.

I agree !:yes:

I see no relevance in this statement to anything in this thread.

When Josephs brothers visited Joseph from Egypt did they recognise Joseph ? Similarly , we [of the ten tribes]that are still in "Egypt"/diaspora , when conversing with you on the Internet , are not recognised by you guys calling yourself Yehudah. [I'm not sure if you call this "Sod" / hidden meaning].

The Rabbis of the Talmud tell us that only the Zadokite Levites and Kohanim were part of the Pharisaic movement-- the others were Sadducees. Therefore, all Rabbinic Jews who are levi'im and kohanim are descended from Zadokite branches of the tribes. And there are also many authorities who say that when the messiah comes and the Temple is rebuilt, the prophecies of exclusion will only apply to those non-Zadokite levi'im and kohanim who have not repented the errors of their ancestors and accepted the authority of the high priest that the messiah will appoint.

Well then I am glad for you , cause I would have had sleepless nights as a "Levite" knowing that the Beit HaMikdash is about to be built. But on the other hand, if YHVH can forgive the house of Israel with their sins[Pesa] why would he not forgive those Levites that repents :>

The Complete Babylonian Talmud in one volume
Talmud - Mas. Kiddushin 40b
"...And even if one is completely wicked all his life but repents5 at
the end, he is not reproached with his wickedness,6 for it is said, and as for the wickedness of the
wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness.7 Yet let it be
regarded8 as half transgressions and half meritorious deeds! — Said Resh Lakish: It means that he
regretted his former deeds.9..."

Ps. Would you be so kind as to copy paste reference of the Talmud ?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Then Yahweh gave me/us a test....
.

I certainly don't expect you to interpret the events of your deconverstion the way I do but usually this is the common thread. By the way I'm so sorry about your lose

 

[CMike]

whether you think that torah was given by god to the jewish people, or whether you think that torah was written by jewish authors for the jewish people, the point remains the same. It's a jewish text, with jewish rules, intended for jews, and designed to be interpreted by jewish methodologies.

I get that christians feel that somehow their covenant with jesus entitles them to connect to jewish text. But i have never understood the contention that while jesus' covenant somehow frees them from the obligation to keep the commandments of the old covenant, they still free free to cite and rely upon those of the commandments that they like or relate to (like the ten commandments, or, in many cases those concerning homosexuality and other forbidden sexual relations; but they can dispense with those that they dislike or do not relate to, like keeping kosher, rules of shaatnez (forbidden mixtures, like linen and wool), or observing the holidays.

It's always seemed to me that torah, and the obligation to do mitzvot (commandments) is entire: One either accepts the entirety of torah and the attendant obligations, or one accepts none of it. But in torah there is no rule of halfsies: One can redefine certain obligations using the rules of halakhah, but one cannot simply cherry-pick a few mitzvot you like, and then dispense with all of those you feel are too confining or troublesome, with a shrug and a whistle.

At least, that's how i understand things.

+1000

 

[sojourner]

The "new testament" teaches that followers should go to Synagogue and study Torah[the first 5 books called Moses].

Please cite the reference for this.

 

[roberto]

... By the way I'm so sorry about your lose

Nope, we did not lose her , we know where she is.
Question to you: Why would you be sorry, if I am glad she was taken and is in safe custody?

 

[roberto]

Please cite the reference for this.

Act 15:19 "Therefore my judgment is that we don’t trouble those from among the Gentiles who turn to God,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from the pollution of idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses from generations of old has in every city those who proclaim him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

Not only does it say they must read/study Moses, but they should attend Synagogues on Saturday !

Question is; Was Act written before or after the xfiction ? Because Christians say that after the xfiction the Torah/Moses was abolished even though they say the Torah was made flesh.

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay no greater burden on you than these necessary things:
Act 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality, from which if you keep yourselves, it will be well with you. Farewell."

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Question to you: Why would you be sorry, if I am glad she was taken and is safe?

Because I don't believe you feel that way deep down. I think it's something that you wish you felt. You probably tell youself that you feel that way but I don't see how any parent could about such a loss. I'm not even sure it'd be healthy to feel that way.

 

[roberto]

+1000

The Complete Babylonian Talmud in one volume
Talmud - Mas. Kiddushin 40b :
GEMARA. R. Eleazar son of R. Zadok said: To what are the righteous compared in this world? To a tree standing wholly in a place of cleanness, but its bough overhangs to a place of uncleanness; when the bough is lopped off, it stands entirely in a place of cleanness. Thus the Holy One, blessed be He, brings suffering upon the righteous in this world,13 in order that they may inherit the future world, as it is said, and though thy beginning is small, yet thy latter end shall greatly increase.14

And to what are the wicked compared in this world? To a tree standing wholly in a place of uncleanness, but a branch thereof overhangs a place of cleanness: when the bough is lopped off, it stands entirely in a place of uncleanness. Thus the Holy One, blessed be He, makes them prosper15 in this world,16 in order to destroy and consign them to the nethermost rung, for it is said: There is a way which seemeth right unto man, But at the end thereof are the ways of death.17

Scared that we will "infect" "your" tree , if our "branches" were to touch?
.

 

[sojourner]

Act 15:19 "Therefore my judgment is that we don’t trouble those from among the Gentiles who turn to God,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they abstain from the pollution of idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses from generations of old has in every city those who proclaim him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

Not only does it say they must read/study Moses, but they should attend Synagogues on Saturday !

Question is; Was Act written before or after the xfiction ? Because Christians say that after the xfiction the Torah/Moses was abolished even though they say the Torah was made flesh.

Acts was written around 80 c.e. or so. I don't see any injunction there that Gentiles should follow Torah.

 

[roberto]

Acts was written around 80 c.e. or so. I don't see any injunction there that Gentiles should follow Torah.

No problem. As do christians.:yes:

 

[roberto]

Because I don't believe you feel that way deep down. I think it's something that you wish you felt. You probably tell youself that you feel that way but I don't see how any parent could about such a loss. I'm not even sure it'd be healthy to feel that way.

Then for sure you are not living in South Africa or for sure you do not understand what awaits the Nations in the near future. [Time of Jacobs trouble].
Would you rather sugest :
1. Alcohol.
2. Drugs.
3. Psycologysts.
4. Satanism.
:yes: ?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Then for sure you are not living in South Africa or for sure you do not understand what awaits the Nations in the near future. [Time of Jacobs trouble].
Would you rather sugest :
1. Alcohol.
2. Drugs.
3. Psycologysts.
4. Satanism.
:yes: ?

I'd put turning away from Jesus up on that list, but that's just me. In fact, from a biblical standpoint that is Satanism

 

[roberto]

I'd put turning away from Jesus up on that list, but that's just me. In fact, from a biblical standpoint that is Satanism

What you dont understand is that I am following the Jewish Messiah, or do you believe your Bible tells you that he was Greek ? Please give me any reference to a Greek Messiah in your Bible.

If you can I will turn back to Christianity, how's that for a dare ? Comon you guys feel you have to prozletise then here is your chance to earn points with your Greek messiah.

I can give you Bile reference that he was a Jew, but then again , you Christians hate Jews don't you and that makes you EVIL by hating the Jew in the Messiah.
.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

What you dont understand is that I am following the Jewish Messiah, or do you believe your Bible tells you that he was Greek ? Please give me any reference to a Greek Messiah in your Bible.

If you can I will turn back to Christianity, hows that for a dare ? Comon you guys feel you have to prozletise then here is your chance to earn points with your Greek messiah

This guy was Greek?


Matthew 1:

1 This is the genealogy[a] of Jesus the Messiah[b] the son of David, the son of Abraham:
2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
Hezron the father of Ram,
4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
Nahshon the father of Salmon,
5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,
6 and Jesse the father of King David.

David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,
7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
Abijah the father of Asa,
8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,
Amon the father of Josiah,
11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.

12 After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
Abihud the father of Eliakim,
Eliakim the father of Azor,
14 Azor the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Akim,
Akim the father of Elihud,
15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,
16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.

17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.



edit: you really feel like this gem was worth taking the time to edit in?

"I can give you Bile reference that he was a Jew, but then again , you Christians hate Jews don't you and that makes you EVIL by hating the Jew in the Messiah."

 

[roberto]

This guy was Greek?

You will not find one guy in Israel called "jesus". Why?
As far as I know every second guy in Portugal is named jesus. Why ?

...you really feel like this gem was worth taking the time to edit in?
"I can give you Bile reference that he was a Jew, but then again , you Christians hate Jews don't you and that makes you EVIL by hating the Jew in the Messiah."

Hey, what can I say, I'm a bit slow [56 years] writing out of a 3rd world country[we tend to be slow], with 40 years of filth behind me. But the offer still stands.
.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Hey, what can I say, I'm a bit slow [56 years] with 40 years of filth behind me. But the offer still stands.
.

What offer? There's no biblical argument in the entire Christian Bible that supports the assertion that Jesus was Greek instead of Jewish. It sounds like the kind of argument you find convincing is one that is based on the translation of names given to children between cultures

 

[roberto]

What offer? There's no biblical argument in the entire Christian Bible that supports the assertion that Jesus was Greek instead of Jewish. It sounds like the kind of argument you find convincing is one that is based on the translation of names given to children between cultures

"...And to what are the wicked compared in this world? To a tree standing wholly in a place of uncleanness..."

No wonder the Jews don't want to converse with goy.