Why Do Gods Need To Be Worshipped

[rojse]

Why do gods need to be worshipped? (I apologise if this topic has already been discussed i did search for one)

And im talking about all gods, not just yours in particular so please don't get uppity?

I mean most gods are considered 'omnipotent' all powerful. That means they shouldn't need us in any way shape or form. But yet they still require worship from their followers.

So i've been pondering this and i've come up with some theories:

A. The gods are not all powerful but get their power from our worship.
B. The gods are narcissistic egotistical beings who require the ego strokes they get from worship.

Any other possibilities?

-Q

Putting on my theist hat for a moment, I have to say I love Pratchett's view of why gods need to be worshipped in "Small Gods" - if gods are not worshipped, they do not exist.

 

[Storm]

Putting on my theist hat for a moment, I have to say I love Pratchett's view of why gods need to be worshipped in "Small Gods" - if gods are not worshipped, they do not exist.

This is similar to what I touched on waaaaay back in post 7. I don't think most of them will die without worship, but it does feed them.

 

[rojse]

This is similar to what I touched on waaaaay back in post 7. I don't think most of them will die without worship, but it does feed them.

This actually ties in with maltheism, of all things - not worshipping God will make him lose his power (from my understanding of maltheism).

I must say that I love maltheism, just for how people can start off with the same theological data that a theist has, and come to the exact opposite conclusion about the nature of God.

 

[Storm]

This actually ties in with maltheism, of all things - not worshipping God will make him lose his power (from my understanding of maltheism).

Actually, I believe you're thinking of misotheism (Wiki). Maltheism is just the belief that God is evil. I was a maltheist briefly, and I didn't think there was anything I could do about it.

I must say that I love maltheism, just for how people can start off with the same theological data that a theist has, and come to the exact opposite conclusion about the nature of God.

Theology's funny that way.

ETA: Me, I think it's the height of irresponsibility to worship any God without first evaluating its worth.

 

[rojse]

Actually, I believe you're thinking of misotheism (Wiki). Maltheism is just the belief that God is evil. I was a maltheist briefly, and I didn't think there was anything I could do about it.

Theology's funny that way.

ETA: Me, I think it's the height of irresponsibility to worship any God without first evaluating its worth.

I consider myself to have actually learned something tonight. Not that this is of practical use (it's theology, after all ) but it does give my brain food for thought, and I will have to bring up misotheism in another debate if I get the chance. Frubals.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

So if we view deities from a misotheisitic viewpoint, then the gods need to start giving us some tangible benefits or they are going to end up wimpering in the corner powerless and useless.

-Q

 

[Storm]

So if we view deities from a misotheisitic viewpoint, then the gods need to start giving us some tangible benefits or they are going to end up wimpering in the corner powerless and useless.

I think those of this nature used to, but since belief/ worship has tapered off, they now have less power to do so. Which in turn, causes belief/ worship to dwindle further. For them, it's a vicious cycle.

Irrational beliefs in gods that have no evidence cannot last forever. One day theists are going to grow a brain of some sort.

That was uncalled for.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I would expect you to be able to do better than that, Quaxotic. Surely, by now, you would have met some intelligent, rational, well-reasoned theists on here.

Yes i have, however there is still the problem of the fact that there is no evidence of their god. This is a sticking point for me, it makes no sense.

As a student of the human mind i understand the need to believe in a higher power. I really do. I am quite jealous of those that can, the sense of peace that a theist must feel in being able to believe there is someone out there looking out for us must be awesome. But alas and alack i am destined to only be able to rely on the things i can empirically sense.

I do however apologise it was rather nasty and i will remove the comment if i can.

-Q

 

[Storm]

Yes i have, however there is still the problem of the fact that there is no evidence of their god.

Ah, but there is: personal experience. Now, that's not compelling for those to whome it's merely anecdotal, but to the recipient, it can range from mild confirmation of pre-existing beliefs to earth-shattering revelation. I've had the latter type, myself, and I was an atheist for me.

This is a sticking point for me, it makes no sense.

Lacking such an experience yourself (so I assume), that's perfectly reasonable. But can you not make allowance for the fact that others' life experiences differ from yours?

As a student of the human mind i understand the need to believe in a higher power. I really do.

I have no such need.

I am quite jealous of those that can, the sense of peace that a theist must feel in being able to believe there is someone out there looking out for us must be awesome.

I often envy theists the simple comforts of their faith, as well.

But alas and alack i am destined to only be able to rely on the things i can empirically sense.

This intrigues me. If you had an experience of God, would you disregard it due to its subjective nature?

I do however apologise it was rather nasty and i will remove the comment if i can.

Thanks.

 

[rojse]

Yes i have, however there is still the problem of the fact that there is no evidence of their god. This is a sticking point for me, it makes no sense.

I would amend this statement and say that there is no physical evidence of God. There are lots of eye-witness accounts and personal experiences, for example. It is evidence, albeit not the sort that would sway yourself (or me, for that matter).

 

[Azakel]

ETA: Me, I think it's the height of irresponsibility to worship any God without first evaluating its worth.

Same here. That's why I think the are few gods that I have a connection with or will have anything to do with(but that's just me...I'm weird).

 

[Sunstone]

I think it's the height of irresponsibility to worship any God without first evaluating its worth.

You Ancient Greek!

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Ah, but there is: personal experience. Now, that's not compelling for those to whome it's merely anecdotal, but to the recipient, it can range from mild confirmation of pre-existing beliefs to earth-shattering revelation. I've had the latter type, myself, and I was an atheist for me.

Can it be recreated, can you help me experience this earth shattering revelation.

Don't get me wrong im just as critical of my own belief system.

Lacking such an experience yourself (so I assume), that's perfectly reasonable. But can you not make allowance for the fact that others' life experiences differ from yours?

Yep i can, i still think it's irrational without physical proof "(ohh noes we are getting into the proof debate again)

I have no such need.

I believe that the need i speak of is imbedded so deeply within the human psyche that most people are unaware of it.

This intrigues me. If you had an experience of God, would you disregard it due to its subjective nature?

No but i would question it, this still comes down to the 'if god is so powerful why can't he give us physical proof' debate.

And i just posted a thread on shamanism and OBEs. Dont worry i question whether or not that was real.

-Q

 

[rojse]

You Ancient Greek!

I'd take that as a compliment, myself - think of all of the mathematical, scientific, political and philosophical advances that the Greeks made that were central to Europe's social and cutural advancement.

 

[Storm]

Can it be recreated, can you help me experience this earth shattering revelation.

Don't get me wrong im just as critical of my own belief system.

No. A fact which probably frustrates me more than you.

I cannot crawl inside your head and allow you to experience what I did. This is no different than any other experience.

Yep i can, i still think it's irrational without physical proof

Why?

(ohh noes we are getting into the proof debate again)

I'd like to avoid the proof debate, as I'm bored with it.

I believe that the need i speak of is imbedded so deeply within the human psyche that most people are unaware of it.

On what grounds?

No but i would question it, this still comes down to the 'if god is so powerful why can't he give us physical proof' debate.

Well, my God is immune to that particular line of questioning.

And i just posted a thread on shamanism and OBEs. Dont worry i question whether or not that was real.

Again, why? Why not simply trust your perceptions?

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Why?

Because it is not rational to believe in something that cannot be objectively measured. Rather inflexible of me i know but im a virgo we are all about ration and logic.

I'd like to avoid the proof debate, as I'm bored with it.

Yes please

On what grounds?

Because almost every culture that is or has been in existance has come up with the belief of some kind of higher power. Why? There has to be something imbedded in our psychological make up that makes us do this.

Well, my God is immune to that particular line of questioning.

Would you like to tell us more about this please.

Again, why? Why not simply trust your perceptions?

Short Answer - My brain isn't wired that way.

Long Answer - Because i dont believe in a god without physical proof, how can i believe in an OBE without it? To do so would be hypocritical.

 

[Storm]

Because it is not rational to believe in something that cannot be objectively measured. Rather inflexible of me i know but im a virgo we are all about ration and logic.

You don't believe in love? Philosophy? Morality?

Because almost every culture that is or has been in existance has come up with the belief of some kind of higher power. Why? There has to be something imbedded in our psychological make up that makes us do this.

Indeed, we seem to be hardwired for God-belief. Me, I think this is because there's a God to believe in, which makes more sense than your speculations on my subconscious.

Would you like to tell us more about this please.

OK, the elevator speech: I believe in what someone cleverer than I dubbed "the living Godiverse." That God is a sapient organism whose body is the cosmos.

My concept is exempt from this line of question because we are God in a very real sense, or aspects of it, anyway. It doesn't communicate WITH us, but THROUGH us.

Long Answer - Because i dont believe in a god without physical proof, how can i believe in an OBE without it? To do so would be hypocritical.

Well, yes. But that doesn't answer the question.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

There is one belief system i do believe in and that is the eastern philosophy of ki or chi. I have seen real recreatable proof of its existence. I will try and step you through it.

First get someone weaker than you.

Now get them to hold out there arm fingers pointed out palm facing up.

Now get them to completely relax their arm and i mean completely relax otherwise it wont work.

Now get them to imagine that there is lasers pointing out of there fingers heading off into the distance

Now if done properly that arm will not be able to be bent.

I have seen a 40 year old man not be able to bend the arm of an 8 year old girl.

That i can believe in, there is physical proof and its recreatable.

 

[Storm]

There is one belief system i do believe in and that is the eastern philosophy of ki or chi. I have seen real recreatable proof of its existence. I will try and step you through it.

First get someone weaker than you.

Now get them to hold out there arm fingers pointed out palm facing up.

Now get them to completely relax their arm and i mean completely relax otherwise it wont work.

Now get them to imagine that there is lasers pointing out of there fingers heading off into the distance

Now if done properly that arm will not be able to be bent.

I have seen a 40 year old man not be able to bend the arm of an 8 year old girl.

That i can believe in, there is physical proof and its recreatable.

Well, one can learn to self-induce trance states in search of revelation, but it's tricky. It's still not physical, though.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

You don't believe in love? Philosophy? Morality?

These are human concepts and require no physical proof as they do not claim to affect the physical world.

Indeed, we seem to be hardwired for God-belief. Me, I think this is because there's a God to believe in, which makes more sense than your speculations on my subconscious.

How do you explain the vastly different views on the nature, shape and number of gods prevalent throughout history.

OK, the elevator speech: I believe in what someone cleverer than I dubbed "the living Godiverse." That God is a sapient organism whose body is the cosmos.

The truly beautiful thing about your belief is that there is evidence of the existence of your god as i can see, touch, taste, smell and here the cosmos. Which is much more proof than most religions can supply

Well, yes. But that doesn't answer the question.

Hmmmm ok, i dont trust my perceptions because perceptions can be changed by previous experiences, external stimuli and emotional states.

This being said i believe that the chaos view that 'everything is true and nothing is true' is quite valid as our perceptions influence our concept of reality and our perceptions are influenced by the above mentioned.

-Q