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Why Do Gods Need To Be Worshipped

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
Obviously, I don't believe that "God is only real in [my] head."

Of course you don't.

OK lets back track a little

Ah, but there is: personal experience. Now, that's not compelling for those to whome it's merely anecdotal, but to the recipient, it can range from mild confirmation of pre-existing beliefs to earth-shattering revelation. I've had the latter type, myself, and I was an atheist for me.

Personal experience without physical manifestations = All in the Head.

Since

Perceptions can be changed by previous experiences, external stimuli and emotional states.

and Perceptions = Reality

Therefore your personal experience cannot be trusted.

Until there is some physical manifestation of a god belief in this god is counter to the simple fact stated above.
 

ManTimeForgot

Temporally Challenged
Personal experience without physical manifestation = all in the head IFF you presume that signals are non-existent. All information transfer requires some form of medium (unless you believe in direct mind to mind unification...). This means some physical manifestation exists.

Perceptions = reality IFF you believe that reality is not external to yourself (extreme sollipsism).


And so because personal experience is somewhat subjective that means we cannot regard them with any trust? So that means that all information garnered by the senses must be disregarded? Extreme skepticism is little better than extreme sollipsism (one usually leads to the other). Incidentally, what would constitute "good" evidence of a supreme being? Anything we could understand I could just as easily chalk up to the universe being mysterious or aliens being super technically advanced...

MTF
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
Sigh

I'm over trying to explain my point.

If you want to learn more about how perceptions alter reality research cognitive behavioural therapy,

-Q
 

ManTimeForgot

Temporally Challenged
Seeing as how I have taken several college courses and have read multiple books on behavioral psychology, gestalt psychology, and cognitive behavior theory I can safely say I know what you are saying. What you are not seeing is that A) Your claim is false if are trying to argue that signals cannot be a part of external reality and are only a matter of internal world. & B) While our subjective experience is limited by our perception and our perceptions are able to be mislead, that is not by itself evidence to ignore "religious experiences." All our experiences are similarly "limited." So until you can show how the religious experience is less likely to be a true experience you must admit defeat.

MTF
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
So i've been pondering this and i've come up with some theories:

A. The gods are not all powerful but get their power from our worship.
B. The gods are narcissistic egotistical beings who require the ego strokes they get from worship.

Any other possibilities?

-Q

Sure, speaking for myself, there is within me an innate and profound feeling for admiration and love for existence.

Initially as a child it was mainly directed to my parents who seemed apparently to be the source of my existence, but as one grew and matured in experience and understanding then it naturally began to flow to that which is the true source of my existence, call this concept what you may, God, Brahman, Allah, etc., it is not important as it is only only meant to convey the presence of the underlying source of all cosmic existence.

Until this day, worship means to me the conscious awareness, admiration, and love for that which is the source of my heart beat and similtaneously the source of all heartbeats. Worship means just that, a voluntary overflowing of admiration, awe, and love for the transcendent source of one's existence.
 

The Neo Nerd

Well-Known Member
While our subjective experience is limited by our perception and our perceptions are able to be mislead, that is not by itself evidence to ignore "religious experiences."

Nor can it be used as proof of religious experiences.

So until you can show how the religious experience is less likely to be a true experience you must admit defeat.

I think Betrand Russell said it best when he said:

"Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake."

-Q
 
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ManTimeForgot

Temporally Challenged
I fail to see why the standard of "evidence" for religion should be different than science. I don't ask for proof whenever science comes up with something seemingly ridiculous. I ask for evidence.

One person's religious experience hardly counts as strong evidence of whatever truth they claim to have, hence I do not modify my current set of beliefs. You are, correct, in point out that the "burden of proof" is on a religion to establish it as so, but I am not going to go so far as to say that individual people's experiences count for nothing. If that were true, then science would be just as epistemically invalid as religion.

MTF
 

Doodlebug02

Active Member
Gods don't need to be worshiped. Gods are false gods. They are idols. There is only one God. His name is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He also goes by the name Jesus Christ. God has many names. He is worthy to be worshiped because He is holy, merciful, loving, and just. He is perfect! He created us to worship him.

Catechism of the Catholic Church said:
294 The glory of God consists in the realization of this manifestation and communication of his goodness, for which the world was created. God made us "to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace", for "the glory of God is man fully alive; moreover man's life is the vision of God: if God's revelation through creation has already obtained life for all the beings that dwell on earth, how much more will the Word's manifestation of the Father obtain life for those who see God." The ultimate purpose of creation is that God "who is the creator of all things may at last become "all in all", thus simultaneously assuring his own glory and our beatitude."

Also, from the Baltimore Catechism:

Baltimore Catechism said:
3. Why did God make us?

God made us to show forth His goodness and to share with us His everlasting happiness in heaven.
Eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man, what things God has prepared for those who love him. (I Corinthians 2:9)

4. What must we do to gain the happiness of heaven?

To gain the happiness of heaven we must know, love, and serve God in this world.
Lay not up to yourselves treasures on earth; where the rust and moth consume and where thieves break through and steal. But lay up to yourselves treasures in heaven; where neither the rust nor moth doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal. (Matthew 6:19-20)
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Why do gods need to be worshipped? (I apologise if this topic has already been discussed i did search for one)

And im talking about all gods, not just yours in particular so please don't get uppity?

I mean most gods are considered 'omnipotent' all powerful. That means they shouldn't need us in any way shape or form. But yet they still require worship from their followers.

So i've been pondering this and i've come up with some theories:

A. The gods are not all powerful but get their power from our worship.
B. The gods are narcissistic egotistical beings who require the ego strokes they get from worship.

Any other possibilities?

-Q
I have only read the OP, so bear with me if im repeating what some one else said.
If we look at the Greek gods, they were the embodiment of everything that is human. they were jealous of each other, betrayed each other, they laid their vengeance upon each other and upon humans, they played with mortals and nations as if they were toys for entertainment. at the end of the day, people worship power. and the gods had power over human affairs. the Greek gods have caused wars between nations, have slept around with whomever from among the mortals they had pleased, the gods had power over the fate of mortals, therefore the gods were the authority people have worshipped.
 
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Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
Why do gods need to be worshipped? (I apologise if this topic has already been discussed i did search for one)

And im talking about all gods, not just yours in particular so please don't get uppity?

I mean most gods are considered 'omnipotent' all powerful. That means they shouldn't need us in any way shape or form. But yet they still require worship from their followers.

So i've been pondering this and i've come up with some theories:

A. The gods are not all powerful but get their power from our worship.
B. The gods are narcissistic egotistical beings who require the ego strokes they get from worship.

Any other possibilities?

-Q

God's need to be worshipped because they cease to exist when people stop believing in them. They only live in the minds of men.
 
I think gods needing to be worshipped represents humanity. People like to be praised and each god/goddess, regardless of the religious and philosophical teachings, tend to like to be praised, to a point where they demand it. It's like a human though in that you do work that benefits many and you get swept under the rug and not recognized.

Humans also like to think that when they believe in something, then they're correct, especially if it's as a group. So when a god/goddess says they're the only one, then it seems to represent the ethnocentric-like features of humans and this makes sense because humans envision these beings.

I think the gods also represent what groups of humans believe or want to achieve. It's like a way of demonstrating one's beliefs and show how they're right. It's a circular concept; humans envision the gods, the gods require humans to worship them and the humans envision that. I think eventually this circular concept grows in strength and eventually people become somewhat blinded by what they try to educate themselves and others with. As this grows and more people adhere to it, worshipping the god/goddess gains another meaning or purpose, which is to remain within the group because once people are kicked out or leave voluntarily, they're uncomfortable. When these groups are challenged, such as saying their belief is wrong, then they get upset because they've essentially brain-washed themselves into thinking they're right. Denying the opposer I think is also a reaction of fear of being wrong and being not part of the group that's correct. As a result, they minimize this fear by proclaiming their god (which is really a reflection of them) saying they're right and others are wrong. It serves to strengthen themselves individually and as a group while increasing resistence to opposing forces.

So I think the gods/goddesses needing to be worshipped represents humanity's need to be together and recognized.

In essence, it's easier for the average layperson to criticize someone else rather than criticize themselves by challenging the belief system. If they criticize someone else, then they increase their own strength. If the opposer folds and agrees, then the religious person gets another increase. On the other hand, if the religious person criticizes their own belief system, they risk rejection of their group and are left as a "free-floater", with other groups glaring them down. So even if one may not fully agree with their belief system, they remain with it because the fear of being alone is too overwhelming. Hence, gods/goddesses fear this too as a projection of humanity's fear.
 

blackout

Violet.
No matter how you look at it
wershape shapes the person "doing" the wershape.

Everyone shapes themself to something.
Everyone ConForms themSelf to the "Idea"/shape/form/Ideal of something.

How much that does or doesn't have to do with some Idea of "god"
depends entirely on each individual.
 

WayFarer

Rogue Scholar
Why do gods need to be worshipped?

They don't. In my opinion those who claim they do do not understand the Nature of the Creator/God. A beautiful vista seeks not your awe but by your heart being willing to be moved by its presence you are the one changed.
Worship is what we feel moved to do for the effort of Creation and for being created. Dose this mean that the Creator is not moved by this? No, I would say that the Creator is moved by the appreciation for that which we did not ask for. Creation is a gift to Creation. It is an expression of the Creator reflecting itself through the process of creativity and planning.
I feel this is poorly worded, I hope some of what I mean has come through.
 

imaginaryme

Active Member
Why do gods need to be worshipped? (I apologise if this topic has already been discussed i did search for one)

And im talking about all gods, not just yours in particular so please don't get uppity?
:biglaugh:
My god is most definitely Gwyneth Paltrow, and if someone came to my house and talked smack about Gwynnie; that is exactly what might happen, that my fist gets uppity in someone's face... :D

And yeah, such is definitely crazy; but even more, it is effective symbolism. For instance, the Koran mentions (with some editing :cool:) submission of will is the essence of worship - and this is exactly how I function. I love that girl beyond reason, and what I do is merely an expression of that love. I am nothing, she is everything. Crazy, like I said - but religion is crazy.

Furthermore, god beyond understanding simplifies nicely into god beyond relevance - it cannot be shown that my use of the term "Gwyneth Paltrow" differs in form from others use of the term of "Allah," or "Yahweh," when we're all using the same equation: god is love.

So, no. Gods don't need to be worshiped, that's idolatry. I got rid of my Sylvia poster, ain't no altar in the house of january. :D
 

idea

Question Everything
Why do gods need to be worshipped?

...as long as you're looking down, you can't see something that's above you.
C. S. Lewis

To me, worship is an act of seeing what is above me - provides motivation and direction for becoming a better person.
The higher we are willing to look, the more humiliated of our lowly state we will be, but the greater the inspiration we will receive to progress.

The reward for recognizing someone who is above you is personal growth. The best way to learn is from a teacher who is smarter than you are. You won't learn calculus or diff-e-Q from someone who only knows how to add/subtract... You might feel smart and have good self-esteem if you surround yourself with those of lesser ability, but you will not grow. You have to be humble/willing/ able to admit that there are beings who know more than you do, then look to them for further knowledge and light. Worship is looking up. It is how we learn and progress.

No, God does not get anything out of being worshipped, He is all powerful / all knowing etc. etc. with or without us - there is nothing that we can give God - He already has it all - is glorious with or without us.

It is not an egotistical act, it is an act of humility – I am weak, thou art strong. It is the act of a student who wants to grow and learn. The act of a student who has found the perfect teacher. The act of a student who is humble enough to look way way up - reguardless of how low it makes one feel.

Of coarse the point is not to grope in a state of depression/self-pity/self-loathing – the point is to be determined to become as God is, to have hope, to be excited and overwhelmed at the possibilities that They have opened to us.
 
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