Why do homosexuals and transgenders force religious people to accept them?

[Draka]

I know you didn't mean this in an offensive way, but a friend of mine(he's straight) was raped by a woman some time ago.

One of my guy friends was raped by a woman who wanted until he was drunk to be able to "have" him.

And this is why I made the point I did. If a man says he doesn't have an issue with non-straight people unless a man forces himself on him, that would indicate that the same person should have an issue with straight people if a woman forces herself on him. It's force, non-consent, rape that is the issue, not the orientation.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

And this is why I made the point I did. If a man says he doesn't have an issue with non-straight people unless a man forces himself on him, that would indicate that the same person should have an issue with straight people if a woman forces herself on him. It's force, non-consent, rape that is the issue, not the orientation.

BOOM. Truth hits this thread.

 

[Nietzsche]

Strangely enough, Iran doesn't seem to have a problem with transsexuals because it's not forbidden in the Quran

Not just Iran. Most of Islam seems to feel that transgenderism is just something that happens. In that regard, they're better than a lot of the west regarding it. I just hope that it acts as a catalyst so that in time homosexuality will be added to it.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Do you feel that others have the freedom to denounce Islam and believe it is something evil? Are they allowed to voice that opinion? If you hear it, if the sheer amount of people saying such things becomes great enough as to limit your freedoms, discriminate against you, ridicule you, harm you, would you not speak out against such? Would you stick up for your religion and your right to believe how you want?

Now, homosexuals aren't sticking up for what they believe, it isn't a stance or a belief or a choice, they just are. They, and others whom support them, are just wanting to live alongside others and be treated equally, as the human beings they are.

No one is "forcing" you to be a homosexual. No one is "forcing" you to have a homosexual Imam or for your Mosques to perform same sex weddings. What is being required of you, and all others, is to treat people equally. Fairly, with no discrimination, hatred, or harm to others.

They have the right to believe that islam is evil.
But it will be different if they attack muslims. Then in that case Allah permitted muslims to self defence.


I think clearly we have the freedom to denounce homosexuality and not see it equal to believers. Neither do we believe that believers and unbelievers are equal.
If we believe that, we become disbelievers in our own religion.

28. Shall We treat those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, as Mufsidun (those who associate partners in worship with Allah and commit crimes) on earth? Or shall We treat the Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2), as the Fujjar (criminals, disbelievers, wicked, etc)?

They wont receive same treatment in the hereafter.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I think homosexuals are much better people than those who are full of hate, please don't come to my country of Australia with an attitude like that..

Dont worry. Australia is too hot place!

 

[Smart_Guy]

No, I'm serious. Men are raped, not just by other men either. A woman can rape a man. Forcing is forcing, no matter which gender it comes from it should be considered just as wrong.

I know you didn't mean this in an offensive way, but a friend of mine(he's straight) was raped by a woman some time ago.

One of my guy friends was raped by a woman who wanted until he was drunk to be able to "have" him.

One word:

EEEK!



Guys, sorry for getting out of the boundaries of seriousness here, but I'm doing it to mentally survive. I do that when life shocks me. I also do it sometimes to calm things down on others.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

True, the old testament condemns homosexuality, but most Christians ignore those passages they don't like, or devise elaborate rationalisations.

Now here I get the impression that you see homosexuality as some kind of choice - "between themselves and God." The point we're trying to make here is that it is a choice, but the choice was God's. God chose to create that individual as a homosexual, just as He creates some with red hair and some left handed.
An individual's sexual preference is God's will. Who are we to dispute His wisdom?

Almighty God told in the Bible and Qur'an that homosexuality/Lesbianism is sin. A true believer obeys Allah/God and stays away from the sin.

 

[Nietzsche]

One word:

EEEK!



Guys, sorry for getting out of the boundaries of seriousness here, but I'm doing it to mentally survive. I do that when life shocks me. I also do it sometimes to calm things down on others.

It's alright, I figured that much. I just wanted to clarify for those who might not know that a woman can very much rape a man.

 

[gsa]

They have the right to believe that islam is evil.
But it will be different if they attack muslims. Then in that case Allah permitted muslims to self defence.

What constitutes an "attack" on Muslims that triggers the right to self-defense? Certainly I would agree that a verbal "attack" or criticism or argument against Islam invites a verbal response. However, Muslims have no right, anywhere on Earth, to defend their religious sensibilities from being offended through the use of state sanction or violence.

I think clearly we have the freedom to denounce homosexuality and not see it equal to believers.

In the United States certainly; in other countries you will run afoul of hate speech laws if you do so publicly. If that offends your religious sensibilities, the solution is for pious Muslims to avoid those countries or peacefully advocate for a change in the law.

Neither do we believe that believers and unbelievers are equal.
If we believe that, we become disbelievers in our own religion.

No one really disagrees with your right to believe non-Muslims are headed for hell. We tend to disagree with you and most of us find the claim about as serious as similar claims made by evangelicals, Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses, but you can certainly believe as you wish, however misguided and barbaric your beliefs are.

28. Shall We treat those who believe (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, as Mufsidun (those who associate partners in worship with Allah and commit crimes) on earth? Or shall We treat the Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2), as the Fujjar (criminals, disbelievers, wicked, etc)?

They wont receive same treatment in the hereafter.

We are concerned with your treatment of non-Muslims and LGBT people in the here and now. Leave eternal consequences to your allah and there is no real problem.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

We do not look to force people to accept us. We want people to leave us alone and stop ramming their religious based view of our sexuality down our throats and keep it to themselves. To force it on us is to cause not only phyiscal but psychological harm.

I dont force you, but i tell you what you are doing is wrong. You can tell me what i believe is wrong(from your perspective). At the end of the day we shake hands and go home.

 

[Jainarayan]

Thor was a crossdresser! Loki had a strange fascination with giving birth to animals! Wouldn't be surprised if others got into it as well.

For sure. And whereas Thor worried that his manhood would be challenged being dressed as a woman, Odin had no problem with learning and practicing seidr, a decidedly womanly practice.

The Vikings; where slaves had rights, women could own property & hold office, and did not care who you slept with so long as you found time to produce an heir somewhere.

Yes, as Viking Lady points out. Homosexuality was frowned upon only in the context that a man gave up his manliness by being the passive partner. And that in turn stemmed from the belief that if he would surrender himself to another man, he would be capable of surrendering to an enemy, to the detriment of his fellow warriors, and that he would not be interested in raising a family. Barring all that, she says that the Norse really didn't care what two men did in private... it was all about courage, honor and making babies.

 

[Nietzsche]

Yes, as Viking Lady points out. Homosexuality was frowned upon only in the context that a man gave up his manliness by being the passive partner. And that in turn stemmed from the belief that if he would surrender himself to another man, he would be capable of surrendering to an enemy, to the detriment of his fellow warriors, and that he would not be interested in raising a family. Barring all that, she says that the Norse really didn't care what two men did in private... it was all about courage, honor and making babies.

I find it fascinating at how similar the Greco-Roman, Theban and Norse views on same-sex relationships turned out, despite being significantly far apart.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Sooooo...

Bisexuals. What about us?

I forget you guys. Dont take it personal ok?

 

[Jainarayan]

I find it fascinating at how similar the Greco-Roman, Theban and Norse views on same-sex relationships turned out, despite being significantly far apart.

Papua New Guinea also. An adolescent is (was?) taken under the "tutelage" of an older man, much as the Greek custom. However, in Papua New Guinea they take it a step further. As a final right of passage, the young man orally receives the older man's *ahem* "essence".

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

What constitutes an "attack" on Muslims that triggers the right to self-defense? Certainly I would agree that a verbal "attack" or criticism or argument against Islam invites a verbal response. However, Muslims have no right, anywhere on Earth, to defend their religious sensibilities from being offended through the use of state sanction or violence.




In the United States certainly; in other countries you will run afoul of hate speech laws if you do so publicly. If that offends your religious sensibilities, the solution is for pious Muslims to avoid those countries or peacefully advocate for a change in the law.



No one really disagrees with your right to believe non-Muslims are headed for hell. We tend to disagree with you and most of us find the claim about as serious as similar claims made by evangelicals, Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses, but you can certainly believe as you wish, however misguided and barbaric your beliefs are.



We are concerned with your treatment of non-Muslims and LGBT people in the here and now. Leave eternal consequences to your allah and there is no real problem.

With attack i mean what happened to the jews in world war 2. In such cases self defence is permitted. But for now we muslims are to respect the laws of the host countries because they welcome in non-christians/atheists into their countries. There is saying in hadith: He who does not thank people, does not thank Allah. Sadly some muslims dont believe that, they take matters into their hands by harrassing homosexuals and jews. Most muslims condemn that.

So anyways this thread is about the right of muslims, christians and jews to believe that homosexuality is a sin.

 

[Nietzsche]

Papua New Guinea also. An adolescent is (was?) taken under the "tutelage" of an older man, much as the Greek custom. However, in Papua New Guinea they take it a step further. As a final right of passage, the young man orally receives the older man's *ahem* "essence".

..

I think we both know exactly how and why that tradition started. I respect it simply because they managed to make blowjobs a societal ritual.

 

[Draka]

They have the right to believe that islam is evil.
But it will be different if they attack muslims. Then in that case Allah permitted muslims to self defence.

And if Muslims attack homosexuals? If homosexuals are the ones attacked by Muslims, they should also have a right of self-defense as well right?

I think clearly we have the freedom to denounce homosexuality and not see it equal to believers. Neither do we believe that believers and unbelievers are equal.
If we believe that, we become disbelievers in our own religion.

You many not internally think someone equal, but by law, you have to treat them so. The same rights, same job opportunities, same housing, same respect that you would provide to a Muslim. You may not like it, but in the US and many other countries, that simply is how it is.

28. Shall We treat those who believe

(in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism) and do righteous good deeds, as Mufsidun (those who associate partners in worship with Allah and commit crimes) on earth? Or shall We treat the Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2), as the Fujjar (criminals, disbelievers, wicked, etc)?

They wont receive same treatment in the hereafter.

That may be your belief, doesn't mean it is right, and doesn't mean you can treat others badly because of it. This is the issue in so many Islamic countries.

 

[Jainarayan]

..

I think we both know exactly how and why that tradition started. I respect it simply because they managed to make blowjobs a societal ritual.

As my college English professor said about phrases like "between you and I", it becomes correct by common usage.

 

[Jainarayan]

Dont worry. Australia is too hot place!

In more ways than one... Chris and Liam Hemsworth, Hugh Jackman, Heath Ledger, Sam Worthington. Quick, hose me down!

 

[Jainarayan]

Almighty God told in the Bible and Qur'an that homosexuality/Lesbianism is sin. A true believer obeys Allah/God and stays away from the sin.

But I don't believe in that God. Why should I be held up to that as a standard?