Why do humans allow suffering?

[nPeace]

I'm familiar with the "great issue" argument and the supporting "time for the issue to be settled" argument. Essentially it boils down to an omniscient and omnipotent God being unable to think of a better way to discipline a rebellious angel than subjecting billions of (mostly unsuspecting) humans to thousands of years of unmitigated suffering because one of them got caught off guard a very long time ago. Its silly. (And I used to believe it).

Well, I just wanted to point out that he in effect did what you suggested.

He allowed the rebels the opportunity to be gods - take his position, so to speak.... You are seeing the results.

So I think that should indicate that you are pointing your finger at the wrong person. Another god is running this world, and he has other gods with him.
So the mess is theirs - not God's.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I agree with you that humans haven't done enough to end -- or more likely, ameliorate -- suffering. But I don't think we've done virtually nothing on that heading. In fact, if you compare things today with, say, a hundred or two hundred years ago, you see a vast difference in how far we've come.

Because ending suffering doesn't make you money

 

[nPeace]

Dare I ask? English is not your native language, is it?

Why? Do I "speak" funny?

 

[Spiderman]

I think Buddhism teaches that suffering is a choice. Not 100% sure on that but think I understood it correctly.

I wonder why we feel that life should be without suffering? Is it that mindset that sets us up for failure? Hmm.

Awww....that's cute when you say hmmm? Like that!

Nah! I don't feel that life should be without suffering. I used to run for 2 hours and 40 minutes without stopping, run seven miles to a gas station and seven miles back and I ruined everything by jumping off a building and f***ing myself up for life!

I won't run again till Heaven!

My arthritis is bad that they can't do surgery cuz it will remove dwindling cartilage causing bone on bone arthritis and need for knee replacements! So, I'm f*****!

The suffering wasn't worthless though. Being unable to move, unable to urinate, pissing blood clots and blood, urinary tract infection, and all that TMI, reminded me how bad so many people had it and taught me to be humble!

It increased my compassion for others. And I was wearing depends drenched in blood and I wondered, is this what women have to go through? tmi again!

And it made me more compassionate for old people, people in wheelchairs, and people with all sorts of disabilities!

So, Nah! Suffering can be a teacher. Jesus said, unless you deny yourself daily, take up your cross, and follow me you cannot be my disciple.

But I'm ready to meet my maker! I wanna leave this broken body behind and not deal with stupid people and annoyances.

If I get cancer like my relatives, I'm not taking chemo. I welcome it. If the doctor tells me I have six months to live, that will be the best day of my life for realz!

Okay, take care Deidster!

 

[YmirGF]

Why? Do I "speak" funny?

Just some odd grammar.

 

[YmirGF]

Because ending suffering doesn't make you money

It certainly does for a lot of Americans working in the medical industry alone. It's a silly assumption, really.

 

[Spiderman]

It certainly does for a lot of Americans working in the medical industry alone. It's a silly assumption, really.

Anesthesiologists get rich relieving pain. Some get rich businessmen like Trump, rock stars, and celebrities hooked on oxycodone, diladid, fentanyl, and morphine, and make BIG HUGE bucks!

 

[YmirGF]

Anesthesiologists get rich relieving pain. Some get rich businessmen like Trump, rock stars, and celebrities hooked on oxycodone, diladid, fentanyl, and morphine, and make BIG HUGE bucks!

... and your point is?

 

[MonkeyFire]

Suffering isn't a sin but it's too dangerous to go to Heaven... so imo suffering is an illusion.

 

[Spiderman]

... and your point is?

Just that the claim that relieving pain doesn't earn a person money is false!

 

[Spiderman]

Suffering isn't a sin but it's too dangerous to go to Heaven... so imo suffering is an illusion.

It made me suffer to read that post!

 

[Sir Doom]

Suffering is in part caused by people intentionally for effect.

The worst problem with violence and the threat thereof is that it works.

As long as that remains true (forever) then there will be suffering.

 

[siti]

that should indicate that you are pointing your finger at the wrong person.

I wasn't pointing my finger at any person as far as I can recall - was I?

 

[YmirGF]

Just that the claim that relieving pain doesn't earn a person money is false!

I'm glad we have that settled.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It certainly does for a lot of Americans working in the medical industry alone. It's a silly assumption, really.

SMH can you prove me wrong I want to see this glorious response

 

[Danny1988]

I agree with you that humans haven't done enough to end -- or more likely, ameliorate -- suffering. But I don't think we've done virtually nothing on that heading. In fact, if you compare things today with, say, a hundred or two hundred years ago, you see a vast difference in how far we've come.

Yeah, we've come a long way in the last couple of hundred years. Man has invented more efficient ways to carry out evil acts like murder.
The Communists murdered 160 million people in the 20th century alone and the first and second world wars killed many more and we continue to kill to this day.
So yeah, we have come a long way in terms of carrying out acts of evil more efficiently but man is still the same wicked creature he always has been.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Just that the claim that relieving pain doesn't earn a person money is false!

Relieving pain earns people money but a cure doesn't.....

Pharmaceutical industry makes money off of biological stagnation by making medication that either mitigates suffering for a short period or temporarily stalls its advancements. I'm sure there are cures there for a plethora of things. But if every is cured and continue to be cured there would be little need for specialists in the long run.

 

[blü 2]

Many people tell me they don’t believe in God because if he existed he wouldn’t allow suffering.

That's not quite right.

The real problem is said to have been posed around 300 BCE by Epicurus, as you may know:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then [he] is not omnipotent.

Is [he] able but not willing?
Then [he] is malevolent.

Is God both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?

Is [he] neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?​

In other words, the problem starts with the claims made by believers, that God is both omnipotent and benevolent.

And plainly God, despite countless opportunities every minute to do so, allows disasters, droughts and floods to kill people, watches children raped, sits by as deserving folk are swindled out of their life savings and so on.

And the solution is easy: if you wish to believe in a god, choose one who's not supposed to be omnipotent, or not supposed to be benevolent, or not supposed to be either.

That's how to take the wind out of the critics' sails.

 

[Gallowglass]

I have known so many disabled people who people liked to point out and say how happy and upbeat and optimistic they were. I’ve even sat in hospital beds beside people like that and had others ask me why I can’t be more like so-and-so.

Then someone leaves, and there is no abler-bodied person to impress, and they just deflate. They say things like they just don’t want to ruin other people’s lives/day, that people worry too much if they know they’re hurting. I’m guilty of it too, to a degree.

You know those pain charts in hospitals? I always low ball the number by at least two. Doctors often will just go, “Uh huh, that’s a six then.”

You can’t know whether someone is suffering unless you are them. You just can’t.

 

[Danny1988]

That's not quite right.

The real problem is said to have been posed around 300 BCE by Epicurus, as you may know:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then [he] is not omnipotent.

Is [he] able but not willing?
Then [he] is malevolent.

Is God both able and willing?
Then where does evil come from?

Is [he] neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?​

In other words, the problem starts with the claims made by believers, that God is both omnipotent and benevolent.

And plainly God, despite countless opportunities every minute to do so, allows disasters, droughts and floods to kill people, watches children raped, sits by as deserving folk are swindled out of their life savings and so on.

And the solution is easy: if you wish to believe in a god, choose one who's not supposed to be omnipotent, or not supposed to be benevolent, or not supposed to be either.

That's how to take the wind out of the critics' sails.

God is in full control of everything in the universe, every atom is in His full control and nothing happens unless He allows it.

Fallen man doesn't understand god because his mind is corrupt and very limited, he's trying to understand a unlimited almighty God with a very narrow limited mind and it just doesn't work.

As a believer I love everything God does, because I know He's perfect and everything he does is perfect. He will punish every sinner with eternal torment in hell fire, so we can't say He is not just and child rapists get away with it. They will suffer for eternity so God is more than fair, the victim will enjoy eternal paradise and won't have any memory of the crime.

The most important thing is, where will we spend eternity. Most people only focus on this short time on earth, they ignore the fact that eternity is far more important than this short experience is. No matter how much we suffer in this world, it's nothing compared with eternity.

God is sovereign over the whole universe, He will reward those who believe and punish the evil doer.