Why do many Muslims believe that God wants them to injure, kill, or imprison homosexuals?

[darkendless]

Message to fallingblood: Do you live in the U.S.? If not, that explains your ignorance about conservative Christianity in the U.S., but only partly since the Internet is full of articles about how conservative Christians in the U.S. frequently try to legislate religion. There are many very politically active conservative Christian organizations in the U.S. Would you like a list of some fo them?

The court case "Lawrence versus Texas" was about homosexuality. The court case "Gonzales versus Oregon" was about physician assisted suicide. If there were not any conservative Christians in the U.S., neither case would have happened.

If there were no conservative Christians your country would have a less than pathetic education system and homosexuals would no longer live as second class citizens.

 

[Sahar]

Fallingblood,
Although I feel you want to defend Islam but I disagree with you. I read a few of your posts here. If we want to portray that Muslims' view of homosexuality is entirely cultural, I think this will be unrealistic and dishonest. Regardless of presence of punishment for them or not, homosexual sex is a major sin according to Islam. To interpret the Qur'anic verses that speak about the people of Lut as if they don't speak about sodomy is great dishonesty. I know there are some people who call themselves progressive or liberal Muslims want to twist the verses to fit the Western views, but by no means I would call them scholars. All respectable scholars agree that homosexual practices are a great sin. The lay Muslim who reads the Qur'an and the hadith can know this. The Islamic stance is clear.

 

[Agnostic75]

If there were no conservative Christians your country would have a less than pathetic education system and homosexuals would no longer live as second class citizens.

What do you mean by "homosexuals would no longer live as second class citizens"? Do you mean that they would be better off or worse off?

Regarding education, consider the following:

Is there a quality difference between private and public schools? | Kevin Schofield | Channel 10

Is there a quality difference between public and private schools?

Last month the Department of Education released a new report trying to determine if there was a substantial difference between private and public schools in terms of the quality of learning.

Here's the abstract of the report:

This study compares mean 2003 National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) reading and mathematics scores of public and private schools in 4th and 8th grades, statistically controlling for individual student characteristics (such as gender, race/ethnicity, disability status, identification as an English language learner) and school characteristics (such as school size, location, and the composition of the student body). In grades 4 and 8, using unadjusted mean scores, students in private schools scored significantly higher than students in public schools for both reading and mathematics. But when school means were adjusted in the HLM [Hierarchical Linear Modeling] analysis, the average for public schools was significantly higher than the average for private schools for grade 4 mathematics and not significantly different for reading. At grade 8, the average for private schools was significantly higher than the average for public schools in reading but not significantly different for mathematics. Comparisons were also carried out between types of sectarian schools. In grade 4, Catholic and Lutheran schools were compared separately to public schools. For both reading and mathematics, the results were similar to those based on all private schools. In grade 8, Catholic, Lutheran, and Conservative Christian schools were each compared to public schools. For Catholic and Lutheran schools for both reading and mathematics, the results were again similar to those based on all private schools. For Conservative Christian schools, the average adjusted school mean in reading was not significantly different from that of public schools. In mathematics, the average adjusted school mean for Conservative Christian schools was significantly lower than that of public schools.

This is a very interesting study. What makes it doubly interesting is that a few days later Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings was out stumping for a new voucher program to allow public school students to move to private schools and take public funds with them. USA Today reports on this, including that Secretary Spelling hadn't read the report yet and had to admit that she had only become aware of it by reading accounts in the newspaper.

Well, at least for once it's very obvious what's going on: the Bush administration is dead-set on pushing through a voucher program as part of its political agenda, regardless of whether it's in the best interest of students. It isn't even interested in the facts.

You can read more about HLM (Hierarchical Lineral Modeling) in an article at Advantages of hierarchical linear modeling. Osborne, Jason W.

Maybe private schools generally have better discipline than public schools do, but scholastically, there does not appear to be much difference between them. Even if private schools were superior to public schools in all ways, the legislation of religion would still be wrong.

At any rate, for purposes of this thread, a large percentage of Muslims approve of beating, imprisoning, or killing homosexuals, and fallingblood has not come up with any reasonable solutions for dealing with that.

 

[Autodidact]

Fallingblood,
Although I feel you want to defend Islam but I disagree with you. I read a few of your posts here. If we want to portray that Muslims' view of homosexuality is entirely cultural, I think this will be unrealistic and dishonest. Regardless of presence of punishment for them or not, homosexual sex is a major sin according to Islam. To interpret the Qur'anic verses that speak about the people of Lut as if they don't speak about sodomy is great dishonesty. I know there are some people who call themselves progressive or liberal Muslims want to twist the verses to fit the Western views, but by no means I would call them scholars. All respectable scholars agree that homosexual practices are a great sin. The lay Muslim who reads the Qur'an and the hadith can know this. The Islamic stance is clear.

And that is why all who value freedom must oppose Islam.

 

[Gharib]

And that is why all who value freedom must oppose Islam.

anything you say.

 

[Agnostic75]

Message to eselam: What evidence do you have that a God inspired the Qur'an and the Hadith?

In your opinion, what justifies what God does?

 

[Sahar]

And that is why all who value freedom must oppose Islam.

Who cares!!

 

[Autodidact]

Who cares!!

All who value freedom, that's who.

 

[Autodidact]

What we see is that again, religion robs people of morality, and replaces it with slavish obedience to ancient purity taboos. Actual people, caring, breathing people who are not harming anyone, are being murdered by so-called Islamic governments and people-who-suffer-under-the-delusion that they're Muslims, and who cares? Who cares about a few innocent murder victims? What matters is the good name of Islam, and anything can be sacrificed to that, including human life.

 

[Gharib]

Message to eselam: What evidence do you have that a God inspired the Qur'an and the Hadith?

In your opinion, what justifies what God does?

in a way are you are asking whether god exists, or you accept gods existence but are asking how i know he revealed the quran. which one?

 

[Gharib]

What we see is that again, religion robs people of morality, and replaces it with slavish obedience to ancient purity taboos. Actual people, caring, breathing people who are not harming anyone, are being murdered by so-called Islamic governments and people-who-suffer-under-the-delusion that they're Muslims, and who cares? Who cares about a few innocent murder victims? What matters is the good name of Islam, and anything can be sacrificed to that, including human life.

those breathing people just like everything else, need a leash. they need boundaries. if i suddenly say it is ok to kill my children because animals do it, there there is something wrong with me. so i need a leash. just like homosexuals do.

 

[Autodidact]

those breathing people just like everything else, need a leash. they need boundaries. if i suddenly say it is ok to kill my children because animals do it, there there is something wrong with me. so i need a leash. just like homosexuals do.

Again we see how religion retards morality. Apparently eselam cannot make a moral distinction between two people loving each other, and killing children.

 

[Gharib]

Again we see how religion retards morality. Apparently eselam cannot make a moral distinction between two people loving each other, and killing children.

where did i say that homosexuality is equal to killing children?

 

[darkendless]

Eselam, after your post yesterday i asked a question:

Why is it up to humans to punish sins that are only sins in the eyes of God/Allah?

Shouldn't he do the punishing and us leave them alone?

 

[darkendless]

What do you mean by "homosexuals would no longer live as second class citizens"? Do you mean that they would be better off or worse off?

2nd class citizens in as much as they are not treatede the same as normal people, they are treated as the minority, and recieve less rights than others (marriage) all because of what they do in their spare time. Conservative christianity plays a role in maintaining this.

Maybe private schools generally have better discipline than public schools do, but scholastically, there does not appear to be much difference between them. Even if private schools were superior to public schools in all ways, the legislation of religion would still be wrong.

Its not public vs. private but rather American vs. the world. Its a snide remark based on another thread about teachers being punished for having an opinion.

At any rate, for purposes of this thread, a large percentage of Muslims approve of beating, imprisoning, or killing homosexuals, and fallingblood has not come up with any reasonable solutions for dealing with that.

Solutions: Close our borders (the west). We should not have to blend in with the immigration of draconian type cultures.

I think its sick twisted and disgusting that a book can make people so hateful.

 

[TashaN]

Here's what I don't get about Islam, extremist Christianity, etc. O.K., your religion prohibits it. Fine. So don't do it. Your religion also prohibits eating pork. So don't eat pork. But surely it's none of your business if someone else eats it. In the same way, it's none of your business if someone else practices homosexuality.

If Islam cannot take this view, it must be eradicated.

That's what I mean by saying we cannot tolerate intolerance. If Islam cannot accept other people's right to practice homosexuality, Islam must go.

Well, it depend on the country and its laws. Normal Muslim citizens have no say on the issue at hand. It depends on what a *Muslim* court would say. When it comes to secular countries, i don't see why you think a Muslim would interfere on whether homosexuality is allowed or not.

Apparently, more Muslims believe suicide bombing is moral than homosexuality.

I think that tells you all you need to know about so-called Muslim "morality." It's not morality at all.

Anyone can play with statistics. You can pick and choose all you want and collect garbage from the internet. As not4me has said ...

Who cares!!!

Who cares!!

Indeed! It's better to let her rant!

Eselam, after your post yesterday i asked a question:

Why is it up to humans to punish sins that are only sins in the eyes of God/Allah?

Shouldn't he do the punishing and us leave them alone?

What if God himself want us to punish people who do some sins?

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, after your post yesterday i asked a question:

Why is it up to humans to punish sins that are only sins in the eyes of God/Allah?

Shouldn't he do the punishing and us leave them alone?

sorry i must have missed it, i came to the thread earlier but only looked at the lat page.

homosexuality, like adultery is a sin. in adultery the 2 people agree to have intercourse but Allah has condemned it because it is harmful to ones self as well as ones patner if married if not then lets not go into the details and say it is only harmful to ones self. considering the islamic viewpoint that Allah knows whats best for us.

after considering all that, islamically speaking a person is not allowed to harm ones self and this includes punishing ones self physically for a sin he/she has commited.
the body is given to us by Allah, if we harmed it we will be braught onto account for it.

Dr Ahmad Omar Hashim​

Under Islam good things are allowable while bad things are forbidden. Islam calls on its followers to remain strong and not to allow their strength to be weakened by smoking and other harmful habits which pose a menace to the health and the mind and induce a state of stupor and addiction.
http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/HealthEdReligion/Smoking/FT_AhmadOmarHashim.htm

now wether you are hurting yourself or someone else, it is the same, thus one must be punished. homosexuality and adultery are highly condemned and one must refrain from commiting either of them. you could say since they are punishable with death, it is like forcefully raping someone (i'm not saying homosexuality and adultery are equal to rape, nor do islamic teachings, i'm just saying that since they are punishable with death the it is like forcefully making your body, which belongs to Allah, engage in those actions.)

it is not so much as what is a sin only to Allah. for example you and i see rape as a big crime and i'm sure you agree that every rapist should be killed. but the rapist doesn't see it as a crime therefore he rapes.

that is the reason for the laws of Allah, we don't judge based on what we personally think and feel, we judge by the laws based on the one who knows what is best and the laws are the same and don't change with time as our oppinions and worldly views do. i'm sure you know about the ozzie that was hanged some 50 years ago, today the hanging law doesn't exist because people are subjet to error and with time they change their views thinking that it is a wrong law to be implemented.

if you think that we should be leaving alone people that do harm to 'somebody' (including one' self) then we shouldn't be punishing anyone at all. harming yourself is just like harming somone else (islamically speaking). certainly you don't agree that i have a right to harm my children and not get punished because they are mine but i i harm someone elses children i should be punished because they are not mine.

 

[darkendless]

What if God himself want us to punish people who do some sins?

He should do his own dirty work.

No one is free from sin and to punish the homosexual specifically for theirs is hypocritical.

 

[darkendless]

sorry i must have missed it, i came to the thread earlier but only looked at the lat page.

homosexuality, like adultery is a sin. in adultery the 2 people agree to have intercourse but Allah has condemned it because it is harmful to ones self as well as ones patner if married if not then lets not go into the details and say it is only harmful to ones self. considering the islamic viewpoint that Allah knows whats best for us.

after considering all that, islamically speaking a person is not allowed to harm ones self and this includes punishing ones self physically for a sin he/she has commited.
the body is given to us by Allah, if we harmed it we will be braught onto account for it.

Dr Ahmad Omar Hashim​

Under Islam good things are allowable while bad things are forbidden. Islam calls on its followers to remain strong and not to allow their strength to be weakened by smoking and other harmful habits which pose a menace to the health and the mind and induce a state of stupor and addiction.
http://www.emro.who.int/Publications/HealthEdReligion/Smoking/FT_AhmadOmarHashim.htm

now wether you are hurting yourself or someone else, it is the same, thus one must be punished. homosexuality and adultery are highly condemned and one must refrain from commiting either of them. you could say since they are punishable with death, it is like forcefully raping someone (i'm not saying homosexuality and adultery are equal to rape, nor do islamic teachings, i'm just saying that since they are punishable with death the it is like forcefully making your body, which belongs to Allah, engage in those actions.)

it is not so much as what is a sin only to Allah. for example you and i see rape as a big crime and i'm sure you agree that every rapist should be killed. but the rapist doesn't see it as a crime therefore he rapes.

that is the reason for the laws of Allah, we don't judge based on what we personally think and feel, we judge by the laws based on the one who knows what is best and the laws are the same and don't change with time as our oppinions and worldly views do. i'm sure you know about the ozzie that was hanged some 50 years ago, today the hanging law doesn't exist because people are subjet to error and with time they change their views thinking that it is a wrong law to be implemented.

if you think that we should be leaving alone people that do harm to 'somebody' (including one' self) then we shouldn't be punishing anyone at all. harming yourself is just like harming somone else (islamically speaking). certainly you don't agree that i have a right to harm my children and not get punished because they are mine but i i harm someone elses children i should be punished because they are not mine.

I just think it should be left to secular law, and indeed ones God to punish. If homosexuality is that bad, people would find better reasons than God to be against it.

Religion is not enough to be hateful, hate through religion is a disgrace to the religion itself.

 

[Gharib]

I just think it should be left to secular law, and indeed ones God to punish. If homosexuality is that bad, people would find better reasons than God to be against it.

Religion is not enough to be hateful, hate through religion is a disgrace to the religion itself.

no one is hating through religion it's not about that.

here is a better reason for a non-muslim like yourself who does not believe in Allah and islamic teachings:

AIDS
SEXUAL TRANSMITION:
Sexual transmission occurs with the contact between sexual secretions of one person with the rectal, genital or oral mucous membranes of another. Unprotected sexual acts are riskier for the receptive partner than for the insertive partner, and the risk for transmitting HIV through unprotected anal intercourse is greater than the risk from vaginal intercourse or oral sex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS#Sexual_transmission