fallingblood said:
You have a huge fault in your questions. You focus on Muslims too much.
On the contrary, over the past 10 years, at least 95% of the time that I have debated homosexuality, I debated conservative Christians.
Since Islam had over one billion followers, and is growing faster than Christianity is, it is appropriate that I started a thread about Muslims and homosexuality. If I had limited my discussions to conservative Christians, you would have complained about that too.
fallingblood said:
The United States is a non-Muslim country. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. all have been responsible for mistreatment of homosexuals. So you should not focus on Muslims.
Same as before.
fallingblood said:
The question should be what should anyone do about the physical mistreatment of homosexuals, or for that matter, and minority group?
Whatever the religion, fundamentalists are frequently a problem. Obviously, the best way to protect homosexuals is to oppose religious fundamentalism since religous fundamentalists are the chief opponents of homosexuality. In addition, the best way to oppose scientific creationism is to oppose religious fundamentalism since religous fundamentalists are the chief proponents of scientific creationism.
fallingblood said:
Much of what you are talking about has nothing to do with Islam, but with the culture of those particular places.
But religion is an important part of many cultures. Are you proposing that religion should be removed from cultures?
Consider the following:
LGBT topics and Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Wikipedia said:
Based on the principles of the Qur'an and the Hadith, several eminent scholars of Islam, such as
Imam Malik,
Imam Shafi, Ahmad and Ishaaq have ruled that the person guilty of homosexuality should be stoned regardless of his married or unmarried nature.
Ibn Kathir's commentary on the words of Qur'an with respect to homosexuality are,
"The words of Allah ‘And the two persons (man and woman) among you who commit illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both’ mean, those who commit immoral actions, punish them both. Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him), Sa’eed ibn Jubayr and others said: By condemning them, shaming them and hitting them with shoes. This was the ruling until Allah abrogated it and replaced it with whipping and stoning. ‘Ikrimah, ‘Ata, al-Hasan and ‘Abd-Allah ibn Katheer said: This was revealed concerning a man and woman who commit fornication. Al-Saddi said, it was revealed concerning young people before they get married. Mujaahid said: it was revealed concerning two men if they admit it bluntly; a hint is not sufficient - as if he was referring to homosexuality. And Allah knows best."
Ibn al-Qayyim is reported to have said,
"Both of them – fornication and homosexuality – involve immorality that goes against the wisdom of Allah’s creation and commandment. For homosexuality involves innumerable evil and harms, and the one to whom it is done would be better off being killed than having this done to him, because after that he will become so evil and so corrupt that there can be no hope of his being reformed, and all good is lost for him, and he will no longer feel any shame before Allah or before His creation. The semen of the one who did that to him will act as a poison on his body and soul. The scholars differed as to whether the one to whom it is done will ever enter Paradise."
A Wikipedia article at
LGBT topics and Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
shows that many predominantly Muslim countries punish homosexuals with fines, imprisonment, or the death penalty.
How do you propose to deal with "the Bible says so," and "the Qur'an and the Hadith" say so"? Stanton Jones, Ph.D., psychology, and Paul Yarhouse, Ph.D., psychology, are conservative Christians. They said in a book that they wrote that even if science proved that homosexuality is a healthy lifestyle, Christians should still oppose it. Dr. Jones is the provost at Wheaton College, which is a Christian college. Why don't you contact him and tell him that he should not trust what the Bible says? While you are at it, please contact the ICR (Institute for Creation Research), and AIG (Answers in Genesis) and tell them that they should not trust what the Bible says.
fallingblood said:
Maybe addressing the subject of homosexuality would lead this somewhere. The persecution of homosexuality is not a religious thing. Take religion out of the equation, and they would still hate homosexuality. The reason is simple, they are different, they are a minority.
If your argument was valid, Christian inerrantists would still believe that a global flood occured even if they were not inerrantists, but that is obviously false since very few Christians who believe that a global flood are not inerrantists. Most inerrantists know very little about geology, but they still believe that a global flood occured because they are inerrantists, and they rubber stamp everything that the Bible says whether or not they know much about an issue. Christian inerrantists sometimes use secular arguments against homosexuality, but they oppose some other things that are not supported by secular evidence. An example is divorce. Jesus said that divorce is only acceptable in cases of adultery. Many conservative Christians follow that teaching even though there is not any secular evidence that married couples are always better off staying married to each other.
Many people who oppose homosexuality are not religious, but they are not nearly as numerous as people who are religious. That is common knowledge. Even someone as misinformed as you are must know that. Many polls show that religious people are far more likely to oppose homosexuality, same-sex marriage, physician assisted suicide, and abortion than skeptics and very liberal Christians are.
Scientific creationists would not be spending lots of time and money promoting scientific creationism if they did not believe that they were influencing lots of people, and skeptics and very liberal Christians would not be spending lots of time and money opposing them if they did not believe that they were influencing lots of people.
You are a joke. You have not provided any credible ways of dealing with conservative Christians, or with conservative Muslims for that matter.