Why do muslims hate democracy

[sojourner]

Response: The use of military force does not change the fact that his followers were Muslims due to being inspired by the Qur'an. So your weak rebuttal fails to invalidate the challenge, while your ducking and dodging to answer it confirms your denial to the fact that the challenge proves the Qur'an is true.

As for the rest, not only does no source on the planet say that any individual you just named conquered and ruled a nation by inspiring followers with human-made speech that goes against their liking, nor can you quote and prove otherwise, but if asked of what proof you have that they did do it, your answer is "because a book says so". Such evidence is hearsay, while the Qur'an challenge is firsthand. Hearsay is not more credible than firsthand evidence. Thus you've failed three times in just one post, debunking yourself as usual and supporting the fact that the challenge proves the Qur'an is true. Thanks for the assistance.

Neither did Muhammed conquer and rule a nation by inspiring followers with human-made speech that went against their liking. He conquered and ruled a nation by military force.

My point was that there were others (and not only those known only by a book -- to wit: MLK and Ghandi -- they're both well-documented outside of history books) who did influence large numbers of people and who did begin change in nations with their words, as you "claim" Muhammed did (although that "fact" can only be ascertained through historic writings). I watched MLK make speeches. I can see the fallout from his words. Did you witness Muhammed first-hand, or is only through "heresy," as you put it? Jesus started a religion with his words and example -- just as you say Muhammed did.

The "challenge" is bogus, because Muhammed patently did not do what the "challenge" claims he did.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Neither did Muhammed conquer and rule a nation by inspiring followers with human-made speech that went against their liking. He conquered and ruled a nation by military force.

My point was that there were others (and not only those known only by a book -- to wit: MLK and Ghandi -- they're both well-documented outside of history books) who did influence large numbers of people and who did begin change in nations with their words, as you "claim" Muhammed did (although that "fact" can only be ascertained through historic writings). I watched MLK make speeches. I can see the fallout from his words. Did you witness Muhammed first-hand, or is only through "heresy," as you put it? Jesus started a religion with his words and example -- just as you say Muhammed did.

The "challenge" is bogus, because Muhammed patently did not do what the "challenge" claims he did.

Response: And the followers of Muhammad who aided him in military force became his followers after being inspired by the Qur'an, so the Qur'an was still used as stated in the challenge. Debunked as usual. And since you continue to fail in answering the challenge, then as usual, your utter failure continues to support the fact that the Qur'an challenge proves the Qur'an is true. Thanks.

Then to hide your repeated failure, you dodge the challenge and say others have answered the challenge. Yet if asked of what proof you have that any individual answered the challenge and proved that the act is humanly possible, your answer is “because a book says so”, which is faulty logic. For saying so is not proof that it is so. Furthermore, such proof is hearsay, while the Qur’an challenge is firsthand. Hearsay is not more credible than firsthand evidence. So your logic fails again, which only supports the fact that the Qur’an challenge is valid in proving that the Qur’an is the true word of Allah.

 

[sojourner]

Response: And the followers of Muhammad who aided him in military force became his followers after being inspired by the Qur'an, so the Qur'an was still used as stated in the challenge. Debunked as usual. And since you continue to fail in answering the challenge, then as usual, your utter failure continues to support the fact that the Qur'an challenge proves the Qur'an is true. Thanks.

Then to hide your repeated failure, you dodge the challenge and say others have answered the challenge, yet if asked of what proof you have that any individual answered the challenge and proved that the act is humanly possible, your answer is “because a book says so”, which is faulty logic. For saying so is not proof that it is so. Furthermore, such proof is hearsay, while the Qur’an challenge is firsthand. Hearsay is not more credible than firsthand evidence. So your logic fails again, which only supports the fact that the Qur’an challenge is valid in proving that the Qur’an is the true word of Allah.

No, my answer was that I have seen someone do that.

Have you? You have not. All you have is heresay.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

No, my answer was that I have seen someone do that.

Have you? You have not. All you have is heresay.

Response: Exactly. Your proof that you have seen it is simply saying "I've seen it". Saying you've seen something is not proof that something actually occured. If that was the case then according to your logic, you have not seen anything because "I have seen" you do nothing. Again, you refute yourself as usual.

 

[Shad]

Response: And the sources provided by others refuted you, as they clearly state that the two waters mix and create a barrier that separates the two waters from overtaking each other. Debunked as usual.

Nope these sources do not say that. It just the water mixes, it says nothing about a barrier between two "waters". The issue is you are treating a body of water as homogenous when it is not. So there is no two "waters" and never has been. There is nothing to refute as the premise behind the water claim is flawed and in error. No need to refute that which is in error to begin with.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Nope these sources do not say that. It just the water mixes, it says nothing about a barrier between two "waters". The issue is you are treating a body of water as homogenous when it is not. So there is no two "waters" and never has been. There is nothing to refute as the premise behind the water claim is flawed and in error. No need to refute that which is in error to begin with.

Response: Nope, It says that the cline region has a much lesser degree in properties than both waters. It is an area where properties become LESS, not more. Therefore, it is a barrier that prevents the waters to overtake the other as the Qur'an says. Your logic fails. Show from your own source where the cline is said to receive greater quantities in properties rather than less. You have none. Debunked as usual.

 

[Shad]

A "cline" is not always present in every body of water. It does not exists in polar regions. If it does not exist in polar regions then the Quran has it wrong as the verse should apply to all bodies of water. "Clines" also break down due to season. Again shows the Quran is factually wrong.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

A "cline" is not always present in every body of water. It does not exists in polar regions. If it does not exist in polar regions then the Quran has it wrong as the verse should apply to all bodies of water. "Clines" also break down due to season. Again shows the Quran is factually wrong.

Response: Nor does the Qur'an say it does exist in polar regions. Debunked again.

 

[Shad]

The polar region is a body of water so it should apply. Also the "cline" you use a defense of the verse breakdown. You dodged this point completely. Also the verse says water shall not transgress. However gravity, wind and tidal forces create mixing even in a thermocline. Thus it is not a barrier but a lay like a cake.

 

[Al-Fatihah]

The polar region is a body of water so it should apply. Also the "cline" you use a defense of the verse breakdown. You dodged this point completely.

Response: Yet the Qur'an does not say that it should apply because it is a body of water. Another failed strawman attempt that only highlights the truth of the Qur'an. Thanks.

 

[Shad]

Nope it says two bodies of water. Any body of water should and can be applicable to the verse. If the Quran failed to clarify it is the authors fault. You are cherry picking what is considered a body of water and what is not. Stratification is a product of mixing of the two water layers. It's not a foreign body or a discontinuous interface (forbidden partition)! A forbidden partition separates two water bodies and doesn't allow mixing. But a cline is produced BY THE MIXING of the two water layers.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/media/supp_est05c_stratified.html
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/media/supp_est05d_mixed.html

 

[Al-Fatihah]

Nope it says two bodies of water. Any body of water should and can be applicable to the verse. If the Quran failed to clarify it is the authors fault. You are cherry picking what is considered a body of water and what is not. Stratification is a product of mixing of the two water layers. It's not a foreign body or a discontinuous interface (forbidden partition)! A forbidden partition separates two water bodies and doesn't allow mixing. But a cline is produced BY THE MIXING of the two water layers

Response: The verse clearly says fresh and salt water (25:53). Not any body of water can be applicable. Debunked again.

 

[sojourner]

Response: Exactly. Your proof that you have seen it is simply saying "I've seen it". Saying you've seen something is not proof that something actually occured. If that was the case then according to your logic, you have not seen anything because "I have seen" you do nothing. Again, you refute yourself as usual.

<sigh> I'm not the only one who's seen it. There is a lot of 3rd party observation -- including news footage and history writings. MLK did do that -- and what he started continues.

 

[Shad]

Response: The verse clearly says fresh and salt water (23:53). Not any body of water can be applicable. Debunked again.

This is factual wrong and grade school chemistry. Fresh and salt water mix. Refer to the link about estuaries. One can simple prove this wrong by taking a glass of salt water and a glass of fresh water. Add the fresh water to the salt and let gravity take effect. The salt will diffuse into the fresh waters as salt is soluble. One can mix it to simulate ocean or wind forces to increase the rate of mixing. Mixing starts as long as gravity exists which will function as a property of tidal forces.

Solubility
http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=183

 

[Al-Fatihah]

<sigh> I'm not the only one who's seen it. There is a lot of 3rd party observation -- including news footage and history writings. MLK did do that -- and what he started continues.

Response: No written or video source on the planet shows MLK ruling a nation, after his followers conquered it for him once they were inspired by words that went against their liking. So your erroneous claim fails, and the Qur'an challenge still stands.

 

[Parsimony]

The Qu'ran challenge seems like an attempt to shift the burden of proof to me: "I don't have to prove the Qu'ran is from God, you have to prove that it isn't!"

 

[Al-Fatihah]

This is factual wrong and grade school chemistry. Fresh and salt water mix. Refer to the link about estuaries. One can simple prove this wrong by taking a glass of salt water and a glass of fresh water. Add the fresh water to the salt and let gravity take effect. The salt will diffuse into the fresh waters as salt is soluble. One can mix it to simulate ocean or wind forces to increase the rate of mixing. Mixing starts as long as gravity exists which will function as a property of tidal forces.

Solubility
UCSB Science Line sqtest

Response: And when they mix, their properties become less, not more, as your own source says. Thus confirming the Qur'an as true when it says it acts as a barrier so that one does not over take the other. Debunked as usual.

 

[Sleeppy]

We should just leave some people alone, to worship their books.. Fatihah isn't capable of learning, if it doesn't come out of the Quran.

 

[Shad]

A barrier is a discontinuity thus it would be impossible for water to mix. However since there is no barrier but stratification this is a continuity. A barrier which can not be transgressed makes mixing impossible. Your interpretation is a contradiction. Water properties again are not homogenous. Water even within a cline varies as it does in other clines. If water from body flows into another it mixes thus is over taken by the body it flows into. Also in estuaries salt water due to current and tidal forces can move up a river to a limited range. Thus this body is overtaking the other. Mixing itself is water overtaking another.

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp...No=53&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Even Islamic schools thought there was no mixing...

 

[Shad]

The Qu'ran challenge seems like an attempt to shift the burden of proof to me: "I don't have to prove the Qu'ran is from God, you have to prove that it isn't!"

It is an argument from incredibility and shift the burden. People think the Quran is the best example of Arabic, although I know a number of scholars which point out it's errors. Those people demand their fallacy to be proven wrong without realizing the argument itself is fallacious.

It is like claiming one's spouse is the best pie maker in the world. Rather than prove to the world the pies are the best the person makes the claim that other must prove the pies are not.