Why do people believe what they believe?

[an anarchist]

In my own experience God doesn't leave any room for doubts on this matter.

Indeed, I have no place for doubt in my heart either! An interesting revelation I had these past couple weeks. My doubt is being replaced with serenity and bliss. With boundless bliss in my heart, how could any doubt fit in?

 

[Kathryn]

I suppose you are right. I’m thinking about it right now, and I guess I just do what “feels” right experientially. It is grounded in personal experience, but I suppose the key difference I have in my perspective is that personal experience is a fallible method of acquiring knowledge.

True but it happens to all of us. We may not be able to prove it to other people but honestly, so what? Usually, no one is listening to us anyway. Meanwhile, I do believe that God is often trying to reach us.

 

[an anarchist]

so what

This song is so your vibe

 

[Kathryn]

This song is so your vibe

I'm serious though. So what? Most people are not listening to our stories or experiences. Meanwhile, I believe that God is often trying to reach us through our experiences.

 

[an anarchist]

I'm serious though. So what? Most people are not listening to our stories or experiences. Meanwhile, I believe that God is often trying to reach us through our experiences.

And what of those who don’t listen? Heck, I don’t live through my experiences for the sake of others. Perhaps God has reached me through my experiences, and perhaps there are those who will believe me when I relay my experiences to them. I don’t need everyone to believe me. I don’t need anyone to believe me. I don’t even have to believe me.

So you are right, “so what?”. The issue I raised was when people use their experiences as “proof” that their religion is “correct”.

 

[Kathryn]

And what of those who don’t listen? Heck, I don’t live through my experiences for the sake of others. Perhaps God has reached me through my experiences, and perhaps there are those who will believe me when I relay my experiences to them. I don’t need everyone to believe me. I don’t need anyone to believe me. I don’t even have to believe me.

So you are right, “so what?”. The issue I raised was when people use their experiences as “proof” that their religion is “correct”.

Oh I didn't realize people did that very often.

 

[ppp]

I am way out of my league here. Philosophy is just not something I have studied except in passing. But it is my understanding that Nihilism says the universe has no meaning, that our lives have no meaning. I realize that google and AI are only going to give superficial responses, but they do seem to confirm this. ChatGPT in particular states that existentialism is not a form of Nihilism because an existentialist will create meaning.

I do appreciate your use of the word "nacient." I believe you are saying that nihilism is the precursor to existentialism the way a fetus becomes a baby.

It's quite possible that you know way more than me about this, and you could very well be right. Like I said, way above my pay grade.

What you are saying is entirely fair, and I am certainly no philosopher either.

I just asked chatgpt "Didn't Nietzsche generate meaning via Übermensch and Eternal Recurrence ". Yes, I slanted it.
The direct response...

Yes, Nietzsche indeed proposed concepts like the Übermensch and Eternal Recurrence, which can be interpreted as ways to create or affirm meaning in a world that lacks inherent value, but his philosophy remains distinct from existentialism in key ways

It then did a breakdown, then provided a summary.

In summary, Nietzsche did propose ways of generating meaning through concepts like the Übermensch and Eternal Recurrence, but his focus was more on overcoming nihilism and revaluing life itself rather than constructing meaning in the existentialist sense. His ideas thus provided a response to nihilism but in a way that remains distinct from existentialism.

I think that my assessment of there being overlap stands, but it generally affirms your position on the matter that they are separe philosophical positions with diagnostic criteria.

 

[an anarchist]

Oh I didn't realize people did that very often.

On this very thread I think… that’s what prompted my response on the matter. Perhaps I read into it wrong though, and I don’t feel like backtracking through the thread to see.

 

[Kathryn]

On this very thread I think… that’s what prompted my response on the matter. Perhaps I read into it wrong though, and I don’t feel like backtracking through the thread.

I know what you mean.

 

[ppp]

Reading Nietzsche is like reading the Bible, everybody can find a different interpretation. I see Nietzsche in the tradition of the Enlightenment. He emphasizes the importance to think for ourselves, to not accept traditional values without scrutiny. He doesn't even explicitly say that there is no meaning, just that we have to find it for ourselves. In that way, he is the father of existentialism.

I agree. I think if he had been born 25 years later, he would have had the cultural and mental tools to make a more successful transition

 

[firedragon]

Everything is not subjective. Some things are objective.

Right. That's why all theologies cannot be right. Your whole OP fails on that hill.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m talking about the spiritual hidden mysteries of life obviously.

If they are hidden and mysterious, then they are neither known nor obvious. Leaving nothing to talk about.

 

[Jimmy]

If they are hidden and mysterious, then they are neither known nor obvious. Leaving nothing to talk about.

They can be found with a little digging.

 

[ppp]

How much digging? As much digging as it take to unearth tubers? Copper? Iron? Aluminum? Earthworms?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

They can be found with a little digging.

Then definitely not obvious.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

They can be found with a little digging.

The thing about truth is that we may have it and never really know.

Science and philosophy are the tools we use to seek it, but we are left with the realization that we cannot know if we find it.

I can't speak for philosophy, but the strength of science is in knowing that what we find can only be tentative and the best answers we can come up with from what we have learned.

Philosophy uses logic and reasoning to come ever closer to what might be the truth.

Perhaps oversimplified for both, but the best you will get out of me right now.

But people will reject what is known in favor what they want to believe or desire all the time. They may be rejecting the truth, the most logical position or the best answers we can come up with, bur reject it they do. By now, most are aware that some substances can be addictive, but that doesn't stop people from believing addiction will never happen to them. It doesn't take much digging to find that not so mysterious fact.

 

[Jimmy]

Then definitely not obvious.

When I used the word obviously it was in regards to the thread title because the post that you responded initially to where I said the truth can’t be ignored and you said “sure it can, it is all the time, which referenced every day truths that can easily be ignored not hidden spiritual truths.

 

[Jimmy]

The thing about truth is that we may have it and never really know.

Science and philosophy are the tools we use to seek it, but we are left with the realization that we cannot know if we find it.

I can't speak for philosophy, but the strength of science is in knowing that what we find can only be tentative and the best answers we can come up with from what we have learned.

Philosophy uses logic and reasoning to come ever closer to what might be the truth.

Perhaps oversimplified for both, but the best you will get out of me right now.

But people will reject what is known in favor what they want to believe or desire all the time. They may be rejecting the truth, the most logical position or the best answers we can come up with, bur reject it they do. By now, most are aware that some substances can be addictive, but that doesn't stop people from believing addiction will never happen to them. It doesn't take much digging to find that not so mysterious fact.

Yeah, often the youth engage in less than desirable actions.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think the initial basis for religion has to do with exposure in the early years of our lives when we are very vulnerable to new ideas and don't really have a lot of experience of our own. Hardly any children question their parents, so if one is told that God exist and it is this particular one, you have no reason to assume that your parents are lying or most likely wrong about it. And when that is the case, all their ideas and views are imprinted on the child as they grow up.

I guess I am a notable exception since I was not brought up in any religion or with a belief in God. I discovered the Baha'i Faith during my first years of college I was like a blank slate since I had never been religious. Moreover, I was not ever that interested in religion or curious about it like many young people since I was very busy with academia. I recall taking a world religions class in my first year of college and it was not of much interest to me.

If I had not stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith I may have never joined a religion. That was 54 years ago, but as I recall, I was not interested in God then but rather in the principles and teachings of the Faith and in things like the soul and the afterlife. I assumed that God existed since that is a Baha'i teaching, but I never really believed that God existed until much later in my life. As I recall, that interest was instigated when I read the book called Gleanings about 10 years ago and came to realize who God is and who Messengers of God are.

Since that time I have read and studied many more of the Baha'i Writings and I have read many parts of the Bible and I think I now know what I need to know. The Faith was a passion for me for many years but now I am looking to have more in my life, and that process was accelerated about 2 1/2 rears ago when my husband passed on. Unlike some Baha'is, I think there is more to life than religion and I want to find out what that is, especially since I am no longer a spring chicken. I am also trying to focus more on improving my character than on increasing my knowledge of religion, trying to live according to the Baha'i teachings in my everyday life, especially with regard to how I treat other people..

 

[Trailblazer]

As an atheist, we obviously would like to know why we are here, but have no issues not knowing, because we have already been through the whole process of accepting that this is probably not something we will ever know. And therefore it is more important to spend time helping each other and get the best out of things as we can. This is also why a majority of atheists identify themselves as humanists and value science because it is what we consider the most valuable tool to achieve a better world and therefore better conditions for humans and animals etc.

I very much admire that attitude and way of life of humanists, which is why I greatly respect humanists like @It Aint Necessarily So and @Evangelicalhumanist.

Unlike most religious people, I do not think it is necessary to believe in God in order to do good works and contribute to society, and if fact being a member of a religion requires study and worship and meetings, which takes one's time away from being out in the world helping others.