Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Everything is not subjective. Some things are objective.
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Why do people believe what they believe?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Tony B
Member
Never start with a lie, I never said any such thing, I said Christianity is the only true religion....because.... etc. I also clearly said it's not 'my religion', which implies I'm responsible for it, I'm obviously not, it is the faith I follow, lets be clear about what is said please.
You can but you haven't, oki doki....
I see, why didn't you just say 'I can't' and save yourself some typing?
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
I’m talkin bout spiritual hidden mysteries of life obviously.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
I’m talking about the spiritual hidden mysteries of life obviously.
Tony B
Member
People rarely find joy in being challenged these days, I can't help that I'm afraid.
I never even mentioned Hindu prophets so I have no idea where you're coming from on this one. I don't study Hinduism, except to say that I know Yoga is used as a recruiting tool and isn't what most gullible people think it is.
That's great, it's like a burger bun with no meat in it, so not very filling, just a random unsubstantiated opinion.
Obviously not, and I never claimed otherwise, in the interests of honesty can you point out where I did?
More randomness, thanks.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It's at this stage I realise I am dealing with someone who is totally irrational, and there is literally no point beating my head against this particular door.
I must refer to scripture, as one has to do in these situations;
“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!”
“Say: So great is the glory of the Cause of God that even the blind can perceive it, how much more they whose sight is sharp, whose vision is pure. The blind, though unable to perceive the light of the sun, are, nevertheless, capable of experiencing its continual heat. The blind in heart, however, among the people of the Bayán—and to this God is My witness—are impotent, no matter how long the Sun may shine upon them, either to perceive the radiance of its glory, or to appreciate the warmth of its rays.”
P.S. If Christians can quote the Bible left and right, the same right should be afforded the Baha'is.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Oh yes I have been accused of such. You just haven't been around long enough to see it.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
Wait but you said -
So you are full of it then! Your above statement is -
Tony B
Member
I don't study it, that doesn't stop me reading about it, they are not the same thing. I study the Bible, not Hinduism.
Not really, the error in comprehension is yours.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
So you are not in a position to “rule out” Hinduism I’d say if your knowledge of it is lacking.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I think the initial basis for religion has to do with exposure in the early years of our lives when we are very vulnerable to new ideas and don't really have a lot of experience of our own. Hardly any children question their parents, so if one is told that God exist and it is this particular one, you have no reason to assume that your parents are lying or most likely wrong about it. And when that is the case, all their ideas and views are imprinted on the child as they grow up.
But this only goes so far I think, because at some point everyone will start asking questions as they get experiences of their own and other external influences and views and therefore they start becoming more independent. The parents are no longer these beacons of knowledge that can't be wrong.
At this point, things start to become a lot more complicated and it seems to now depend on several things. But first and foremost the individuals themselves. How do you deal with new knowledge and contradictory views to your own?
Some will investigate trying to figure out whether these contradictory views make sense or not? While others will simply dismiss them as being wrong. Which I think is closely related to humans in general not liking to be wrong and also this is closely related to comfort I think. We grew up in a world where things work in a certain way, God is there and he is watching, taking care of us etc. Now someone comes and says that he doesn't exist!! that pretty much shatters the comfort we are used to if you were to believe that. All of a sudden, the world you know is not the same then, not only for yourself but also it could potentially expose those you love and trust as being wrong. And also it could make you feel like you are outside the group, if everyone else around you believes in God and you suddenly don't, what about all the traditions etc.? How will they react to it etc? These for most people are extremely uncomfortable to deal with, especially also because in many religions you are not looked well upon for denying God and might even risk getting excluded or even punished severely for it.
In this case, you can either pretend and live a lie or you might lose your whole foundation. Again this depends on the religion you follow and the country you live in obviously. That is more of the personal side of the issue.
The second issue is how you as an individual approach these things and to me this is probably the most interesting part because this is about honesty and figuring out how you as a person want to deal with things that contradict your beliefs, not only religious but in general.
And I think this is where the biggest difference is between people, at least in my opinion I think atheists in general are more open to new ideas than a majority of religious people are, due to us not having to maintain or defend a religious view. Even within religion, not only do you have to "defend" against the atheist view you also have to defend against other religious views.
Whereas as an atheist, you question all the religious views doesn't matter which they are and you are not as such "fighting" against religion as I think a lot of religious people might think. Rather I would say that we are defending the idea of critical thinking and scepticism against wishful thinking, and religion just happens to be a huge player in this field, based on a lot of unverifiable ideas and people claiming to know things for which they have no basis.
And finally, to follow up with the personal side, I think a lot of people feel uneasy with the thought that we/they just exist basically without any reason or higher purpose. They want an answer to this, why am I/we here? and atheism doesn't offer this answer. But a God if you accept it, does offer an explanation as long as you don't question its validity. If you ignore this question, then you can jump ahead and start asking questions that you as an individual might find more interesting, which is, why does God do what he does? Do I live up to God's expectations etc.? What is God trying to tell us? and I should treat others according to what God tells me.
As an atheist, we obviously would like to know why we are here, but have no issues not knowing, because we have already been through the whole process of accepting that this is probably not something we will ever know. And therefore it is more important to spend time helping each other and get the best out of things as we can. This is also why a majority of atheists identify themselves as humanists and value science because it is what we consider the most valuable tool to achieve a better world and therefore better conditions for humans and animals etc.
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Tony B
Member
That doesn't imply I speak for everyone at all, I have no idea why you think it would, it's just my opinion on specific situations I have experienced more than once. I was quite clear I did not mean everyone, but you conveniently left that context out, be honest not dishonest.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
It actually does
Tony B
Member
I can absolutely rule it out, as I have said several times, logically there can only be one true faith based on the vast differences between most faiths. I found the one true faith and experienced the holy spirit, do you seriously expect me to ignore that and keep looking? I noticed you didn't deny what I said about Yoga either.
Tony B
Member
2+2=5, we can all play that game, it's just not very convincing is it.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
Well when you have something that has a modicum of convincing power, I and I’m sure everyone else will happily be all ears!
Many from all faiths have experience religious ecstasy and experiences. I myself have talked to God face to face. So I can say what you say and that I know for certain my faith is real because I have experience my God.
I do not call you a liar when you say you have “experienced” the Holy Spirit. Will you call me a liar for telling you I have walked with God and He has instructed me with knowledge?
an anarchist
Your local loco.
Kills the time though. Probably why one of us are here at least.
an anarchist
Your local loco.
Cuz that was a lame criticism that I am not going to give any mental energy to dismantling.
Tony B
Member
I'm not here to convince anyone, you can either believe me or not, it doesn't change anything.
Why do we put cheese in a mousetrap?
Why are you keen for me to call you a liar? I have significant doubts of your claim but you will believe what you want to believe. By the way, which Hindu deity was that?