Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

[Sonofason]

I shouldn't need to back that one up at all. It's basic primary school science education. You could google it yourself in ten seconds, or go to Wikipedia and look up the respective ages of the sun, earth and moon. It's a fact, and common knowledge as well. You might as well ask me to prove that the sky is blue.

I think you're trying to waste my time. I don't think you are open to admitting the bible got the order wrong regardless of the evidence I give you, so why bother? You found a way to convince yourself plants can exist without sunlight. You'd surely find a way to convince yourself planets can form without the gravitational influence of a star. God's gravity, perhaps. Don't know or care.

If it's so easy to find evidence that the sun predates the earth, then find it and submit it. If it is as you say, "basic primary school science" you should be able to find the evidence in no time.

 

[Sonofason]

The article explains how they determine the age of the Sun. If you have a problem with middle school level science, I really can't help you.

Please direct me to the actual evidence, as I don't see any evidence revealed in the article.

 

[Sonofason]

If a credible article by an actual solar physicist who literally studies these kinds of things for a living does not count as evidence to you, then what actually does? Would you like him to write it down on 2,000 year old papyrus, bury it somewhere in the deserts of Israel, dig it back up, and say it came from God? Would that make it a bit more credible for your taste?

The article includes no evidence. It contains claims, but no evidence. Show the evidence please.

 

[LuisDantas]

Sigh. Is being a Christian supposed to enable one to run away from basic knowledge?

 

[Viker]

Sigh. Is being a Christian supposed to enable one to run away from basic knowledge?

No. Christianity is no excuse to run and hide.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Sigh. Is being a Christian supposed to enable one to run away from basic knowledge?

I'd say the fact that the Galileo trial actually happened provides the answer to that question.

 

[Viker]

I'd say the fact that the Galileo trial actually happened provides the answer to that question.

That business about a big bang came from a Christian. And evolution. Probably other sciency stuff.

 

[Sapiens]

Peace be on everyone.

Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

Edit / add: and what is the source of morality in life, of above mentioned people?

I have no need to deny what is not there nor do I harbor any doubt beyond the minimum that a good scientist reserves for any unprovable and indemonstrable phenomena. There is not a single shred of evidence that there is, or ever was, any god(s).

Moral behavior has also been shown to be selected for naturally ... no god(s) needed there either.

 

[icehorse]

I am simply pointing out that many things which you think you know as a matter of fact are not indeed matters of fact, but pure unsubstantiated conjecture.

Let's try it from this angle...

"Science" is an entire discipline. It is not a single scientist. Every new theory is subjected to harsh peer review. Every scientific theory that's seen as valid, has gone through a gauntlet of attacks, revisions, more attacks, more revisions, and so on. Everyone using this forum is relying on the discipline of science. We don't have to - individually - know how every aspect of the technology associated with constructing and maintaining the internet works. We trust science and the scientific community.

So this is not just one solar scientist talking. This is a scientist who exists within a discipline. He would not be accredited if he was just makin' stuff up.

So when a scientist makes a claim, he either calls it an "as yet substantiated theory", or else it's got the whole weight of science behind it. Or else that scientist would soon be drummed out of the community.

So your claim that it's "pure unsubstantiated conjecture" doesn't hold much water. I think you probably ought to stop using the products of science altogether - no telling when a bit of scientific magic will end up being the work of the devil.

 

[Shad]

If it's so easy to find evidence that the sun predates the earth, then find it and submit it. If it is as you say, "basic primary school science" you should be able to find the evidence in no time.

We have examples of early star formation and plantary systems. https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/yss/display.cfm?ThemeID=2&Tab=Educational Resources That really took no time at all.

 

[Alceste]

Um. I'm not aware of any scientific 'reason' why the sun should predate the earth, those dates may be slightly arbitrary, or just fit into parameters for convenience sake of what can be 'assumed', not sure. I wouldn't present those as facts however.

Gravity. That is the scientific reason the sun predates the earth, and the earth predates the moon.

 

[LuisDantas]

Gravity. That is the scientific reason the sun predates the earth, and the earth predates the moon.

Which does bring interesting, or perhaps boring, religions consequences.

Maybe God wants believers to be at odds with science and therefore made the Universe in an incoherent way just because.

Or maybe God does value reason and knowledge, although his believers do not always.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Which does bring interesting, or perhaps boring, religions consequences.

Maybe God wants believers to be at odds with science and therefore made the Universe in an incoherent way just because.

Or maybe God does value reason and knowledge, although his believers do not always.

No, people need to realize the proper place of myth and stop taking it literally. They do it to themselves.

 

[Alceste]

Which does bring interesting, or perhaps boring, religions consequences.

Maybe God wants believers to be at odds with science and therefore made the Universe in an incoherent way just because.

Or maybe God does value reason and knowledge, although his believers do not always.

The Occam's-Razor-iest explanation by a long mile is that all of our holy books were written by ordinary men who knew literally nothing about the world, the solar system, life on earth, the universe or how any of it came to be.

Religious minds tend to be very uncomfortable with the unknown, according to our current research on the subject, and they are more likely accept any story that plugs the void of chaos and uncertainty. I see no reason to assume that was ever different.

I agree that "if God" made plants before the sun, he's a lunatic or a moron. But I'm a long way past questioning why the god of the bible did this or that, or what kind of person he would be if the bible were true. God to me is little more than a confusing character in a badly written book.

 

[Sonofason]

Sigh. Is being a Christian supposed to enable one to run away from basic knowledge?

Does not being a Christian enable one to frivolously accept anything as knowledge and truth?

 

[Desert Snake]

Gravity. That is the scientific reason the sun predates the earth, and the earth predates the moon.

Eh? You'll have to explain further. And more than just quips one liners, that isn't a debate.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Occam's-Razor-iest explanation by a long mile is that all of our holy books were written by ordinary men who knew literally nothing about the world, the solar system, life on earth, the universe or how any of it came to be.

Religious minds tend to be very uncomfortable with the unknown, according to our current research on the subject, and they are more likely accept any story that plugs the void of chaos and uncertainty. I see no reason to assume that was ever different.

I agree that "if God" made plants before the sun, he's a lunatic or a moron. But I'm a long way past questioning why the god of the bible did this or that, or what kind of person he would be if the bible were true. God to me is little more than a confusing character in a badly written book.

Mythology isn't supposed to be taken literally. They're stories that speak on a deeper level.

 

[Sonofason]

Let's try it from this angle...

"Science" is an entire discipline. It is not a single scientist. Every new theory is subjected to harsh peer review. Every scientific theory that's seen as valid, has gone through a gauntlet of attacks, revisions, more attacks, more revisions, and so on. Everyone using this forum is relying on the discipline of science. We don't have to - individually - know how every aspect of the technology associated with constructing and maintaining the internet works. We trust science and the scientific community.

So this is not just one solar scientist talking. This is a scientist who exists within a discipline. He would not be accredited if he was just makin' stuff up.

So when a scientist makes a claim, he either calls it an "as yet substantiated theory", or else it's got the whole weight of science behind it. Or else that scientist would soon be drummed out of the community.

So your claim that it's "pure unsubstantiated conjecture" doesn't hold much water. I think you probably ought to stop using the products of science altogether - no telling when a bit of scientific magic will end up being the work of the devil.

Indeed, you have all of science at your disposal, now show your evidence that the sun predates the earth.

 

[Sonofason]

We have examples of early star formation and plantary systems. https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/yss/display.cfm?ThemeID=2&Tab=Educational Resources That really took no time at all.

Come on, can't you find the evidence? Do I really need to sift through all this information myself. You say the evidence exists to prove that the sun predates the earth. Surely you can submit that evidence. Well, apparently, you can't. It's okay. It's impossible to prove that which exists only in theory.

 

[Alceste]

Mythology isn't supposed to be taken literally. They're stories that speak on a deeper level.

I'll buy that. In fact, to the extent that I accept the possibility of a higher power, I believe it is responsible for all of our art, music, mythology and stories. Particularly that which erodes the boundary between our isolation and our sense of belonging to the world.

IMO, art is of God and religion is of men. The books of the bible are art. The way those books have been compiled, misrepresented and abused are religion.