Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

[Brickjectivity]

Sun predating the Earth? If the Sun forms or ignites after the Earth forms, there are some problems with simulating that based only upon these observations. In other words current observations +simulations do not lead to that conclusion. Therefore it is a conclusion that is not reached 'Scientifically', and so it does not have 'Scientific' support. The formation of the Sun before the Earth does seem to come as a direct result of applying classical physics by using computer simulations of space particles. Also, if such simulations turn out to be useful in other ways, it lends them credibility, makes them more likely to be near to the truth. For example if a particular model predicts the sizes or numbers of planets in our solar system or some other aspect then it is thought of as a better model than another.

 

[Desert Snake]

Sun predating the Earth? If the Sun forms or ignites after the Earth forms, there are some problems with simulating that based only upon these observations. In other words current observations +simulations do not lead to that conclusion. Therefore it is a conclusion that is not reached 'Scientifically', and so it does not have 'Scientific' support. The formation of the Sun before the Earth does seem to come as a direct result of applying classical physics by using computer simulations of space particles. Also, if such simulations turn out to be useful in other ways, it lends them credibility, makes them more likely to be near to the truth. For example if a particular model predicted the sizes or number of planets in our solar system, then it would be thought of as a better model than another.

They find elements on earth that supposedly predate the sun, right? So, we aren't just looking at some 'obvious' scenario of the sun predating the earth, imo, planets and planetoids fly into star areas and become part of a system...pretty willdd mannn!!!!!!


'planetoid'.

 

[Brickjectivity]

They find elements on earth that supposedly predate the sun, right? So, we aren't just looking at some 'obvious' scenario of the sun predating the earth, imo, planets and planetoids fly into star areas and become part of a system...pretty willdd mannn!!!!!!


'planetoid'.

I'm a layman, and I'm definitely giving a simplified view. The elements in Earth were likely formed within stars and supernovas (though Earth does not come from the Sun). We can observe using light spectra that heavy elements appear within stars and supernovas, and we can simulate (mostly mathematically with computers but also with limited physical simulation) the formation of elements as it happens in stars and supernovas. It also appears that the stars and supernovas only need hydrogen to form which is the lightest element, but they can make heavier elements by fusing smaller ones together. Formation of elements has to do with the high gravity and pressure inside of stars. Most likely every element except hydrogen has already been inside a star long before it was inside of a planet and then was expelled during a supernova event. Simulations predict formation of planets long, long after such events as well as the formation of new stars. The sun is thought to be a relatively new star.

 

[LuisDantas]

I truly think the answer to the thread's title question - "Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?" - is that the concept is meant for that.

Is it at all reasonable to expect to be certain of God's existence or will? I don't think so. I don't even think the concept was developed early on with the intent of people actually believing in it.

 

[McBell]

I have no experience in dating the age of the earth. I have no experience in dating the age of the sun. I have seen no evidence that anyone has such an ability. I have no personal experience whatsoever to confirm any of the secondary evidences that you might be referring to with regard to the age of the sun and earth. I have no reason to believe anyone on this matter until I see at least some compelling evidence.

Sounds like you have yourself a nice little safety net.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I truly think the answer to the thread's title question - "Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?" - is that the concept is meant for that.

Is it at all reasonable to expect to be certain of God's existence or will? I don't think so. I don't even think the concept was developed early on with the intent of people actually believing in it.

I think it is or was related to the ideal that is sought after between extremes. For example in nature there are extremes. If you drink no water you die, but if you drink too much water you also die. How much water would you drink ideally to maximize its benefit? How nice should you be to someone? If you are too nice, you will ruin your relationship. If you are not nice enough you will do the same. So, imagine that to all extremes there is an appropriate middle position. How can you know what that appropriate middle is? Probably this had something to do with the discovery of 'God'.

 

[Sonofason]

Sounds like you have yourself a nice little safety net.

Look, many atheists will deny or have various doubts about the existence of God because they believe they have had no experience of God's existence. They believe there is no evidence of His existence. It could be that evidence supporting the existence of God does exist, but the atheist is quite simply not aware of it. It could be that some atheists have experienced God, but have since been convinced, for whatever the reason, that their experience of God's existence was not an experience of God's existence at all, but rather an experience of something else entirely. It could be that some atheists have experienced God, but they were not aware that they were experiencing the existence of God.

Thus the atheist perceives that no God exists.

Well, it seems that none of us are content to have no answers. We want answers. Why are we here? How did we get here? There must be a reason. There must be a cause. Whether we are right or wrong, we will come up with answers to these questions.

So we explore the universe for answers. We experiment. We test. We come up with models and hypotheses. If our models and hypotheses are not extinguished as a result of being obviously false, we cling to them until they are extinguished.

If a theory or hypothesis is not proven false, it does not necessarily follow that the hypothesis is true. It could be true, or it could be false.

Perhaps you believe the Sun predates the earth. Perhaps you believe that you have seen evidence that the Sun predates the earth. If so, I'd love to see it. I do not discount the possibility that this is true, but I am not convinced that it is true. Convince me.

It seems to me, that you too have yourself a "nice little safety net".

 

[McBell]

I have no experience in dating the age of the earth. I have no experience in dating the age of the sun. I have seen no evidence that anyone has such an ability. I have no personal experience whatsoever to confirm any of the secondary evidences that you might be referring to with regard to the age of the sun and earth. I have no reason to believe anyone on this matter until I see at least some compelling evidence.

Sounds like you have yourself a nice little safety net.

Look, many atheists will deny or have various doubts about the existence of God because they believe they have had no experience of God's existence. They believe there is no evidence of His existence. It could be that evidence supporting the existence of God does exist, but the atheist is quite simply not aware of it. It could be that some atheists have experienced God, but have since been convinced, for whatever the reason, that their experience of God's existence was not an experience of God's existence at all, but rather an experience of something else entirely. It could be that some atheists have experienced God, but they were not aware that they were experiencing the existence of God.

Thus the atheist perceives that no God exists.

Well, it seems that none of us are content to have no answers. We want answers. Why are we here? How did we get here? There must be a reason. There must be a cause. Whether we are right or wrong, we will come up with answers to these questions.

So we explore the universe for answers. We experiment. We test. We come up with models and hypotheses. If our models and hypotheses are not extinguished as a result of being obviously false, we cling to them until they are extinguished.

If a theory or hypothesis is not proven false, it does not necessarily follow that the hypothesis is true. It could be true, or it could be false.

Perhaps you believe the Sun predates the earth. Perhaps you believe that you have seen evidence that the Sun predates the earth. If so, I'd love to see it. I do not discount the possibility that this is true, but I am not convinced that it is true. Convince me.

It seems to me, that you too have yourself a "nice little safety net".

Beautiful rant.

unfortunately, it has nothing to do with my point.


Perhaps you would like to try again?

 

[Sonofason]

Beautiful rant.

unfortunately, it has nothing to do with my point.


Perhaps you would like to try again?

If indeed you were making a point. I believe I have addressed it. If I have not addressed it, perhaps you can present your point in a clear and understandable manner, so that I might as you say, "try again".

 

[McBell]

If indeed you were making a point. I believe I have addressed it. If I have not addressed it, perhaps you can present your point in a clear and understandable manner, so that I might as you say, "try again".

you created a safety net which lets you dismiss whatever you dislike based solely on your own ability to believe and or understand it.

You have a blatant double standard on what you will accept as "evidence" and what you will not.

You have thoroughly demonstrated in the very thread.

 

[Iti oj]

The only thing that suggest god is other people.

 

[outhouse]

The only thing that suggest god is other people.

Very true.

and they all describe it differently

 

[Sonofason]

you created a safety net which lets you dismiss whatever you dislike based solely on your own ability to believe and or understand it.

You have a blatant double standard on what you will accept as "evidence" and what you will not.

You have thoroughly demonstrated in the very thread.

At this point, I have not been shown any evidence for which to dismiss. I am not suggesting that I know for any matter of fact that the Sun does not predate the Earth. It may. But until I see some evidence of this supposed fact, why should I believe it?

Everything anyone believes, they believe because they have an ability to believe and/or understand it. Everything you believe, you are capable of believing. Personally, I prefer evidence. I find it difficult to place my faith in claims for which no evidence is presented.

I have not seen any scientific evidence that the Sun predates the earth, and I have not heard of any personal knowledge or claims from anyone who might have experienced such knowledge first hand. If you have something -- anything that even remotely resembles evidence, by all means, present it.

 

[columbus]

I'm a layman, and I'm definitely giving a simplified view. The elements in Earth were likely formed within stars and supernovas (though Earth does not come from the Sun). We can observe using light spectra that heavy elements appear within stars and supernovas, and we can simulate (mostly mathematically with computers but also with limited physical simulation) the formation of elements as it happens in stars and supernovas. It also appears that the stars and supernovas only need hydrogen to form which is the lightest element, but they can make heavier elements by fusing smaller ones together. Formation of elements has to do with the high gravity and pressure inside of stars. Most likely every element except hydrogen has already been inside a star long before it was inside of a planet and then was expelled during a supernova event. Simulations predict formation of planets long, long after such events as well as the formation of new stars. The sun is thought to be a relatively new star.

But you don't have compelling evidence to back up your beliefs, such as the campfire stories of bronze age goat herders.

Tom

 

[ZooGirl02]

I believe that a large part of the reason why people have doubts about God is ignorance. However, I also believe that there are a lot of people out there who refuse to accept God (according to the Catholic belief system) simply because they enjoy their sins too much to repent and so they try to soothe their consciences by convincing themselves that God does not exist. I also believe that there are some who sincerely cannot get the faith required to believe in God despite trying to believe. For those people, I think that it is quite sad. I honestly feel like a very strong prayer life is essential to having a strong faith.

 

[Sapiens]

I believe that a large part of the reason why people have doubts about God is ignorance. However, I also believe that there are a lot of people out there who refuse to accept God (according to the Catholic belief system) simply because they enjoy their sins too much to repent and so they try to soothe their consciences by convincing themselves that God does not exist. I also believe that there are some who sincerely cannot get the faith required to believe in God despite trying to believe. For those people, I think that it is quite sad. I honestly feel like a very strong prayer life is essential to having a strong faith.

What about me? I'm not ignorant when it comes to your belief system, I do not refuse to accept your God (there is no reason to accept that which does not exist, in fact that question never even comes up), I am not what you'd describe as a sinner, I don't drink much, I don't smoke at all, I don't do drugs, I've been married for thirty fully faithful years (which the possible exception of sometimes colorful speech and my propensity for disbelief in gods and other authorities), I'm not trying to believe since I am disinterested in doing so, and I think a strong prayer life is an abysmal and demeaning existence, I love life and the world around me.

 

[outhouse]

I believe that a large part of the reason why people have doubts about God is ignorance..

Just the opposite with me.

With biblical education one can clearly see how only man defined and factually created mythology.

Education and knowledge sealed my atheism forever im afraid.

For me to believe in any god would be the same as forcing a parent to believe in Santa Claus as actually existing in reality.

 

[LuisDantas]

I believe that a large part of the reason why people have doubts about God is ignorance.

I agree, but for reasons that are probably at odds with yours: when correctly understood, the concept of God is not suitable for sustaining doubts. Believers must take responsibility for what they attribute to their deities.

However, I also believe that there are a lot of people out there who refuse to accept God (according to the Catholic belief system) simply because they enjoy their sins too much to repent and so they try to soothe their consciences by convincing themselves that God does not exist.

I would not be very surprised to learn that such people do not exist at all. There are probably some, but they tend to be less than completely sane.

I also believe that there are some who sincerely cannot get the faith required to believe in God despite trying to believe. For those people, I think that it is quite sad. I honestly feel like a very strong prayer life is essential to having a strong faith.

Do you see a point in a inate atheist attempting to develop belief nevertheless?

 

[Ouroboros]

For those people, I think that it is quite sad. I honestly feel like a very strong prayer life is essential to having a strong faith.

What is a "strong" prayer life to you? How would you define it? Is it the length of prayer or the sincerity with which it was uttered? Is a 2 second prayer which was done with full honesty from the heart more or less "strong" compared to one done for 24 hours?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

What about me? I'm not ignorant when it comes to your belief system, I do not refuse to accept your God (there is no reason to accept that which does not exist, in fact that question never even comes up), I am not what you'd describe as a sinner, I don't drink much, I don't smoke at all, I don't do drugs, I've been married for thirty fully faithful years (which the possible exception of sometimes colorful speech and my propensity for disbelief in gods and other authorities), I'm not trying to believe since I am disinterested in doing so, and I think a strong prayer life is an abysmal and demeaning existence, I love life and the world around me.

With the exception that I've been with my wife 18 years rather than 30, this applies to me also.