Sonofason
Well-Known Member
If I thought you understood the physics, I might ask you to explain what you know. But my guess is that you don't know enough to know anything about why you think the sun predates the earth.
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Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?
- Thread starter DawudTalut
- Start date
If I thought you understood the physics, I might ask you to explain what you know. But my guess is that you don't know enough to know anything about why you think the sun predates the earth.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Well, I have a Bible which declares the existence of God. Does the patient in the nut house have any documentation confirming his existence as Napoleon?
I have a Savior who has spoken of and who has promised that I would experience God. Does the patient in the nut house have anyone promising that he would believe he is Napoleon?
The experience I have of God, thousands of other God loving people also have. But you don't. I wonder why.
I exist.
Does this person in the nut house exist that you claim believes that he is Napoleon? Or are you just making him up?
The experience I have of God is a result of me following the direction of God's Son. Did your fake nuthouse patient follow some particular instruction in order to believe that he is Napoleon?
What is this guys name? Hurry now. Google's got to have something for you.
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Sapiens
Polymathematician
That is not evidence of anything except that you have a book. I have an entire library ... does that trump your measly one book, lots of my books declare all sorts of stuff, some that I cotton to, some that I don't.
Wiki:
Joshua Abraham Norton (c. 1819[2] – January 8, 1880), the self-proclaimed Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton I, was a celebrated citizen of San Francisco, California, who in 1859 proclaimed himself "Emperor of these United States"[3] and subsequently "Protector of Mexico"
He had lots of documentation, even his own currency:
Sure, Norton was loved and revered by the citizens of San Francisco. Although penniless, he regularly ate at the finest restaurants in San Francisco; restaurateurs took it upon themselves to add brass plaques in their entrances declaring "y Appointment to his Imperial Majesty, Emperor Norton I of the United States."[25] Norton's self-penned Imperial seals of approval were prized and a substantial boost to trade. No play or musical performance in San Francisco would dare to open without reserving balcony seats for Norton.[10]
A rumor started by the devoted Norton caricaturist Ed Jump claims he had two dogs, Bummer and Lazarus, which were also notable San Francisco celebrities.[26] Though he did not own the dogs, Norton ate at free lunch counters where he shared his meals with the dogs.[6]
In 1867, a policeman named Armand Barbier arrested Norton to commit him to involuntary treatment for a mental disorder.[3] The Emperor's arrest outraged the citizens and sparked scathing editorials in the newspapers. Police Chief Patrick Crowley ordered Norton released and issued a formal apology on behalf of the police force.[10] Crowley wrote "that he had shed no blood; robbed no one; and despoiled no country; which is more than can be said of his fellows in that line."[12] Norton magnanimously granted what he considered an Imperial Pardon to the errant policeman. All police officers of San Francisco thereafter saluted Norton as he passed in the street.[24]
Norton did receive some tokens of recognition for his position. The 1870 U.S. census lists Joshua Norton as 50 years old and residing at 624 Commercial Street; his occupation was listed as Emporer [sic]. It also noted he was insane.[4][27] Norton also issued his own money to pay for his debts, and it became an accepted local currency in San Francisco. These notes came in denominations between fifty cents and ten dollars; the few surviving notes are collector's items. The city of San Francisco also honored Norton. When his uniform began to look shabby, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors bought him a suitably regal replacement. Norton sent a gracious thank you note and issued a "patent of nobility in perpetuity" for each supervisor.[28]
Emperor Norton existed.
Naw, he was just nuttier than a fruitcake ... you know, kinda like you only sweeter.
Norton N-O-R-T-O-N
Actually: Joshua Abraham Norton.
Oh yes, he was religious too: During one of his city inspection tours Norton is said to have performed one of his most famous acts of diplomacy. During the 1860s and 1870s, there were occasional anti-Chinese demonstrations in the poorer districts of San Francisco. Riots, sometimes resulting in fatalities, took place. During one incident, Norton allegedly positioned himself between the rioters and their Chinese targets; with a bowed head, he started reciting the Lord's Prayer repeatedly until the rioters dispersed without incident.[24]
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Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
adi2d
Active Member
Touchy touchy.
You added many things to this post that was absent earlier. You said your evidence was the belief that God touched you. A mental process that you can't show anyone else. There are many examples of patients believe that they are someone else. Google it yourself
You have no idea of my relationship with God
You discounted written ideas about age of earth and sun. Why should I accept your holy book is true without evidence
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
That is not evidence of anything except that you have a book. I have an entire library ... does that trump your measly one book, lots of my books declare all sorts of stuff, some that I cotton to, some that I don't.
Wiki:
Joshua Abraham Norton (c. 1819[2] January 8, 1880), the self-proclaimed Imperial Majesty Emperor Norton I, was a celebrated citizen of San Francisco, California, who in 1859 proclaimed himself "Emperor of these United States"[3] and subsequently "Protector of Mexico"
He had lots of documentation, even his own currency:
Sure, Norton was loved and revered by the citizens of San Francisco. Although penniless, he regularly ate at the finest restaurants in San Francisco; restaurateurs took it upon themselves to add brass plaques in their entrances declaring "y Appointment to his Imperial Majesty, Emperor Norton I of the United States."[25] Norton's self-penned Imperial seals of approval were prized and a substantial boost to trade. No play or musical performance in San Francisco would dare to open without reserving balcony seats for Norton.[10]
A rumor started by the devoted Norton caricaturist Ed Jump claims he had two dogs, Bummer and Lazarus, which were also notable San Francisco celebrities.[26] Though he did not own the dogs, Norton ate at free lunch counters where he shared his meals with the dogs.[6]
In 1867, a policeman named Armand Barbier arrested Norton to commit him to involuntary treatment for a mental disorder.[3] The Emperor's arrest outraged the citizens and sparked scathing editorials in the newspapers. Police Chief Patrick Crowley ordered Norton released and issued a formal apology on behalf of the police force.[10] Crowley wrote "that he had shed no blood; robbed no one; and despoiled no country; which is more than can be said of his fellows in that line."[12] Norton magnanimously granted what he considered an Imperial Pardon to the errant policeman. All police officers of San Francisco thereafter saluted Norton as he passed in the street.[24]
Norton did receive some tokens of recognition for his position. The 1870 U.S. census lists Joshua Norton as 50 years old and residing at 624 Commercial Street; his occupation was listed as Emporer [sic]. It also noted he was insane.[4][27] Norton also issued his own money to pay for his debts, and it became an accepted local currency in San Francisco. These notes came in denominations between fifty cents and ten dollars; the few surviving notes are collector's items. The city of San Francisco also honored Norton. When his uniform began to look shabby, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors bought him a suitably regal replacement. Norton sent a gracious thank you note and issued a "patent of nobility in perpetuity" for each supervisor.[28]
Emperor Norton existed.
Naw, he was just nuttier than a fruitcake ... you know, kinda like you only sweeter.
Norton N-O-R-T-O-N
Actually: Joshua Abraham Norton.
Oh yes, he was religious too: During one of his city inspection tours Norton is said to have performed one of his most famous acts of diplomacy. During the 1860s and 1870s, there were occasional anti-Chinese demonstrations in the poorer districts of San Francisco. Riots, sometimes resulting in fatalities, took place. During one incident, Norton allegedly positioned himself between the rioters and their Chinese targets; with a bowed head, he started reciting the Lord's Prayer repeatedly until the rioters dispersed without incident.[24]
Actually, the Bible is not one book. It is indeed a library. It is a canonized collection of 66 books written by 40 different authors spanning several centuries, all giving historical and personal accounts of their lives and their relationships with God. Some sections of the Bible are straight forward history. But there are other sections of this library which include poetry, saga, biography and exhortation. All of the authors of this canonized collection of books wrote what they wrote with God being the central theme. It was God who inspired them to write what they wrote. If not, you would see a history without God. You would read the poetry with no mention of God. You would hear the sagas and the biographies with no mention at all of God.
But God exists, and when people know that God exists, they write about Him. So would you, but you sadly lack the experience of God to write about God. Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
If you have a relationship with God, then why are you arguing with me about the existence of God? I can see why those who know not God would like to speak vaguely as to whether or not they actually do have a relationship with God, as no one likes to feel like others have an entitlement to experience something which they themselves are incapable of experiencing.
I realize that some people are ill. Do you think I am ill? By all means, send your physicians.
Yes, I discount written ideas about the age of the earth and sun. I prefer evidence. I am not asking you to accept the Bible as true without evidence. I am your evidence right now, and I am telling you that the Bible speaks of a God that is true, and I am telling you, promising you, that if you abide in this book, if you truly seek God with all your heart, you will have greater evidence than my word.
One good reason for you to accept this book is because I accept this book.
You can try to convince yourself that I belong in a nut house, but I think you know that is not the case.
adi2d
Active Member
I certainly never meant to imply that you were crazy. I was only saying that feeling are not evidence that you can show others.
Just as you can't accept scientific theories on age of sun and earth as evidence
But at least we all agree that the sun and earth exist. I guess that's a start
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Why do people deny or have various doubts about God? ....that's easy to answer, why do people deny or have various doubt's about unicorns, big foot, fairies, and whatever your imagination brings up ?.
Alceste
Vagabond
I'm pretty sure someone already posted the wikis on the age of the earth, age of the sun, and age of the earth for you. St. Frank, maybe? But if you don't want to go back through the thread, just go to Wikipedia yourself and look it up. There's no "controversy" over what is older than what. Most creationists haven't cottoned onto the fact that science is at odds with the order in genesis. They're too busy rejecting biology to notice the bible got physics wrong as well.
The question we should be asking is "Why do people with doubts about God persist in believing in God?" But that would be the subject for a different and more practical thread.
McBell
Unbound
Now that you have clearly shown your dishonesty, I shall let you be.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Yes, we can agree on that. The earth and the sun certainly do appear to exist.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure is not sure enough. You for some reason want me to believe that the sun predates the earth. You believe that the sun predates the earth. I personally don't know. I hear claims that the sun predates the earth. And I'm sure you've heard similar claims. But I have not seen the evidence. I'll go one more step and surmise that you have never seen any such evidence either. And this begs the question: Why do you believe that the sun predates the earth? Is it simply because some scientist, or group of scientists, make claims that the sun predates the earth? What is your reason for holding this belief?
Everyone keeps telling me to do some research. Yet, you all believe the sun predates the earth, but none of you can explain why you believe this. Oh what faith you have in science!! I call that sort of faith blind faith.
Just show some evidence, and perhaps I could be persuaded. Tell me why you believe it, and maybe I could be persuaded.
But I honestly don't think you can come up with a valid argument, a convincing argument showing that the sun predates the earth.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Please provide evidence that I am being dishonest. It's easy, I see, for you to make unsubstantiated claims. Perhaps for once, you can try to back up your claims.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
I had no doubts that you could find a person in a google search who had a Napoleon complex. But if it makes you feel better, thanks.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
Who needs a google search, I grew up in the Bay Area, every school child there knows the stories about Emperor Norton, even if you did not.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Well, I am truly amazed that the educational institution finds such things so noteworthy to teach every school child about such a fellow. You are amazing.
Sapiens
Polymathematician
He was a much beloved character in San Francisco.
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1] January 8, 1880 – Norton I dropped dead on California St. at Grant Ave. He was on his way to a lecture at the Academy of Natural Sciences. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
January 9, 1880 – Headline in the Morning Call: “Norton the First, by the grace of God Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico, departed this life.” [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
January 10, 1880 – Norton I was buried today at Masonic Cemetery. The funeral cortege was two miles long. 10,000 people turned out for the funeral. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
June 30, 1934 – Emperor Norton I reburied in Woodlawn Cemetery by citizens of San Francisco. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
January 7, 1980 – The city marked the 100th anniversary of the death of its only monarch, Emperor Norton, with lunch-hour ceremonies at Market and Montgomery streets. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1] January 8, 1880 – Norton I dropped dead on California St. at Grant Ave. He was on his way to a lecture at the Academy of Natural Sciences. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
January 9, 1880 – Headline in the Morning Call: “Norton the First, by the grace of God Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico, departed this life.” [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
January 10, 1880 – Norton I was buried today at Masonic Cemetery. The funeral cortege was two miles long. 10,000 people turned out for the funeral. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
June 30, 1934 – Emperor Norton I reburied in Woodlawn Cemetery by citizens of San Francisco. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Geneva,Helvetica,Arial,sans][SIZE=-1]
January 7, 1980 – The city marked the 100th anniversary of the death of its only monarch, Emperor Norton, with lunch-hour ceremonies at Market and Montgomery streets. [/SIZE][/FONT]
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Because we're human.