Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

[Sonofason]

Age models are theoretical based on mathematical models, abstracts and logic. This models work but can never been proven in a direct real time observations based evaluations. The whole question is a strawman as you are demand a level of evidence which is outside the standard of theoretical models.

Well then I guess you're going to have a hard time convincing me that the sun predates the earth.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't think these are the reasons. I know some Atheists who are incredibly pious, chaste, altruistic and generous.

It depends on what you mean by God.
I am a Christian, and I deny the existence of a God who wants to be adored and prayed. I deny the existence of a prideful God that wants anybody to believe in his existence.
I believe in God as Law, as wisdom and as justice. So if an Atheist struggles for justice and love, then they're already a Christian.

God will not sever the believers from the non-believers, on the Doomsday.
God will sever the wicked from among the just.

A Pious atheist? Um, ok

 

[Sonofason]

I don't think these are the reasons. I know some Atheists who are incredibly pious, chaste, altruistic and generous.

It depends on what you mean by God.
I am a Christian, and I deny the existence of a God who wants to be adored and prayed. I deny the existence of a prideful God that wants anybody to believe in his existence.
I believe in God as Law, as wisdom and as justice. So if an Atheist struggles for justice and love, then they're already a Christian.

God will not sever the believers from the non-believers, on the Doomsday.
God will sever the wicked from among the just.

Yet, it is my perception that I experience the presence of God during the moments God finds me adoring Him and praying to Him.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Telling me how many helium and hydrogen atoms exist on the sun is not evidence that the sun predates the earth. If you think it is evidence of this, please explain why you think I should consider it as evidence.

What is evidence in your mind? Bible verses? Do I need to find the biblical verse that would tell you the sun came before the earth?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You're getting closer to the truth.

Do you know what a pragmatic assumption is?

 

[Shad]

Well then I guess you're going to have a hard time convincing me that the sun predates the earth.

I accept that. You either accept that data and math or you do not. However such lines of though have implications on more than just the age of the Sol or Earth. You are tossing a few methodologies out the window in other fields of science and history especially in the case when both cross over or corroborate

 

[Sonofason]

What is evidence in your mind? Bible verses? Do I need to find the biblical verse that would tell you the sun came before the earth?

I had said, if you think that telling me how many helium and hydrogen atoms exist on the sun is evidence that the sun predates the earth, please explain why you think I should consider this information as evidence.

Instead, you ask me what I consider to be evidence. Perhaps you should actually tell me how many hydrogen atoms remain in the sun. Perhaps you should actually tell me how many helium atoms exist in the sun. Perhaps you should explain to me how knowing the age of the sun shows that it is older than the earth. Perhaps you should tell me the age of the earth, and the means by which you believe you know the age of the earth. Perhaps you should explain why I should believe that the dating methods that you are using are reliable. How about we start there?

 

[Sonofason]

I accept that. You either accept that data and math or you do not. However such lines of though have implications on more than just the age of the Sol or Earth. You are tossing a few methodologies out the window in other fields of science and history especially in the case when both cross over or corroborate

And I can accept that.

 

[Sonofason]

Do you know what a pragmatic assumption is?

It seems that every person that has ventured into the lion's den has been devoured by the lions. Therefore, I assume that if I were to venture into the lions den, I too will be devoured by lions.

"So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!”

A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the rings of his nobles, so that Daniel’s situation might not be changed. Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him. And he could not sleep.

At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions’ den. When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?”

Daniel answered, “May the king live forever!""
(Daniel 6:16-21)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My doubts are placed within the human animal, who probably would not be able to comprehend or understand any sort of god-like entity if one (or multiple) exist. If this god exist outside of the three dimensions we are capable of perceiving, then we probably couldn't know. How can we know of anything about any sort of god when we know so very little about ourselves and our own home? We don't even definitively know if there is other intelligent and sentient life in the universe. We don't even know if this is the only universe, and what, if anything, lies outside of it. God, or any sort of creator (not necessarily a "god" though) for now just seems to be entirely outside of our current knowledge and perception.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

It seems that every person that has ventured into the lion's den has been devoured by the lions. Therefore, I assume that if I were to venture into the lions den, I too will be devoured by lions.

"So the king gave the order, and they brought Daniel and threw him into the lions’ den. The king said to Daniel, “May your God, whom you serve continually, rescue you!”

A stone was brought and placed over the mouth of the den, and the king sealed it with his own signet ring and with the rings of his nobles, so that Daniel’s situation might not be changed. Then the king returned to his palace and spent the night without eating and without any entertainment being brought to him. And he could not sleep.

At the first light of dawn, the king got up and hurried to the lions’ den. When he came near the den, he called to Daniel in an anguished voice, “Daniel, servant of the living God, has your God, whom you serve continually, been able to rescue you from the lions?”

Daniel answered, “May the king live forever!""
(Daniel 6:16-21)

How do you know they have been devoured by lions?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I had said, if you think that telling me how many helium and hydrogen atoms exist on the sun is evidence that the sun predates the earth, please explain why you think I should consider this information as evidence.

Instead, you ask me what I consider to be evidence. Perhaps you should actually tell me how many hydrogen atoms remain in the sun. Perhaps you should actually tell me how many helium atoms exist in the sun. Perhaps you should explain to me how knowing the age of the sun shows that it is older than the earth. Perhaps you should tell me the age of the earth, and the means by which you believe you know the age of the earth. Perhaps you should explain why I should believe that the dating methods that you are using are reliable. How about we start there?

Lets tackle this one thing at a time.

What is the evidence of the age of the earth?
Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Short answer is radiometric dating. Now how do we know that radiometric dating is correct?
Radiometric dating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to know the evidence first hand then go to a lab or go read lab results.


As for the age of the sun we are able to determine it as follows.

1) know the mass of the sun.
2) Determine the composition of the sun through spectroscopy
3) Determine the rate in which helium is converted from hydrogen.

1) How do we determine the mass of the sun?
Finding the Mass of the Sun

2) How do we determine the composition? What is spectroscopy?
What is Spectroscopy?

3) How do we determine the rate in which the sun converts hydrogen to helium?
The Sun


From there its just math. And the math is there if you want to double check it be my guest.

 

[Sonofason]

How do you know they have been devoured by lions?

My dear friend, I was attempting to give an illustration of pragmatic assumption.

If I were to see that every single person thrown into the lions den was eaten by lions, I could make the pragmatic assumption that if I were to go into the lions den, I too would be consumed by lions. Take a breath.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

My dear friend, I was attempting to give an illustration of pragmatic assumption.

If I were to see that every single person thrown into the lions den was eaten by lions, I could make the pragmatic assumption that if I were to go into the lions den, I too would be consumed by lions. Take a breath.

Good. Very good. Do you see how it follows with the logical road you were starting on?

 

[Sonofason]

Lets tackle this one thing at a time.

What is the evidence of the age of the earth?
Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Short answer is radiometric dating. Now how do we know that radiometric dating is correct?
Radiometric dating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you want to know the evidence first hand then go to a lab or go read lab results.


As for the age of the sun we are able to determine it as follows.

1) know the mass of the sun.
2) Determine the composition of the sun through spectroscopy
3) Determine the rate in which helium is converted from hydrogen.

1) How do we determine the mass of the sun?
Finding the Mass of the Sun

2) How do we determine the composition? What is spectroscopy?
What is Spectroscopy?

3) How do we determine the rate in which the sun converts hydrogen to helium?
The Sun


From there its just math. And the math is there if you want to double check it be my guest.

I do not see any evidence that radio-carbon dating is a reliable method of dating, when dealing with the ages of things that existed long ago. How can I be sure that the half-life of atoms of a radioactive nuclide decays at the same rate today as it did a million years ago, or even a thousand years ago?

 

[Sonofason]

Good. Very good. Do you see how it follows with the logical road you were starting on?

Of course not. There exists, in my opinion, something believers refer to as divine intervention.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I do not see any evidence that radio-carbon dating is a reliable method of dating, when dealing with the ages of things that existed long ago. How can I be sure that the half-life of atoms of a radioactive nuclide decays at the same rate today as it did a million years ago, or even a thousand years ago?

Because there is no evidence that they change. We see atoms that are younger and older. Both still decay at the same rate. We see them in drastically different circumstances. Both decay at the same rate.

You would now need to state a reason that we cannot follow this evidence. Simply casting doubt is a good thing. But we have to tackle things pragmatically. This ties into the other post in that we don't know for sure that the universe wasn't created five seconds ago with our memories in-tact as we remember them now. But pragmatically we can't do that. We have to go where the evidence supports. If both young and old and regardless of the condition in their surroundings, this lends a strong argument in favor without an argument against. Now if you had evidence to the contrary then we can talk.

 

[Sonofason]

Because there is no evidence that they change. We see atoms that are younger and older. Both still decay at the same rate. We see them in drastically different circumstances. Both decay at the same rate.

You would now need to state a reason that we cannot follow this evidence. Simply casting doubt is a good thing. But we have to tackle things pragmatically. This ties into the other post in that we don't know for sure that the universe wasn't created five seconds ago with our memories in-tact as we remember them now. But pragmatically we can't do that. We have to go where the evidence supports. If both young and old and regardless of the condition in their surroundings, this lends a strong argument in favor without an argument against. Now if you had evidence to the contrary then we can talk.

If you are seeing young carbon, and old carbon, how are you determining the age of the carbon that you find in the rocks surrounding a supposedly 6 million year old skeleton. How do you know if the carbon deposited near the bones were young or old when they were deposited?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Its got diddly-squat to do with science, universities, Dewey's decimal system or any theories. The main reason people have doubts about God is that people are the primary source of information about God, and people who talk about God have proven to be unreliable sources and often benefit financially. They're elegantly dressed elegantly speaking leeches.

 

[Brickjectivity]

"Miracles, miracles, miracles." "Give, give, give." That's why.