Why do people deny or have various doubts about God?

[Alceste]

Pretty sure is not sure enough. You for some reason want me to believe that the sun predates the earth. You believe that the sun predates the earth. I personally don't know. I hear claims that the sun predates the earth. And I'm sure you've heard similar claims. But I have not seen the evidence. I'll go one more step and surmise that you have never seen any such evidence either. And this begs the question: Why do you believe that the sun predates the earth? Is it simply because some scientist, or group of scientists, make claims that the sun predates the earth? What is your reason for holding this belief?

Everyone keeps telling me to do some research. Yet, you all believe the sun predates the earth, but none of you can explain why you believe this. Oh what faith you have in science!! I call that sort of faith blind faith.

Just show some evidence, and perhaps I could be persuaded. Tell me why you believe it, and maybe I could be persuaded.

But I honestly don't think you can come up with a valid argument, a convincing argument showing that the sun predates the earth.

No, you won't believe it, regardless of the quality of the evidence. Most people aren't stellar at physics. If you don't get the gist of photosynthesis, as you've shown in this thread, you're definitely going to struggle with stellar formation. Especially given that you've already decided to set yourself against whatever science has to say about it because the bible got the order wrong.

As for how I know, I had a basic science education at primary school that included a unit on the solar system. Unlike you, I also looked it up for the purposes of this thread, to see if there's any way to dumb down the physics of it enough for a pointless internet discussion I'm having on my phone with a person who rejects the validity of the scientific method. There isn't. Not that I can see. If you don't get the basic concept that the stars formed due to vast fields of nebulous matter collapsing into itself, and that planets formed from the leftover debris of this process, telling you a bunch of equations and posting images of spectral analysis isn't going to help. You and I both know that, so you might as well drop the act.

You can look it up or don't. It's none of my concern either way.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Pretty sure is not sure enough. You for some reason want me to believe that the sun predates the earth. You believe that the sun predates the earth. I personally don't know. I hear claims that the sun predates the earth. And I'm sure you've heard similar claims. But I have not seen the evidence. I'll go one more step and surmise that you have never seen any such evidence either. And this begs the question: Why do you believe that the sun predates the earth? Is it simply because some scientist, or group of scientists, make claims that the sun predates the earth? What is your reason for holding this belief?

Everyone keeps telling me to do some research. Yet, you all believe the sun predates the earth, but none of you can explain why you believe this. Oh what faith you have in science!! I call that sort of faith blind faith.

Just show some evidence, and perhaps I could be persuaded. Tell me why you believe it, and maybe I could be persuaded.

But I honestly don't think you can come up with a valid argument, a convincing argument showing that the sun predates the earth.

Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just googled a wiki for you. This is a good stepping stone but this is the jist.

#1) The earth orbits the sun. The earth's orbit is KEY to its formation and without the sun to orbit it couldn't have been formed.

#2) The heavy materials in the Earth could only have been forged in stars. Specifically a dead star that supernova-ed its guts out into the solar system to create the earth and other planets.

#3) We have taken calculations of the Earth's age and we are also able to calculate how long the sun as been around by its hydrogen to helium ratio. This gives us good numbers that indicate that the sun is in fact older than the Earth.

 

[Sapiens]

Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just googled a wiki for you. This is a good stepping stone but this is the jist.

#1) The earth orbits the sun. The earth's orbit is KEY to its formation and without the sun to orbit it couldn't have been formed.

#2) The heavy materials in the Earth could only have been forged in stars. Specifically a dead star that supernova-ed its guts out into the solar system to create the earth and other planets.

#3) We have taken calculations of the Earth's age and we are also able to calculate how long the sun as been around by its hydrogen to helium ratio. This gives us good numbers that indicate that the sun is in fact older than the Earth.

If you've not been to the sun and counted all them little helium and hydrogen atoms yourself I don't think that he will believe you.

 

[Iti oj]

No, you won't believe it, regardless of the quality of the evidence. Most people aren't stellar at physics. If you don't get the gist of photosynthesis, as you've shown in this thread, you're definitely going to struggle with stellar formation. Especially given that you've already decided to set yourself against whatever science has to say about it because the bible got the order wrong.

As for how I know, I had a basic science education at primary school that included a unit on the solar system. Unlike you, I also looked it up for the purposes of this thread, to see if there's any way to dumb down the physics of it enough for a pointless internet discussion I'm having on my phone with a person who rejects the validity of the scientific method. There isn't. Not that I can see. If you don't get the basic concept that the stars formed due to vast fields of nebulous matter collapsing into itself, and that planets formed from the leftover debris of this process, telling you a bunch of equations and posting images of spectral analysis isn't going to help. You and I both know that, so you might as well drop the act.

You can look it up or don't. It's none of my concern either way.

This.... Plus 1. Its a rabbit hole.

 

[Sonofason]

No, you won't believe it, regardless of the quality of the evidence. Most people aren't stellar at physics. If you don't get the gist of photosynthesis, as you've shown in this thread, you're definitely going to struggle with stellar formation. Especially given that you've already decided to set yourself against whatever science has to say about it because the bible got the order wrong.

As for how I know, I had a basic science education at primary school that included a unit on the solar system. Unlike you, I also looked it up for the purposes of this thread, to see if there's any way to dumb down the physics of it enough for a pointless internet discussion I'm having on my phone with a person who rejects the validity of the scientific method. There isn't. Not that I can see. If you don't get the basic concept that the stars formed due to vast fields of nebulous matter collapsing into itself, and that planets formed from the leftover debris of this process, telling you a bunch of equations and posting images of spectral analysis isn't going to help. You and I both know that, so you might as well drop the act.

You can look it up or don't. It's none of my concern either way.

As I said, you cannot show the evidence. Neither have you seen any evidence.

 

[Sonofason]

Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just googled a wiki for you. This is a good stepping stone but this is the jist.

#1) The earth orbits the sun. The earth's orbit is KEY to its formation and without the sun to orbit it couldn't have been formed.

#2) The heavy materials in the Earth could only have been forged in stars. Specifically a dead star that supernova-ed its guts out into the solar system to create the earth and other planets.

#3) We have taken calculations of the Earth's age and we are also able to calculate how long the sun as been around by its hydrogen to helium ratio. This gives us good numbers that indicate that the sun is in fact older than the Earth.

All you have shown is speculations. I see no evidence in anything you posted. Please quote the statements from your laughable stepping stone that you consider evidence that the sun predates the earth. All I see is claim upon claim, with zero evidence.

 

[Sonofason]

If you've not been to the sun and counted all them little helium and hydrogen atoms yourself I don't think that he will believe you.

Telling me how many helium and hydrogen atoms exist on the sun is not evidence that the sun predates the earth. If you think it is evidence of this, please explain why you think I should consider it as evidence.

 

[icehorse]

Telling me how many helium and hydrogen atoms exist on the sun is not evidence that the sun predates the earth. If you think it is evidence of this, please explain why you think I should consider it as evidence.

How much science education have you had? This will inform the sort of evidence one would need to provide you.

 

[Sonofason]

How much science education have you had? This will inform the sort of evidence one would need to provide you.

high school - Honors Biology, Honors Chemistry, Honors Physics

college - Chem 1, Chem 2, Physics 1, Physics 2, Physical Geography, Evolution, Soil Science, Hydrology, Ecology
GPA 3.65 BS

 

[Sapiens]

Telling me how many helium and hydrogen atoms exist on the sun is not evidence that the sun predates the earth. If you think it is evidence of this, please explain why you think I should consider it as evidence.

high school - Honors Biology, Honors Chemistry, Honors Physics

college - Chem 1, Chem 2, Physics 1, Physics 2, Physical Geography, Evolution, Soil Science, Hydrology, Ecology
GPA 3.65 BS

You have a BS with a GPA of 3..5 and you can't answer that question yourself? Must'a been a crackerjack school.

 

[Sonofason]

You have a BS with a GPA of 3..5 and you can't answer that question yourself? Must'a been a crackerjack school.

Alright, then you answer the question. Surely, you can answer the question. Please support your answer with evidence.

 

[Sapiens]

Read the thread, it's already been answered ... or did you fail to notice?

 

[Sonofason]

Read the thread, it's already been answered ... or did you fail to notice?

I must have failed to notice it. Please cite the number of the post, and I will certainly review it, and determine if it is actually evidence as you claim, or fluffed up rhetoric.

 

[Sapiens]

Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just googled a wiki for you. This is a good stepping stone but this is the jist.

#1) The earth orbits the sun. The earth's orbit is KEY to its formation and without the sun to orbit it couldn't have been formed.

#2) The heavy materials in the Earth could only have been forged in stars. Specifically a dead star that supernova-ed its guts out into the solar system to create the earth and other planets.

#3) We have taken calculations of the Earth's age and we are also able to calculate how long the sun as been around by its hydrogen to helium ratio. This gives us good numbers that indicate that the sun is in fact older than the Earth.

Wiki does seem to stump you on a routine basis. No wonder you disparage it.

I must have failed to notice it. Please cite the number of the post, and I will certainly review it, and determine if it is actually evidence as you claim, or fluffed up rhetoric.

I was unaware that you are actually qualified to tell the difference.

 

[Sonofason]

Wiki does seem to stump you on a routine basis. No wonder you disparage it.

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as evidence.
"The nebular hypothesis maintains that the Solar System formed from the gravitational collapse of a fragment of a giant molecular cloud."

A hypothesis is not necessarily a fact.

"The various planets are thought to have formed from the solar nebula, the disc-shaped cloud of gas and dust left over from the Sun's formation."

That which is thought to be so isn't necessarily so.

"One unresolved issue with this model is that it cannot explain how the initial orbits of the proto-terrestrial planets, which would have needed to be highly eccentric to collide, produced the remarkably stable and near-circular orbits the terrestrial planets possess today."

Unresolved issues?

"One hypothesis for this "eccentricity dumping" is that the terrestrials formed in a disc of gas still not expelled by the Sun."

Again, a hypothesis is not necessarily fact.

"The inner Solar System's period of giant impacts probably played a role in the Earth acquiring its current water content"

Probably?

I think you need to start over, and try again. Please show some actual evidence that the sun predates the earth.

 

[adi2d]

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as evidence.
"The nebular hypothesis maintains that the Solar System formed from the gravitational collapse of a fragment of a giant molecular cloud."

A hypothesis is not necessarily a fact.

"The various planets are thought to have formed from the solar nebula, the disc-shaped cloud of gas and dust left over from the Sun's formation."

That which is thought to be so isn't necessarily so.

"One unresolved issue with this model is that it cannot explain how the initial orbits of the proto-terrestrial planets, which would have needed to be highly eccentric to collide, produced the remarkably stable and near-circular orbits the terrestrial planets possess today."

Unresolved issues?

"One hypothesis for this "eccentricity dumping" is that the terrestrials formed in a disc of gas still not expelled by the Sun."

Again, a hypothesis is not necessarily fact.

"The inner Solar System's period of giant impacts probably played a role in the Earth acquiring its current water content"

Probably?

I think you need to start over, and try again. Please show some actual evidence that the sun predates the earth.

With your requirements no one knows anything

 

[McBell]

With your requirements no one knows anything

Sad he is unable to comprehend this fact.

 

[Sonofason]

With your requirements no one knows anything

You're getting closer to the truth.

 

[Sonofason]

Sad he is unable to comprehend this fact.

What is sad is that I waste so much time on you.

 

[Shad]

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as evidence.
"The nebular hypothesis maintains that the Solar System formed from the gravitational collapse of a fragment of a giant molecular cloud."

A hypothesis is not necessarily a fact.

"The various planets are thought to have formed from the solar nebula, the disc-shaped cloud of gas and dust left over from the Sun's formation."

That which is thought to be so isn't necessarily so.

"One unresolved issue with this model is that it cannot explain how the initial orbits of the proto-terrestrial planets, which would have needed to be highly eccentric to collide, produced the remarkably stable and near-circular orbits the terrestrial planets possess today."

Unresolved issues?

"One hypothesis for this "eccentricity dumping" is that the terrestrials formed in a disc of gas still not expelled by the Sun."

Again, a hypothesis is not necessarily fact.

"The inner Solar System's period of giant impacts probably played a role in the Earth acquiring its current water content"

Probably?

I think you need to start over, and try again. Please show some actual evidence that the sun predates the earth.

Age models are theoretical based on mathematical models, abstracts and logic. This models work but can never been proven in a direct real time observations based evaluations. The whole question is a strawman as you are demand a level of evidence which is outside the standard of theoretical models.