Why do people hate Muslims?

[icehorse]

That's exactly what happened during the World Wars, and the answer is right in front of you.

I'm not sure of this, but didn't they chose sides?

 

[icehorse]

It's not about Muhammad the Prophet (MP) or the Koran, but how these two are understood that makes the difference.

Yes. And if you study them parsimoniously you will find a high correlation with all of the violent history and regressive behaviors we see today: a supremacist worldview, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, anti-secularism...

 

[icehorse]

I don't see how. The point I'm making is I don't feel the need to be overly concerned being around Christians because Christian violence or general persecution of people like me, while not rare, is not the majority cases either. And instead of reacting to someone saying 'My Christian faith is very important to me with 'oh that must mean you voted against gay marriage because the bible is against homosexuality' with 'cool. I'm really involved in the gay community, how does your faith inform you actions regarding gay people?' The latter not making an assumption that my interpretation of the bible will be theirs, especially considering the majority of Christians no longer actively oppose many LGBT issues.

This has also been my experience with most Muslims.

I understand this post and agree with it as it stands. I don't see how it applies to our earlier conversation though...

 

[J2hapydna]

Yes. And if you study them parsimoniously you will find a high correlation with all of the violent history and regressive behaviors we see today: a supremacist worldview, misogyny, homophobia, anti-semitism, anti-secularism...

Ok, then please explain Quran 28:48-49 after studying them parsimoniously

 

[icehorse]

How do we study someone who lived 1,500 years ago?

Via the extensive scripture and biographies?

Ok, then please explain Quran 28:48-49 after studying them parsimoniusly

The Quran is wildly inconsistent with itself. For every "positive" verse you find, you can find many more negative verses. It is not parsimonious to do cherry-picking.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

You dismiss it as garbage by making childish comparisons. This proves my point, you can't be expected to do more. It's not your fault

It doesn't "prove your point" and anyone who believes it does is as misguided as you are.

It's not a "childish comparison," it's a simple analogy that serves to highlight your justification of the rape, torture and murder of women in the cultural contexts I mentioned by implicating the west.

Nice try.

I don't have much tolerance for self-loathing masochists.

 

[J2hapydna]

The Quran is wildly inconsistent with itself. For every "positive" verse you find, you can find many more negative verses. It is not parsimonious to do cherry-picking.

That may be true, but for now please explain what the verse is saying. Then I will let you show me where it says the opposite

 

[Fire_Monkey]

Actually, it isn't off-topic.

America involvement in the Middle East could be one of the many contributing factors why terrorism occurred.

I am not saying that is one factor, but many.

I am not saying that the US is solely to blame. They are partly to blame, but they are not responsible for radicalisation that lead to terrorism. The terrorists are to blame too, as well as many of the Middle East governments, because of the corruptions that exist there. And it is possible to partly blame the problem, Islam and Muhammad himself, because even the terrorists view him as a role model.

What it isn't, fire monkey, is to blame only on one party, and one party alone. The problem in the Middle East is far too complex, and there is no single black-and-white solution.

This is true. After WWI when a couple of former military officers literally drew proposed boundary lines on a cocktail napkin for the Middle East, and divvied it up like a couple kids playing Stratego, with no thought to the indigenous peoples living there, trouble was sure to follow. Syked-Piquot (sp?) was ill-conceived, to say the least. (yes, I know my history a bit.)

 

[J2hapydna]

The Quran is wildly inconsistent with itself. For every "positive" verse you find, you can find many more negative verses. It is not parsimonious to do cherry-picking.

Actually, if the text is inconsistent then people have a choice. That is a good thing not a bad thing

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Yes so true, this is how many women are being treated by Muslim men, if you can call them men.

Germany's immigration policies really blew up in their face rapidly. What's going on over there now is horrifying.

Islam is an international threat. It's no wonder populist movements across the world are gaining such quick momentum.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Actually, if the text is inconsistent then people have a choice. That is a good thing not a bad thing

If the text is inconsistent, then it renders any claims to be sacred or the arbiter of absolute truth to be obsolete.

 

[psychoslice]

Germany's immigration policies really blew up in their face rapidly. What's going on over there now is horrifying.

Islam is an international threat. It's no wonder populist movements across the world are gaining such quick momentum.

Yes the same is slowly happening here in Australia, I just cannot understand why they are letting this trash into our countries ???.

 

[J2hapydna]

Via the extensive scripture and biographies?

How do you know these biographers weren't lying about MP?

For example do you know that these biographies were written many years after MP and the first 4 caliphs were dead?

Also do you know that the 5th caliph and his father according to Islamic history were sworn enemies of MP for most of his life? Do you know that they tried several times to assassinate MP, until they were eventually defeated in battle and were allowed to convert about 2 years before MP died? Do you think these people loved and understood MP?

Also do you know that son of the 5th caliph became the 6th caliph? Do you know that the 6th had MPs grandson ruthlessly murdered according to Islamic history? So does this person sound like someone who would have a bigrapher in his court who could write a true biography of MP?

 

[icehorse]

How do you know these biographers weren't lying about MP?

For example do you know that these biographies were written many years after MP and the first 4 caliphs were dead?

Also do you know that the 5th caliph and his father according to Islamic history were sworn enemies of MP for most of his life? Do you know that they tried several times to assassinate MP, until they were eventually defeated in battle and were allowed to convert about 2 years before MP died? Do you think these people loved and understood MP?

Also do you know that son of the 5th caliph became the 6th caliph? Do you know that the 6th had MPs grandson ruthlessly murdered according to Islamic history? So does this person sound like someone who would have a bigrapher in his court who could write a true biography of MP?

Wait, did you just switch sides on this debate?

 

[J2hapydna]

If the text is inconsistent, then it renders any claims to be sacred or the arbiter of absolute truth to be obsolete.

Why don't you explain what Quran 28:48-50 is reporting? Then go ahead and show me where it says the opposite.

 

[J2hapydna]

Wait, did you just switch sides on this debate?

What I'm trying to make you realize is that there are several different beliefs within the Islamic community. So the problem is not the Quran and MP, but how they are understood

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Why don't you explain what Quran 28:48-50 is reporting? Then go ahead and show me where it says the opposite.

Read it.

Don't care what it says. I don't care what anything in the Quran says; it's garbage to me.

You've failed to contest my point because you've failed to even comprehend what I even said. I think you might've even misread my post to begin with.

Anyway, enjoy justifying the rape, torture and murder of women.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Wait, did you just switch sides on this debate?

I don't think this dude is all there.

 

[icehorse]

What I'm trying to make you realize is that there are several different beliefs within the Islamic community. So the problem is not the Quran and MP, but how they are understood

There are quibbles that have lasted 1000 years and cost countless lives. But the major points are not in dispute.

 

[sun rise]

Or it could be that we're more thoughtful, we've studied the ideology, and found it lacking.

You're incorrect in your assumption that I've not studied Islam.