Why do trinitarian ideologists say that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

[Soapy]

GINOLJC, to all.
ERROR, ERROR, ERROR. yes, U need to use context. "WHAT" is his name vs "WHO" he is in Name. EXAMPLE. if I asked you "WHAT" is the First woman name, if you say "Eve" you would be incorrect. because that is not "WHAT" her name is. let's see in scripture "WHAT" the first woman name is. Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." BINGO, her name is ADAM, because that's "WHAT" she is.... mankind.

now, if I would have asked, "WHO" is the FRIST Woman in Name, then the correct answer would be "EVE", because "EVE" identifies "WHO" she is in NAME vs "WHAT" she is in NAME. understand NOW?

so, let's go back to Exodus 3:13 and see what Moses ASKED God in CONTEX. "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?" and God gave Moses just what he asked.... "WHAT" is his name..... (smile)... "I AM". yes, a VERB to describe "WHAT" he is in NAME. I AM KING, I AM SAVIOUR, I AM, Creator, I AM, Redeemer..... ect..... well King, Saviour, Creator, and Redeemer, are not his Personal Name. LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh Dear.

now listen up for the TRUTH, concerning God name as to "WHO" he is in NAME. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

first thing, they didn't KNOW God personal name before, because Isaiah comes after Exodus. for if "I AM"/YHWH was his name as to WHO he is then there would be no reason for Isaiah 52:6 here. so, that right there should, by COMMON SENSE, let oner know that God personal name as to WHO he is was not KNOWN then in Exodus 3:13. but Isaiah 52:6 said God's people ... SHALL ..... which is future tense..... KNOW his name. because he said the way we will KNOW, is when he speaks his Name as to "WHO" he is in PERSON.. " they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.". I AM he? I AM..... he? well let's see that day. John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." there it is plain as DAY..... "I AM he". this is the Lord Jesus speaking..... now one more to seal the deal. John 8:57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

how plain can one get? now for one next mistake.

yes, Context, context, context. Listen up and LEARN, some say Peter name could be interpreted as stone, or rock, yes, but only a piece. Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Peter: G4074 Πέτρος Petros (pe'-tros) n/p.
1. a (piece of) rock.
2. as a name, Petrus, an apostle.
{larger than G3037}
[apparently a primary word]
KJV: Peter, rock

my source for this definition, Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
let's see who is the ROCK, and STONE where there is no need to interpret. LISTEN, and LEARN.
Isaiah 8:13 "Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread." Isaiah 8:14 "And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem." God is that "ROCK", who is JESUS. now, if that's not clear enough for you, TWO more. 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." NOW, one's last scripture, Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

GOD, the Lord Jesus is the "ROCK", so one can drop that Peter NONSENSE as the ROCK.

for "Yahweh", Hebrew, and Jehovah English, are false name. can we prove this from the bible itself? YES, FROM the BIBLE. to all, LISTEN, and LEARN. Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
God said, Abraham did not know him, God, by the Name, "I AM"/YHWH..... translated as JEHOVAH, or YAHWEH . well question, why then was the name JEHOVAH/"I AM"/YHWH/YAHWEH in Abraham mouth then? LISTEN ..... Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."

well now, Huston. we have a problem..... no correction, all those who believe that God name is "JEHOVAH/"I AM"/YHWH/"YAHWEH", they have a problem.

101G knows the answer here, but 101G would like to hear other explain why God .... suppose name is in Abraham mouth, when God said Abraham didn't know him by that name...... (smile)......... so do we have a contradiction in the bible? 101G say no. or is God lying, 101G say, God forbid NO!. is Abraham lying, not the Friend of God, NO. so what gives? .... (Smile). as said, I would love to hear other explanation. I just can't wait to hear other explain this.

PICJAG, 101G.

I know you are only here to act as a devil’s advocate. But be careful you don’t become permanently in that state (read what nearly happened to the Wizard in Earth Sea Trilogy by Ursula Le Guin when he turned himself into a falcon for too long a time!!)

God’s name is ‘YHWH’. It’s MEANING is “I am” - which is to say, “I am he that changeth not. I am he that is eternally the same”.

Just as one apostle is named ‘Peter’, and the meaning of his name is ‘Rock’ (or ‘Stone’), the name is used differently to the meaning by context though the word used is the same.

This is the same as when I ask about the MEANING of the word, ‘God’, as opposed to the PERSON who is God. It us clear that there can be - and are - many who are CALLED ‘GOD’… but only ONE who IS GOD:

• [Our] ‘God (1) is God (2)’
• The ‘Almighty One’ of our belief (1) is ‘All Mighty’ (2)

Context: The holy one OF OUR BELIEF…

In another belief, THEIR holy one is THEIR GOD.

So when I ask you about the sentence:

• ‘I am YHWH’

you cannot translate it as:

• ‘I am I am’

And neither can Jesus’ words be translated as:

• ‘Before Abraham, YHWH’

which is what Trinitarians are actually claiming that Jesus was saying. Notice that they do not and cannot say:

• ‘Before Abraham, GOD’

They really chop off their own tongues in their deceit. So do not try too hard being a devil’s advocate or else it can become a regretful vocation!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

and? ...... why Not? care to explain why not..... (smile).

we suggest you read 101G's post above.

101G.

It doesn't require an explanation. For example, if someone asked, "Is your name Bob" I only have to say no. I do not have to give reasons why my name is not Bob.

 

[101G]

I know you are only here to act as a devil’s advocate. But be careful you don’t become permanently in that state (read what nearly happened to the Wizard in Earth Sea Trilogy by Ursula Le Guin when he turned himself into a falcon for too long a time!!)

God’s name is ‘YHWH’. It’s MEANING is “I am” - which is to say, “I am he that changeth not. I am he that is eternally the same”.

Just as one apostle is named ‘Peter’, and the meaning of his name is ‘Rock’ (or ‘Stone’), the name is used differently to the meaning by context though the word used is the same.

This is the same as when I ask about the MEANING of the word, ‘God’, as opposed to the PERSON who is God. It us clear that there can be - and are - many who are CALLED ‘GOD’… but only ONE who IS GOD:

• [Our] ‘God (1) is God (2)’
• The ‘Almighty One’ of our belief (1) is ‘All Mighty’ (2)

Context: The holy one OF OUR BELIEF…

In another belief, THEIR holy one is THEIR GOD.

So when I ask you about the sentence:

• ‘I am YHWH’

you cannot translate it as:

• ‘I am I am’

And neither can Jesus’ words be translated as:

• ‘Before Abraham, YHWH’

which is what Trinitarians are actually claiming that Jesus was saying. Notice that they do not and cannot say:

• ‘Before Abraham, GOD’

They really chop off their own tongues in their deceit. So do not try too hard being a devil’s advocate or else it can become a regretful vocation!

so we can take this as you don't know God personal name ..... "JESUS"... thought so.... next.

101G.

 

[101G]

It doesn't require an explanation. For example, if someone asked, "Is your name Bob" I only have to say no. I do not have to give reasons why my name is not Bob.

LOL, LOL, LOL, proper names are important. I have aske people "WHAT" is your name and they gave me their nickname instead of their REAL: NAME, and they say, "This is what my friends call me". this is street slang. why not ask "WHO" are you? now we are in the TRUTH. let's see this in the bible.

Acts 9:1 "And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest," Acts 9:2 "And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem." Acts 9:3 "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:" Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?" Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

now if Moses would have asked God "WHO" art thou, (IN NAME), then God would have given him his Personal Name.... "JESUS", just as here with the apostle Paul.

ask the right question, one get the RIGHT ANSWER...... (smile), so try again...... .

101G

 

[Soapy]

so we can take this as you don't know God personal name ..... "JESUS"... thought so.... next.

101G.

Confused poster that you are. I warned you but you don’t listen. May God, YHWH, the only true God, give you truth. It will be hard for you to accept but please do.

Don’t be like Pharoah with Moses: When the truth is spoken do not harden your heart against it.

 

[101G]

Confused poster that you are. I warned you but you don’t listen. May God, YHWH, the only true God, give you truth. It will be hard for you to accept but please do.

Don’t be like Pharoah with Moses: When the truth is spoken do not harden your heart against it.

Oh, I thought you had something to counter what I said, guess not. so, do you want to .... "TRY" and counter what I said? for all these warning of threats are to me as personal opinions, they go right into the TRASH CAN.

NEXT......

101G.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

true, but is not God's Name Yeshua? .... in the OT... "My Salvation"
H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091
and this name is from it's root word H3091,
H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p.
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah)
1. Yahweh-saved.
2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader.
[from H3068 and H3467]
KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua.
Root(s): H3068, H3467
and this Yeshua/Jesus is transliterated from the Greek word G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous').
so, God's name is "JESUS", English, and Hebrew "YESHUA"101G.

At KJV Psalm 83:18 God's name in English is: Jehovah from the Tetragrammaton YHWH
There are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned at Psalm 110.
The KJV LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stands for LORD God Jehovah ( YHWH)
The other Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus and No Tetragrammaton applied.
Both LORD/Lords are Saviors in the sense that LORD God Jehovah sent Lord Christ Jesus to Earth for us.
Jesus (as Commander in Chief - Hail to the chief !) will 'save/deliver/rescue' at the coming time of Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15
The ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the Earth of the wicked.
The wicked will be ' destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[Soapy]

Oh, I thought you had something to counter what I said, guess not. so, do you want to .... "TRY" and counter what I said? for all these warning of threats are to me as personal opinions, they go right into the TRASH CAN.

NEXT......

101G.

[silence is the best counter - like Jesus with Pontius pilate]

 

[Soapy]

At KJV Psalm 83:18 God's name in English is: Jehovah from the Tetragrammaton YHWH
There are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned at Psalm 110.
The KJV LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stands for LORD God Jehovah ( YHWH)
The other Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus and No Tetragrammaton applied.
Both LORD/Lords are Saviors in the sense that LORD God Jehovah sent Lord Christ Jesus to Earth for us.
Jesus (as Commander in Chief - Hail to the chief !) will 'save/deliver/rescue' at the coming time of Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15
The ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the Earth of the wicked.
The wicked will be ' destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22

All good except the ‘… to earth for us.’

Jesus was sent AFTER he was anointed with YHWH’s Spirit and tempted in the wilderness.
Luke 4:18 & 21 tells it like it is:

• “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, …”
• “He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

So you see, Jesus announced his sending after proclaiming himself in the synagogue. And notice the words of Jesus as regards being ‘Sent into the World’:

• “As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.” (John 17:18)

You will, of course, realise that the SENDING of the Apostles came AFTER they were ANOINTED with the Spirit of God at Pentecost … ‘As you filled me with your Spirit (anointed me - sanctified me - set me apart) and sent me to face adversity and sin, you have anointed them (sanctified them) and sent them into the world (to face adversity and sin)!’

 

[Soapy]

In the Septuagint, what is WRITTEN is kyrios. So the Jewish tradition of substitution predates Christianity and Trinitarianism. Thus, it cannot be DUE to trinitarianism, which was your original claim. Would you like to walk it back?

Anyone can write an illegal document and try to proclaim it as truth… Is the Septuagint not a Helenised version of the Torah?

Was it Alexander the Great who demanded even the strict Jews to change their belief in truth to comply with what he thought should be the right way of thinking?

Have the Jews now abandoned the Septuagint?

If yes, was it before or after the rise of trinitarianism?

Wow… You actually might have discovered the source of trinitarianism… fantastic!!!

 

[101G]

At KJV Psalm 83:18 God's name in English is: Jehovah from the Tetragrammaton YHWH
There are two (2) LORD/Lords mentioned at Psalm 110.
The KJV LORD in ALL Upper-Case letters stands for LORD God Jehovah ( YHWH)
The other Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus and No Tetragrammaton applied.

let's see if this is true. Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
NOW THIS, same chapter, Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." THIS IS THE SAME "Lord" AT HIS RIGHT IN VERSE 1.

Lord:
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

emphatic form of H113? which is Lord in verse 1, lets see what that definition ststes,
Lord from verse 1. H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.

Now, do you know the difference between the two "Lord" in verse 1 and 5? and the "LORD", all cap in verse 1?

pay attention to the second definition, 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).

(smile).......... you cannot miss it.

101G.

 

[101G]

[silence is the best counter - like Jesus with Pontius pilate]

Just as the Lord Jersus said, ....... "you say".... (smile)..... YIKES!.

101G.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Anyone can write an illegal document and try to proclaim it as truth… Is the Septuagint not a Helenised version of the Torah?

Was it Alexander the Great who demanded even the strict Jews to change their belief in truth to comply with what he thought should be the right way of thinking?

Have the Jews now abandoned the Septuagint?

If yes, was it before or after the rise of trinitarianism?

Wow… You actually might have discovered the source of trinitarianism… fantastic!!!

There is nothing illegal about the Septuagint. It is simply a translation (and not a very good one). Translations are always inferior to the text in the original Hebrew, but they still are very useful, very helpful things.

I do not use the Septuagint, since I am not a Greek speaker. I would hope, given the poor quality of the Septuagint, that Greek speaking Jews would now have a better translation to use.

Not sure what Alexander the great has to do with anything.

 

[Soapy]

There is nothing illegal about the Septuagint. It is simply a translation (and not a very good one). Translations are always inferior to the text in the original Hebrew, but they still are very useful, very helpful things.

I do not use the Septuagint, since I am not a Greek speaker. I would hope, given the poor quality of the Septuagint, that Greek speaking Jews would now have a better translation to use.

Not sure what Alexander the great has to do with anything.

I don’t understand how you are upholding ‘a not very good’ translation of the most holiest set of text in the whole world, written as the Godly guide book for the salvation of mankind. Who would choose to accept a poorly written math book to teach their children, a not very good translation of a map that is used to guide readers over a treacherous piece of land, an adulterated Hebrew to English language translator!

Are not errors, deceptions, misguidance, misunderstandings, not the result of such?

It’s a good thing that the Septuagint has not been foisted upon the Christian society else how would it be disputed as falsely translated leading to trinity being indisputably declared as truth - that Jesus is YAHWEH, like many say today, but thankfully we can declare that claim as false teaching.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It’s a good thing that the Septuagint has not been foisted upon the Christian society else how would it be disputed as falsely translated leading to trinity being indisputably declared as truth - that Jesus is YAHWEH, like many say today, but thankfully we can declare that claim as false teaching.

Actually, the Septuagint was THE one and only canon that the Christian church used for centuries.

 

[Soapy]

Actually, the Septuagint was THE one and only canon that the Christian church used for centuries.

So we are slowly walking our way round to the distorted views of Trinitarianism.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So we are slowly walking our way round to the distorted views of Trinitarianism.

Soapy, as a Jew, I hate the doctrine of Trinitarianism. But Trinitarianism is not somehow "behind" the tradition of substituting LORD for YHWH.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

let's see if this is true. Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
NOW THIS, same chapter, Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." THIS IS THE SAME "Lord" AT HIS RIGHT IN VERSE 1.
Lord:
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113
emphatic form of H113? which is Lord in verse 1, lets see what that definition ststes,
Lord from verse 1. H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.
Now, do you know the difference between the two "Lord" in verse 1 and 5? and the "LORD", all cap in verse 1?pay attention to the second definition, 2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
(smile).......... you cannot miss it.101G.

Yes, LORD God (Psalm 110) is where the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) appears for Yahweh and in English Jehovah at KJV Psalm 83:18
The other Lord ( lower-case letters ) stands for Lord Jesus and No Tetragrammaton applied to Lord Jesus.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Actually, the Septuagint was THE one and only canon that the Christian church used for centuries.

Copies, copies, copies. God had even the kings make copies of His Word.
That way if some were destroyed others would remain.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, LORD God (Psalm 110) is where the Tetragrammaton (YHWH) appears for Yahweh and in English Jehovah at KJV Psalm 83:18
The other Lord ( lower-case letters ) stands for Lord Jesus and No Tetragrammaton applied to Lord Jesus.

You are correct that the LORD in all caps is a substitution for the yad hey vav hey in hebrew. However, the lord in question (small l) is David, not the messiah. Common Christian error.