Why do trinitarian ideologists say that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

[pearl]

Peace to Yahweh's people ? ( Peace to Zion Yahweh's people

Composers of liturgical hymns and songs which were affected created alternate texts so that familiar songs could remain usable in light of the directives.

 

[pearl]

The translators are simply following in the Jewish tradition of showing respect for the divine name.

Put simply, this is the exact reason for the Church forbidding the use in its Liturgy.
The directives provide the Church with "an opportunity to offer catechesis for the faithful as an encouragement to show reverence for the Name of God in daily life, emphasizing the power of language as an act of devotion and worship,"
This directive provides the opportunity to appreciate the unbroken Jewish practice in showing reverence for the Divine Name. The directives from the Congregation help the faithful to understand better that tradition.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........................ This directive provides the opportunity to appreciate the unbroken Jewish practice in showing reverence for the Divine Name. The directives from the Congregation help the faithful to understand better that tradition.

Understand better (the unbroken Jewish practice) that tradition ( Matt. 15:8-9; Mark 7:7 ; Isaiah 29:13 )
The unbroken Jewish practice/tradition is what Jesus warned against in the 23rd chapter of Matthew by his pronouncing many 'woes' against them.
They had many oral traditions outside of Scripture but just taught them as being Scripture. (their tradition rated above written Law )
The root of Not pronouncing God's name is based in 'un-faithful Jewish practice', and not as recorded at Ezekiel 36:23.
When un-faithful Jews mixed with the Greeks they adopted Greek Culture, Greek Philosophies over Scripture.
Jesus did Not teach that God's name was too holy to use - ( Hallowed be thy name..... )
Rather, Jesus made God's name his first priority in the model Our Father prayer.
Not being impersonal by using titles like Lord or God.
In Jesus' Lord's Prayer found in John chapter 17 in verse 6 Jesus says he manifested God's name.
Further down at John 17:26 Jesus says he made known God's name and will make it known.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The unbroken Jewish practice/tradition is what Jesus warned against in the 23rd chapter of Matthew by his pronouncing many 'woes' against them.

I'm familiar with the seven woes, but honestly, Jesus was railing against hypocrisy, not tradition. Indeed Matthew 23 is THE chapter where Jesus most clearly teaches that Jews should follow oral Torah. In verses 1-3 he tells his followers that the Pharisees have the authority of Moses and to "do and observe ALL they teach"--that would have to include Oral Torah. Later in the chapter in verse 23, Jesus instructs the Pharisees to first keep the spirit of the law, and THEN ALSO keep oral Torah (the spice tax).

 

[Soapy]

This is bizarre. Do you not understand that the Septuagint is a WRITTEN translation? The substitution is done in the WRITTEN text.

Is it a hard thing for you to answer the question rather than sidestepping it. Sidestepping it smacks of ‘I don’t have the information you asked for!’

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Is it a hard thing for you to answer the question rather than sidestepping it. Sidestepping it smacks of ‘I don’t have the information you asked for!’

I'm not interested in answering any questions. I'm only interested in making one point, which is that you are mistaken when you say that Jews did not subsitute Lord when translating.

 

[Soapy]

I'm not interested in answering any questions. I'm only interested in making one point, which is that you are mistaken when you say that Jews did not subsitute Lord when translating.

That’s not what I was asking or saying.

VOCAL substitution is not the same as WRITTEN substitution:

• When READING from the Torah, Jews would refrain from UTTERING the name of God. Instead they substituted the name by saying ‘Kyrios’ or ‘El Shadai’, or similar

‘YHWH’ is WRITTEN… but SPOKEN as ‘Kyrios…..’

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That’s not what I was asking or saying.

VOCAL substitution is not the same as WRITTEN substitution:

• When READING from the Torah, Jews would refrain from UTTERING the name of God. Instead they substituted the name by saying ‘Kyrios’ or ‘El Shadai’, or similar

‘YHWH’ is WRITTEN… but SPOKEN as ‘Kyrios…..’

In the Septuagint, what is WRITTEN is kyrios. So the Jewish tradition of substitution predates Christianity and Trinitarianism. Thus, it cannot be DUE to trinitarianism, which was your original claim. Would you like to walk it back?

 

[pearl]

The unbroken Jewish practice/tradition is what Jesus warned against in the 23rd chapter of Matthew by his pronouncing many 'woes' against them.

No, you totally do not, or refuse to, understand or take passage within context, by omitting the verse before the 'woes'. Jesus is not
warning against his own tradition, but the hypocrisy and self-righteous behavior. Jesus instructs his listeners that the Pharisees hold the 'seat' 'chair' of Moses, do what they say, Not what they do. Jesus' teaching would have been closer to that of the Pharisee than other groups.

 

[Soapy]

In the Septuagint, what is WRITTEN is kyrios. So the Jewish tradition of substitution predates Christianity and Trinitarianism. Thus, it cannot be DUE to trinitarianism, which was your original claim. Would you like to walk it back?

Is the Septuagint translation in widespread use today?

Which English Bible translation uses the Septuagint as its basis?

Is the Septuagint a Jewish authorised translation (Hellenistic Jewish beliefs do not count as authorised Jew or Christian faiths!)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Is the Septuagint translation in widespread use today?

Which English Bible translation uses the Septuagint as its basis?

Is the Septuagint a Jewish authorised translation (Hellenistic Jewish beliefs do not count as authorised Jew or Christian faiths!)

Yes. The Orthodox chruch uses the Septuagint.

Jews don't have "authorized" translations. But we do have translations. For Jews, no translation is the Torah -- only the Hebrew text is the Torah. But that doesn't mean we don't make use of translations.

 

[Soapy]

Yes. The Orthodox chruch uses the Septuagint.

Jews don't have "authorized" translations. But we do have translations. For Jews, no translation is the Torah -- only the Hebrew text is the Torah. But that doesn't mean we don't make use of translations.

So if you chose to disrespect the eternal name of the everlasting God by refusing to acknowledge that name, to destroy that name from your liturgical literature such that it is lost: unread, unspoken… how is such a name, ‘eternal’ to those whom God gave His name to?

I mean, at least WRITE the holy name … but to REPLACE IT… Satan’s work!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So if you chose to disrespect the eternal name of the everlasting God by refusing to acknowledge that name, to destroy that name from your liturgical literature such that it is lost: unread, unspoken… how is such a name, ‘eternal’ to those whom God gave His name to?

I mean, at least WRITE the holy name … but to REPLACE IT… Satan’s work!

This is just baloney. The whole purpose of the substitution is respect. If you can't understand that, then I can't help you. Moving on...

 

[Soapy]

This is just baloney. The whole purpose of the substitution is respect. If you can't understand that, then I can't help you. Moving on...

You really think that it is RESPECT to NOT use someone’s name when it is a situation of the greatest adulation:

• ‘This is my name for all eternity’

But you think it is NOT WORTHY of even WRITING IT?

Wow, I think you are misappropriating the word ‘Respect’… confusing it with some other word?

You do know WHY the Jews abandoned the UTTERING of the greatest and holiest of names, don’t you?

And note that it is the SPEAKING - the SPOKEN UTTERANCE of the name - that is the problem to the Jews. Why? Because they FEARED MISUSING IT.

The Jews used to swear oaths by the sacred name… make a promise to another person… and it stood as credit for payment or delivery.
But, sooner and later, some reneged on their word rubber stamped by the name of God, which brought the name of God into disrepute.

And so, fearing punishment, real or imagined, it was decided that this practice must stop to avoid the consequences. But it didn’t stop there… it grew into the idea that ANY UTTERANCE of the name of God C O U L D result in a misuse… like how we flippantly say, today: ‘God, I feel like smacking you one!’ (Of course, ‘God’ is a title, but I’m not going to say something blasphemous using the name of God! The same misuse goes for Jesus Christ but then Jesus Christ - of simply, ‘Jesus [exclamation]’ is not a sin since Jesus is not YHWH GOD).

So, again, I ask the question. “Why is it regarded as a sin to even WRITE the name of God - a sin to write ‘YHWH’ in a holy book in which YHWH TELLS US HIS NAME?”

You absolutely do not see that the reluctance to even write the name, ‘YHWH’, let alone pronounce it EVEN IF IT IS IN the HOLIEST OF SITUATIONS.. is exactly what Satan wants to happen… destroy the name of God!!

And, believe me or not, I have never come across a Christian sect so hardened to refusal to recognise the name of God, calling upon TITLES OF GOD instead, as with trinitarian believers. And when they have used the name of God they attribute it also to Jesus Christ in the Old Testament (but somehow backpedaling when it comes to the spirit of God… !) and attaching it to that verse in the New Testament wherein baptism is in one name only for the three persons of god in trinity… yet the name used in practice is only ever ‘Jesus’!!

So you see, the disuse because of possible misuse has led to non-use!! In fact, the non-use has led to the pernicious and insidious denial that God most high even has a name!

Now THAT is the ultimate disrespect! How is a name to be eternal if it does not exist?

Already, as in many Christian holy day ceremonies, it s to be observed that the name of God is not used - He is simply referred to as ‘The Lord’… and even if the expression is meant to say the ‘LORD’, there is no distinction in the pronunciation, and therefore the confusion may result in something like:

• ‘LORD’, you who made all things, and you, Lord, who is the owner and sustained of all things who gave his life for us mere mortals, we glorify your name!

Now, answer these questions given the context above:

• Explicitly, whose name is glorified?
• Who gave his life did the sins of man?
• Who made all things?

 

[101G]

Jesus did Not teach that God's name was too holy to use - ( Hallowed be thy name..... )

true, but is not God's Name Yeshua? .... in the OT... "My Salvation"
H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091

and this name is from it's root word H3091,
H3091 יְהוֹשׁוּעַ YhowShuw`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah) n/p.
יְהוֹשֻׁעַ YhowShu`a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah)
1. Yahweh-saved.
2. Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader.
[from H3068 and H3467]
KJV: Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua.
Root(s): H3068, H3467

and this Yeshua/Jesus is transliterated from the Greek word G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (yee-sous').

so, God's name is "JESUS", English, and Hebrew "YESHUA"

101G.

 

[101G]

Now, answer these questions given the context above:

• Explicitly, whose name is glorified?
• Who gave his life did the sins of man?
• Who made all things?

• Explicitly, whose name is glorified? Answer, "JESUS", the Ordinal First, the Father, who is also the Ordinal Last, the Son.
• Who gave his life for the sins of man? answer, JESUS, the Ordinal Last, the Son. and NOT, Jesus the Ordinal First, the Father.
• Who made all things? "JESUS", the Ordinal First, the Father, and NOT Jesus, the Ordinal Last the Son.

So, again, I ask the question. “Why is it regarded as a sin to even WRITE the name of God - a sin to write ‘YHWH’ in a holy book in which YHWH TELLS US HIS NAME?”

"YHWH" is "WHAT" he is in Name, and NOT "WHO" he is in name. YHWH or I Am is a verb, and not a NOUN

Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?" Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

I AM THAT I AM or H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. .......... it's a verb and not a NOUN.
1. to exist.
2. to be or become.
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).
[a primitive root]
KJV: beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.
Compare: H1933

verbs are NOT personal Name, as to "WHO" they are in name,.

101G.

 

[Soapy]

• Explicitly, whose name is glorified? Answer, "JESUS", the Ordinal First, the Father, who is also the Ordinal Last, the Son.
• Who gave his life for the sins of man? answer, JESUS, the Ordinal Last, the Son. and NOT, Jesus the Ordinal First, the Father.
• Who made all things? "JESUS", the Ordinal First, the Father, and NOT Jesus, the Ordinal Last the Son.

"YHWH" is "WHAT" he is in Name, and NOT "WHO" he is in name. YHWH or I Am is a verb, and not a NOUN

Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?" Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

I AM THAT I AM or H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. .......... it's a verb and not a NOUN.
1. to exist.
2. to be or become.
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).
[a primitive root]
KJV: beacon, X altogether, be(-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-)self, require, X use.
Compare: H1933

verbs are NOT personal Name, as to "WHO" they are in name,.

101G.

• “Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?" Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH hath sent me unto you."

Read that alongside this:

• “And I tell you that you are [rock], and on this [rock] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Matthew 16:18)

Context, context, context…

Why do you translate ‘YHWH’ to say, ‘I Am’ in Exodus 3:13, but not anywhere else in scriptures?

Why is it not translated at, say, Isa 41:13:

• “For I am Yahweh your God, who strongly takes hold of your right hand, Who says to you, ‘Do not fear, I will help you.’
• “For I am I Am your God, who strongly takes hold of your right hand, Who says to you, ‘Do not fear, I will help you.’

Separate the NAME from the MEANING OF THE NAME.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

true, but is not God's Name Yeshua? ..

No.

 

[101G]

• “Exodus 3:13 "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?" Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH hath sent me unto you."

Read that alongside this:

• “And I tell you that you are [rock], and on this [rock] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Matthew 16:18)

Context, context, context…

GINOLJC, to all.
ERROR, ERROR, ERROR. yes, U need to use context. "WHAT" is his name vs "WHO" he is in Name. EXAMPLE. if I asked you "WHAT" is the First woman name, if you say "Eve" you would be incorrect. because that is not "WHAT" her name is. let's see in scripture "WHAT" the first woman name is. Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." BINGO, her name is ADAM, because that's "WHAT" she is.... mankind.

now, if I would have asked, "WHO" is the FRIST Woman in Name, then the correct answer would be "EVE", because "EVE" identifies "WHO" she is in NAME vs "WHAT" she is in NAME. understand NOW?

so, let's go back to Exodus 3:13 and see what Moses ASKED God in CONTEX. "And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?" and God gave Moses just what he asked.... "WHAT" is his name..... (smile)... "I AM". yes, a VERB to describe "WHAT" he is in NAME. I AM KING, I AM SAVIOUR, I AM, Creator, I AM, Redeemer..... ect..... well King, Saviour, Creator, and Redeemer, are not his Personal Name. LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh Dear.

now listen up for the TRUTH, concerning God name as to "WHO" he is in NAME. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

first thing, they didn't KNOW God personal name before, because Isaiah comes after Exodus. for if "I AM"/YHWH was his name as to WHO he is then there would be no reason for Isaiah 52:6 here. so, that right there should, by COMMON SENSE, let oner know that God personal name as to WHO he is was not KNOWN then in Exodus 3:13. but Isaiah 52:6 said God's people ... SHALL ..... which is future tense..... KNOW his name. because he said the way we will KNOW, is when he speaks his Name as to "WHO" he is in PERSON.. " they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I.". I AM he? I AM..... he? well let's see that day. John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." there it is plain as DAY..... "I AM he". this is the Lord Jesus speaking..... now one more to seal the deal. John 8:57 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?" John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

how plain can one get? now for one next mistake.

• “And I tell you that you are [rock], and on this [rock] I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (Matthew 16:18)

Context, context, context

yes, Context, context, context. Listen up and LEARN, some say Peter name could be interpreted as stone, or rock, yes, but only a piece. Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Peter: G4074 Πέτρος Petros (pe'-tros) n/p.
1. a (piece of) rock.
2. as a name, Petrus, an apostle.
{larger than G3037}
[apparently a primary word]
KJV: Peter, rock

my source for this definition, Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
let's see who is the ROCK, and STONE where there is no need to interpret. LISTEN, and LEARN.
Isaiah 8:13 "Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread." Isaiah 8:14 "And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem." God is that "ROCK", who is JESUS. now, if that's not clear enough for you, TWO more. 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." NOW, one's last scripture, Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

GOD, the Lord Jesus is the "ROCK", so one can drop that Peter NONSENSE as the ROCK.

Why do you translate ‘YHWH’ to say, ‘I Am’ in Exodus 3:13, but not anywhere else in scriptures?

Why is it not translated at, say, Isa 41:13:

• “For I am Yahweh your God, who strongly takes hold of your right hand, Who says to you, ‘Do not fear, I will help you.’
• “For I am I Am your God, who strongly takes hold of your right hand, Who says to you, ‘Do not fear, I will help you.’

Separate the NAME from the MEANING OF THE NAME.

for "Yahweh", Hebrew, and Jehovah English, are false name. can we prove this from the bible itself? YES, FROM the BIBLE. to all, LISTEN, and LEARN. Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
God said, Abraham did not know him, God, by the Name, "I AM"/YHWH..... translated as JEHOVAH, or YAHWEH . well question, why then was the name JEHOVAH/"I AM"/YHWH/YAHWEH in Abraham mouth then? LISTEN ..... Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."

well now, Huston. we have a problem..... no correction, all those who believe that God name is "JEHOVAH/"I AM"/YHWH/"YAHWEH", they have a problem.

101G knows the answer here, but 101G would like to hear other explain why God .... suppose name is in Abraham mouth, when God said Abraham didn't know him by that name...... (smile)......... so do we have a contradiction in the bible? 101G say no. or is God lying, 101G say, God forbid NO!. is Abraham lying, not the Friend of God, NO. so what gives? .... (Smile). as said, I would love to hear other explanation. I just can't wait to hear other explain this.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

No.

and? ...... why Not? care to explain why not..... (smile).

we suggest you read 101G's post above.

101G.