Why do trinitarian ideologists say that Jesus Christ is YHWH?

[pearl]

The Catholic Church has forbidden pronouncing 'Yahweh' in its Liturgy.
3. Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds. Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition from the beginning that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.

Library : Directives on the Use of 'Yahweh' in the Liturgy

Directives on the Use of 'Yahweh' in the Liturgy The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Disciplineof the Sacraments issued these directives to bishops' conferences worldwide concerning the use of the term

www.catholicculture.org

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It takes quite a bit of ‘Trying to walk a middle line’ to have to resort to such an obscure journal in order to find supporting text.

However, and despite a glaring typo (‘YHHW’ ??) and strangely confusing elements, there was a selection that I found hit the mark directly:

• “Since the total meaning conveyed by YHWH is ‘YHWH the name of the God of Israel’, it would be inaccurate and misleading to render it as a title such as ‘Lord’. Not only would the name itself be lost, but a new meaning with connotations of lordship would be introduced. This is never part of the complete meaning of YHWH.
  Most English Bibles use this option though as the result of long tradition. An attempt is made to distinguish it from the Hebrew word 'adonay, which actually means ‘lord’, by writing the latter with lowercase letters (Lord), while writing the name YHWH with small caps (LORD). The reader is supposed to realize that LORD represents the name of God, while Lord represents 'adonay. I don’t think this method of distinguishing between two different words would be acceptable anywhere else in translation.”

I don’t know how ‘Small Caps’, ‘Large Caps’, ‘Adonai’, and ‘Kurios’ can be allowed to become the central aspect of debate in such a profound religious literature.

I repeat that if is my conjecture that this is due to trinitarian influence wherein there was and still is a need to attempt to claim that Jesus is GOD and goes by the name ‘YHWH’ (oh, you highly likely won’t hear it directly but it is their desire since if would then justify their fallacy of a trinity despite the fact that there is no third ‘person’ called ‘YHWH’ (nor any of the ‘substitutes’) as the spirit of God. the pure fact that their “third person” is not ever called ‘Lord’ doesn’t occur to them nor even that they claim the ‘three’ are absolutely EQUAL but are seen by them in order of power, authority, and RANK!! If this isn’t paganism them I don’t know what is or could else be!

I have already documented for you that Jews already had the tradition of substituting Lord for YHWH BEFORE Christianity. I shouldn't need to mention that no one believed in any Trinity until Christianity. Thus, I have successfully shown to you that this tradition has nothing to do with Trinitarianism.

I don't know why you are still arguing with me, but at any rate, I've made my point and now I'm going to move on. Be well.

 

[Soapy]

The Catholic Church has forbidden pronouncing 'Yahweh' in its Liturgy.
3. Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds. Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition from the beginning that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.

Library : Directives on the Use of 'Yahweh' in the Liturgy

Directives on the Use of 'Yahweh' in the Liturgy The Congregation for Divine Worship and the Disciplineof the Sacraments issued these directives to bishops' conferences worldwide concerning the use of the term

www.catholicculture.org

Interesting… Who forbade the Catholic church from pronouncing the name of God?

God gave His name for all eternity. Satan is seeking to destroy that name and Christianity is doing Satan’s deed.

As an unwritten rule, Christianity won’t even WRITE the name of God. Trinitarians even vilify JW because JW translated ‘YHWH’ and speak the name, ‘Jehovah’ (one interpretation of ‘YHWH’).

God did not give the light of His name for mankind to hide it under a bushel. The only stipulation God gave was that His name must not be taken in vain!

And how much in vain can it be to not even pronounce it - Pronouncing the Name of God is not a sin, it’s only misusing it, and how is it misusing the name of God by simply reading it or speaking it even in valid scriptural verses?

 

[Soapy]

I have already documented for you that Jews already had the tradition of substituting Lord for YHWH BEFORE Christianity. I shouldn't need to mention that no one believed in any Trinity until Christianity. Thus, I have successfully shown to you that this tradition has nothing to do with Trinitarianism.

I don't know why you are still arguing with me, but at any rate, I've made my point and now I'm going to move on. Be well.

The Jews only ‘replaced’ the name of God ‘VOCALLY’ as ‘Adonai’.

I am referring to the WRITTEN Bible scriptures which wrote God’s name as ‘LORD’!

As one website states:

• “nearly 7,000 times the most important name of all is replaced with a another word that man has chosen.“

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Jews only ‘replaced’ the name of God ‘VOCALLY’ as ‘Adonai’.

I am referring to the WRITTEN Bible scriptures which wrote God’s name as ‘LORD’!

As one website states:

• “nearly 7,000 times the most important name of all is replaced with a another word that man has chosen.“

You must have missed my post where I showed how Lord was substituted by the Jews who translated teh Septuagint.

 

[Soapy]

You must have missed my post where I showed how Lord was substituted by the Jews who translated teh Septuagint.

Ok, just post back the line or passage that says so. My take on it was that they did so ONLY VOCALLY - which means they still WROTE IT.

I’m willing to concede if you can show categorically what you claim.

Here’s my take illustrated from a webpage:

• “As Judaism became a universal religion through its proselytizing in the Greco-Roman world,… the divine name was increasingly regarded as too sacred to be uttered; it was thus replaced vocally in the synagogue ritual by the Hebrew word Adonai (“My Lord”), which was translated as Kyrios (“Lord”) in the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament.”

Which Bible version uses the Septuagint as its basis for the English? Which Bible uses ‘Lord’ in place of ‘YHWH’ in the Old Testament?

AND… would it not be absolutely blasphemous to obscure the everlasting name of God (‘YHWH’) by a lesser powered title (‘Lord’).

Doesn’t this then cause confusion with Jesus, who is also called, ‘Lord’? Just what Trinitarians desire!!!?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Ok, just post back the line or passage that says so. My take on it was that they did so ONLY VOCALLY - which means they still WROTE IT.

This is bizarre. Do you not understand that the Septuagint is a WRITTEN translation? The substitution is done in the WRITTEN text.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The tradition of substituting Lord for YHWH was already in place among Jews before Chrisitanity existed. "When the Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek (the Septuagint), YHWH was represented by the Greek word κυριος, meaning lord, still respecting the fact that the name itself was considered too holy to be pronounced." https://www.sil.org/system/files/re...1165619732394342641225818/siljot2005_1_03.pdf

I'd like to take the liberty to add to the ^ above ^ that it was among ' Un-faithful Jews' before Christianity existed.
When those 'Un-faithful Jews' began mixing with Greek philosophies that contributed to superstition about using God's personal name.
On the other hand, Jesus used God's name and will use it - John 17:6; John 17:26
Jesus never instructed that Titles such as Lord or God be hallowed, but rather God's name be hallowed ( sacred / sanctified )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is all time, that's why we have prophecy for us to see what God is seeing, or know.101G.

To me what God is seeing is what Jesus lets us know as described in Matthew chapter 24 Luke chapter 21 and Mark chapter 13
There was a 'minor' fulfillment in the year 70 when God used the Roman armies to destroy un-faithful Jerusalem.
There is a coming MAJOR fulfillment coming as described at 1st Thess. 5:2-3.
When the powers in charge will be saying, " Peace and Security....." that rosy saying will be to lead people down that Primrose Path.
God knows that He will have Jesus step in to rid the world of wickedness - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15; Rev. 11:18 B

 

[URAVIP2ME]

................., no one so far has tried to prove their case using trinitarian literature such as the Athanasian creed.

Yes, No trying to prove by the Athanasian Creed at www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't think the substitution of LORD has anything to do with Trinitarianism. The translators are simply following in the Jewish tradition of showing respect for the divine name.

Is it really respect to just use LORD as to substitute for ' hallowed be thy name ' ?
Both LORD/Lord and God are titles and Not God's personal name ( YHWH Tetragrammaton )
Jewish tradition is tradition or Jewish custom outside of Scripture but Not Scripture.- Matt. 15:9
Jesus asked us to pray that God's name ( Not any title ) be hallowed ( name held as sacred / sanctified )
Jesus used God's name - John 17:6 - and Jesus will have God's name declared - John 17:26

 

[101G]

To me what God is seeing is what Jesus lets us know as described in Matthew chapter 24 Luke chapter 21 and Mark chapter 13

ok,

There is a coming MAJOR fulfillment coming as described at 1st Thess. 5:2-3.

yes, but no one knows the exact time and date. for it's clear only the Father knows.

101G

 

[101G]

Both LORD/Lord and God are titles and Not God's personal name ( YHWH Tetragrammaton )

100% correct. titles are not personal names. thanks.

101G.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Catholic Church has forbidden pronouncing 'Yahweh' in its Liturgy.
3. Avoiding pronouncing the Tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the church has therefore its own grounds. Apart from a motive of a purely philological order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the church's tradition from the beginning that the sacred Tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated..........................

What ever happened to the Catholic song at Mass about: Peace to Yahweh's people ? ( Peace to Zion Yahweh's people ? )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

yes, but no one knows the exact time and date. for it's clear only the Father knows.101G

Good point about only the Father, so for the most part it is calculations or guesses, and those calculations or guesses does Not make the Bible as wrong just the calculations or guesses as wrong.
We do know when Spring is here that Summer is soon to follow.
Jesus was making the connection that the global events cited in Matt 24; Mark 13; Luke 21:11 is like Spring with Summer being close by.
- Matthew 24: 32-33
We are at the time of Rev. 6:8, so the time, the season, is now ripe, very ripe for the soon Harvest Time of separation of Matt. 25:31-34,37

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'd like to take the liberty to add to the ^ above ^ that it was among ' Un-faithful Jews' before Christianity existed.
When those 'Un-faithful Jews' began mixing with Greek philosophies that contributed to superstition about using God's personal name.
On the other hand, Jesus used God's name and will use it - John 17:6; John 17:26
Jesus never instructed that Titles such as Lord or God be hallowed, but rather God's name be hallowed ( sacred / sanctified )

all irrelevant. the point was that the fact that Lord is substituted in WRITTEN texts disproves you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Is it really respect to just use LORD as to substitute for ' hallowed be thy name ' ?
Both LORD/Lord and God are titles and Not God's personal name ( YHWH Tetragrammaton )
Jewish tradition is tradition or Jewish custom outside of Scripture but Not Scripture.- Matt. 15:9
Jesus asked us to pray that God's name ( Not any title ) be hallowed ( name held as sacred / sanctified )
Jesus used God's name - John 17:6 - and Jesus will have God's name declared - John 17:26

The whole purpose of the substitution is to show respect for the holiness of God's name.
BTW, really not interested in anything Jesus said.

 

[101G]

Good point about only the Father, so for the most part it is calculations or guesses, and those calculations or guesses does Not make the Bible as wrong just the calculations or guesses as wrong.
We do know when Spring is here that Summer is soon to follow.
Jesus was making the connection that the global events cited in Matt 24; Mark 13; Luke 21:11 is like Spring with Summer being close by.
- Matthew 24: 32-33
We are at the time of Rev. 6:8, so the time, the season, is now ripe, very ripe for the soon Harvest Time of separation of Matt. 25:31-34,37

You are Correct again, onny the times and seasons. then the sign of the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:" Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Matthew 24:31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

be blessed.

101G

 

[Soapy]

The whole purpose of the substitution is to show respect for the holiness of God's name.
BTW, really not interested in anything Jesus said.

No no no!!

It is DISRESPECTFUL NOT to use the name of God.

It is DISRESPECTFUL to ABUSE or DISHONOUR the name of God…

Someone who is speaking or writing in full respect and honour would not fear to abuse or disrespect the make of God.

The Jew stopped pronouncing the name of PUT OF FEAR that their writing or speech would be blasphemous against God… why would they think do if they WERE writing and speaking RESPECTFULLY about God?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No no no!!

It is DISRESPECTFUL NOT to use the name of God.

Not in Israelite culture. In Israelite culture, the reverse is true.