mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
You do understand how science is based on methodological naturalism and how come it is methodological?
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Why Do You Reject Jesus?
- Thread starter Jimmy
- Start date
You do understand how science is based on methodological naturalism and how come it is methodological?
Holy carp this is mind bending hoops one needs to jump through to maintain belief and contians a number of logical violations - expecially when in context of the subject matter. "IF" there is only one God" is the first failed assumption .. we are talking about a God in the Bible .. and there are many Gods in the Bible .. so the question remains if you say "I believe in a God in the Bible" .. which one are you talking about ... Lord YHWH, Lord Jealous, Asherah, Marduk, Ha-Dad, Ha Satan .. and/or if you do not know the name one needs at least a descriptor to identify which God we are talking about .. God of Noah .. God of Abraham .. God of Moses .. God of the Israelites
bib
"I Believe this is the case" - You can believe there is only one God .. but this is different than belief there is only one God in the Bible .. the first might be true but the Second is False .. as it has nothing to do with your belief how many Gods there are in the Bible .. and everything to do with the belief of the folks in the story... for example .. regardless of what you think about the Gods of the Bible ... every single Israelite that ever lived or died - "in general" believed in many Gods.
"The God of Jesus" -- OH .. well good -- we have an identifier but -- how do you know which God of the OT this is if you don't have a name or identifier .. God of Abraham - God of the Moabites - God of the Israelites .. YHWH - Chemosh - ISIS ?
and most importantly -- and biggest logical flaw - is that there is no point in belief of a God .. in a biblical sense .. if one does not know "The Word" .. of that God .. the Commands by which one may be put right with that God ... different God -- different commands .. and sorry in case you did not get "The folks who wrote the book believed in many Gods" so you can't say all the commands in the bible are from this one God .. as the folks who wrote the book did not believe that "AND" 1) Jesus does not follow some of the commands from "The God" ... of the Bible.. == Jesus does not follow this God .. as "THe Word" IS GOD .. in a very literal sense. 2) If Jesus doesn't follow one of the Gods of the Bible then which one does he follow ? and last
3) how do you follow the word of God -- assuming one God in the case of a contradiction. .. God says go Left - God says Go Right ? .. Which is "The Will of the Father" ? Do we A) Kill the child for the sin of the Parent ... or B) do not kill the child for the sin of the Parent - Let each be punished according to his own sin (the latter instruction from God being codified by every Nation on the Planet in the Rule of Law).
There is no way to know which direction puts one right with God .. no way to navigagte away from the gates of Hell on such flawed foundation .. as discussed by Lord Jesus Matt 7:21 to end -- "Only the one who does the will of the Father" makes it through the pearly gates ..
Since you do not know the will of "The Father" if you do not know which commands are from this God .. "Hallowed be thy name" or from the hand of man.. under the influence of Ha Satan ?
The reason the early redactors did not remove some of these glaring contradictions .. is that authors and people were reading from the perspective of multiple Gods .. so there was no problem .. different God .. different covenant .. different commands .. It took a long time for "Monotheism" to take hold -- It was never present among the Israelites .. nor even among the Judahites and Benjaminites following the cult of YHWH until the Death of YHWH at the hand of the God Marduk..
When Judaism is formed some 100-200 years after the death of YHWH -- there is still a lengthy period of time before this religion becomes "Monotheist" as we know it.
and we know Jesus chose the will of the Father over his own (bit of a nail on the Trinity coffin in doing so) - I told you that in the post you are responding to .. so why are you repeating this back to me as if it is new information in an effort to deflect from the big problem of Jesus believing himself to have been forsaken by his God.. A God who's name you do not know and whose commands you do not follow .. despite your claim to know and follow this God. A ) Kill the child B) do not kill the child. which God do you choose to follow ?
God sends a 'savior' or Avatar to Earth approximately every 2150 years. Jesus is the latest of these Avatars. So, Jesus is not the only 'lord and savior' and not the only one who saves from eternal death - he is one of quite a few (or instance Krishna, Buddha etc). So I may believe in Jesus but not may accept him as my personal 'lord and savior'.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
That period is approximate. It also depends on precession of the equinoxes - the apparent movement of the sun through the constellations, so any time after the Sun enters Aquarius. I would say any time from now until 2130 is possible. BYW there are some people who believe that Jesus was born in 120 BC.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Why Do You Reject Jesus?
The majority of those who reject Jesus/Yeshua are the Pauline-Christians themselves, please, right?
The majority of those who accept Jesus/Yeshua- as the truthful Israelite Messiah are the Muslims.
Belief in righteous persons like Zoroaster, Moses and (Jesus)Yeshua- a truthful Messenger/Prophet of One G-d is one of the basic six articles of faith in Islam, so the Muslims can never reject (Jesus)Yeshua, or oppose him, right, please?
www.alislam.org
Right?
Regards
The majority of those who reject Jesus/Yeshua are the Pauline-Christians themselves, please, right?
The majority of those who accept Jesus/Yeshua- as the truthful Israelite Messiah are the Muslims.
Belief in righteous persons like Zoroaster, Moses and (Jesus)Yeshua- a truthful Messenger/Prophet of One G-d is one of the basic six articles of faith in Islam, so the Muslims can never reject (Jesus)Yeshua, or oppose him, right, please?
Articles of Faith
Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website
Right?
Regards
HaEmeth
Truth sets free
At first, I thought you were joking when you said: "Jesus never claimed to be a king" when, in fact, as you yourself quoted John 18:36 where Jesus said, "My kingdom" proving, therefore, that Jesus did claim himself to be a king, albeit "not of this world."
And to which you added: "These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it" to which I totally agree.
I got you. What you are saying is that Jesus is still king but "not of this world" - that is, is not a king of a kingdom here on earth.
Of course, Jesus' kingdom is "not of this world" because it is heavenly - but still a kingdom, nonetheless.
Revelation said that the kingdom will be established in heaven after Satan and his demons are thrown down to earth.
'And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, and they did not prevail, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,
“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come" ' - Rev 12:7-10, NAS (New American Standard Bible)
All in fulfillment of the prophecy at Daniel 2:44, NAS: "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever."
That kingdom, although heavenly, still has authority over the earth, as you can glean from the text, because it will crush all the kingdoms on earth. Therefore, it is a kingdom not of this world but over it, meaning, it still exerts its authority over the earth although based in heaven.
That kingdom because it was, for all intents and purposes, God's kingdom set up by the "God of heaven" will be handed back to God once Jesus has eliminated all of his enemies on earth, including death:
"then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death." - 1 Cor 15:24-26, NAS
Matthew 28:18, NAS, clinches the argument when Jesus said:
"And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me."
I rest my case.
“Where, precisely, is "Christianity" since it obviously cannot be identified with the irreconcilably opposed organizations that claim to speak for Christ?”
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The kingdom of Jesus is in heaven so Jesus rules with God in heaven.
Jesus was never commissioned by God to rule in this world or rule over this world, not when he walked the earth and not at any time in the future.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
“The Throne upon which He sat is the Eternal Throne from which Christ reigns for ever, a heavenly throne, not an earthly one, for the things of earth pass away but heavenly things pass not away. He re-interpreted and completed the Law of Moses and fulfilled the Law of the Prophets. His word conquered the East and the West. His Kingdom is everlasting.”
Daniel 2 NASB
44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be [ap]left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45 Just as you saw that a stone was broken off from the mountain without hands, and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place [aq]in the future; so the dream is certain and its interpretation is trustworthy.”
The verse says "the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed." It does not say that is a heavenly kingdom.
There is already a kingdom of God in heaven that can never be destroyed so it does not have to be 'set up.'
What needs to be set up is the kingdom of God on earth.
Jesus asked us to pray for the kingdom of God to come to earth:
Matthew 6 NASB
9 “Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father, who is in heaven,
[d]Hallowed be Your name.
10 [e]Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
[f]On earth as it is in heaven.
There is no reason to believe that the heavenly kingdom will exercise authority over earth. God commissioned the person who was the return of Christ to have the authority to set up the kingdom of God on earth. That kingdom will put an end to all the other kingdoms and it will itself endure forever.
Christians believe that the following verses are about Jesus, but if Jesus was the Son of man, as Jesus claimed to be, the following verses cannot be about the Jesus.
Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I believe that those verses are about Baha'u'llah who was one like Jesus, the return of the Christ promised in the Bible.
"It is clear to all that Christ came from heaven, although apparently He came from the womb of Mary. At the first coming He came from heaven, though apparently from the womb; in the same way, also, at His second coming He will come from heaven, though apparently from the womb. The conditions that are indicated in the Gospel for the second coming of Christ are the same as those that were mentioned for the first coming, as we said before."
Jesus ascended into heaven. Baha’u’llah, one like the son of man, descended from heaven and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Those verses are about an earthly kingdom, not a heavenly kingdom.
Yes, God's kingdom was handed back to God to do with it what was God's Will, as I explained above.
Physical death is not the enemy, spiritual death is the enemy. Physical death on earth will never be abolished because God created the human body to be mortal, not immortal.
Yes indeed. All authority was give by God to Jesus during the Great Commission of Jesus on earth.
The Great Commission
Matthew 28 NASB
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated to them. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some [f]were doubtful. 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 [g]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to [h]follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you [i]always, to the end of the age.”
But at the end of the age Jesus no longer had any authority since Jesus handed the authority back to God..
1 Corinthians 15 NASB
24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to our God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
Jesus also said: "I am with you [i]always, to the end of the age.” That implies that Jesus would no longer be with them after that age ended.
The age that Jesus was referring to was His dispensation, which was never intended by God to last forever.
Dispensation
- the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
- an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
- a divinely appointed order or age:
e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
The Dispensation of Jesus is represented by the New Testament, but I believe that all the previous religious dispensations have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah so the divine ordering of the affairs of the world for the present age is through Baha'u'llah.
So do I.
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Daniel has nothing to do with John .. .. different religion ... different God .. why do you reject the God of Jesus ?
Because I don't know who he is.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Wait... are you saying that Jesus worshiped a different God than Daniel? Or am I missing something here?
You are getting it right .. or very close. We don't know which God Daniel is worshiping .. what we wish to know "different religion" whether we are talking about the authors religious beliefs ~2-300 BC .. when the story is written OR - the religious beliefs at the time of Daniel .. in Nebo's court ? .. I was assuming in my post .. we are talking the religious beliefs in 2-300 BC ..and the God being worshiped .. is then some YHWH fusion monster (more on that later)
Either way .. the religious beliefs and God of Jesus is not YHWH .. and not monotheism.
So who is the God of Jesus ? that is the big question on the one side. Jesus does not follow the religious beliefs "commands" of the YHWH Cult on the other. Different Commands = different God.
The answer to question 1) God of Jesus is The God of Abraham - EL Elyon - El Oliun "God most high, God Supreme". "EL Shaddai" - God most high but something to do with living high up in the mountain .. alusory to Chief God EL said to live in a tent on a high mountain - but also later ascends into the heaven to head up the Divine Council .. as one of his 70 "Sons of God" usurps his position as Chief God on Earth.
YHWH is one of EL Oliun's sons .. an anthropomorphic God who fights the other sons of God for the position of Chief God on Earth .. Psalm 82 is a Church Hymn celebrating YHWH winning that battle .. try the NET Bible and read footnote (c) carefully ... picking out the preferred translation .. and who this "EL" fellow is.
82 1) YHWH stands in[b] the assembly of El;[c] in the midst of the gods[d] he renders judgment.[e]
8) Rise up, O God, and execute judgment on the earth! For you own[q] all the nations.
Now how do we know this is the God of Jesus ? --- Gen 14 "Melchi-Zedek" .. Canaanite Priest King of Jerusalem when Abe Visits .. submits to this priest and they worship the same God together with traditional libation "Bread and Wine"
"Who is Zedek" ? .. The Patron God of Jerusalem "City of Peace" .. at the time .. Zedek a twin God of Justice and Righteousness.
So Watson .. we have "The prince of Peace" and this Patron God Zedek who sits at the Right hand of "The Father" (another epiphet for EL) dispensing Justice and righteousness at the Divine Council.
So .. the God of the Zadokite Priesthood is "EL" High God of Canaanite Pantheon ~ 1800BC in Jerusalem. This Priesthood is still in place in 1000bc when David shows up - The King's name Adoni-Zedek (my god is Zedek) the High Priest at the time is named Zedok.
Rather than slaughter all the "pagan" priests .. David puts Zedok as high priest over Jerusalem .. instead of the Aaronite Priest who's name escapes me but matters not .. Look it up if interested
Zedok is the High Priest who annoints King Solomon .. and King David is a King and Priest of the order of Melchi-Zedek .. Psalm 110.Fast forward 1000 years to the time of Jesus what Priesthood does Jesus belong to ?? is it A) Aaronic-Levitical Priesthood .. the God of this priesthood is YHWH Or B) The Zedokite Priesthood who's God is EL
Good job if you selected B) .. as we are told in Hebrews 6 "Jesus a priest forever in the order of Melchi-Zedek" and the religion of Jesus (the set of commands we are to follow to be put right with the God of Jesus" NOT - Different From- the set of commands representing Lord YHWH and/or Lord Jealous .. and a different covenant with a different God.
Different commands -- different covenant -- different God .. Thats how it works .. and we MUST .. be working from a polytheist perspective .. as that is the perspective from which the story is told . the perspective of the person that wrote the story .. .. not You or my or 20th century monotheistic perspective .. nor 21st. heh heh hehhhhhhhh
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I'm going to skip most of your very wordy reply and get to the heart of the matter. Daniel was a Jew (not a historical person). Jesus was a Jew (a historical person). They both worshiped the "God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
In Daniel 6:26, King Darius says, "I issue a decree that in every part of my kingdom people must fear and reverence the God of Daniel. For he is the living God and he endures forever; his kingdom will not be destroyed, his dominion will never end." That is the same God that Jesus worshiped.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Armageddon will happen imo
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Not sure what Armegeddon has to do with Daniel and Jesus worshiping the same God. Is there some reason you switched topics?
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
It’s an objective fact that every human dies.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
No one is perfect lol
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Indeed
if you’re going by the book 100% you’re doing it wrong