Why does God care about Homosexuality?

[Autodidact]

Here's a perspective.
I love another woman. Our love is beautiful, beneficial, healthy, and makes the world a better place. There is nothing bad in it; it causes no harm. It is the best thing I've ever known. Were I religious, I would consider it holy. If someone tells me that their God condemns it, I know immediately that there is no validity to their religious beliefs. Either they're projecting their own prejudice, or their God doesn't know good from bad.

 

[Sunstone]

Here's a perspective.
I love another woman. Our love is beautiful, beneficial, healthy, and makes the world a better place. There is nothing bad in it; it causes no harm. It is the best thing I've ever known. Were I religious, I would consider it holy. If someone tells me that their God condemns it, I know immediately that there is no validity to their religious beliefs. Either they're projecting their own prejudice, or their God doesn't know good from bad.

Strange. I'm a straight guy, but this is extraordinarily close to my perspective too -- especially the last sentence.

 

[sandandfoam]

"Our love is beautiful, beneficial, healthy, and makes the world a better place."

I'm glad you've found it. To have such a relationship is in my view the point of existence. Good luck to you.

 

[Voltaire]

Ok i'll start off first by saying this, i am not in any way one bit Christian/Islamic/Buddhist or any other type of religion established here upon earth. Though i have talked about this topic amongst many Christian friends of mine. Now since i am not religious, i am clearly talking hypothetically here. The reason i even care about this matter and address it is strictly because i hate the way homosexuals (though i am far far from one myself)in todays society are treated, discriminated, and genuinely ostracized by today's church. So for the sake of supporting this oppressed group of people, i will hypothetically tell you exactly (according to morals, principles, the bible and learned knowledge) what GOD's stance on homosexuality is (and remember i am speaking very hypothetically here especially since speaking of GOD's very potential existence is contradictory to my entire belief) . GOD loves ALL of his children. Simple as that, there are few things people can do be sent to hell and be held in the bad favor of GOD (though very speculated exactly what these things were). One of them is NOT homosexuality. Though i have heard differently from many Christians i know, in no place in the bible does GOD specifically state, Homosexuality will send you to hell. Not to mention that though he was supposed to have guided those who wrote it, it was people, sinning, lying, cheating human beings that wrote the bible. If high ruling priests can rape little boys it is just as possible that some drunken priest could have added one of his personal beliefs in to he bible while translating it for the umpteenth time being assured that it was placed in his head by the word of GOD but this is a whole different topic entirely. It is extremely frustrating when people say that GOD hints to his dislike with homosexuality and then consider that a rule set in stone. Not only was the bible written hundreds of years ago, making many of its ideals somewhat outdated in our modern society, but it was also written in a land where killing an infidel in the name of GOD made things A OK. But back to the original topic. Homosexuality is NOT a choice made by someone. Yes there are many cases where people decide that they like guys and convince themselves that they are homosexuals and live their lives that way by there own choice. But true homosexuality, genuine homosexuality is completely genetic and is as unavoidable as the color of one's hair. Sure you can dye it a different color, or cut it up to make it almost unrecognizable but there is no hiding the fact that deep down in the lowest roots, your hair is brown, or black or red... If you happen to have had the opportunity to know a homosexual from a young age and watched them live life, grow and eventually come out of the closet you can not for a second say that it was all their choice. You can tell from grade school that they are different than your normal run of the mill school boy. At this age, a child doesn't know what a penis is let alone whether they prefer it to a vagina or not. Every generation needs there scape goats. From Jews to blacks to Muslims, it is now just homosexuals turn on the racist machine that is society. I apologize that you have fallen victim to our societies own insecurity but i know that a hundred years from now the world will be more open minded with their accusations and you will end up as just another minority in the mixing pot that is the world. Yet all is not bad, for it is far better to walk tall in your own mind than to be stepped on on a worn path.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Maybe god doesent care. Maybe he isn't even aware of it. Who stops love?

 

[gnomon]

And I was just making the point that whether or not God believes in US wasn't the issue

Actually, according to the OP that is the sole issue of this thread.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Welcome to the forum Voltaire. Yes Jesus loves his children and his flock. You have to be saved to belong to this family of God's love. You have to realize that God hates as well and it is never pretty.

Politically speaking, homosexuals should have equal rights. The issue of Choice is not a proven fact however. I am sure that it is not a choice for some folks, but when I see fathers and mothers leave a straight relationship and enter a gay one, I believe they made a conscious choice somewhere there OK?

I think you also are confusing prejudice with racism. We all are prejudice to some degree, but that does not make us racist. Racist's believe that their race is superior to others. Prejudice could mean that I prefer blonde's or that I hate a certain race or have a bad opinion of a certain group of people or prefer one group over another.

Prejudice could be a simple as an owner of many restaurants would want his Asian workers in his Chinese resturant and his Hispanic's in his Mexican resturant. Laughably, he could have Cubanos working there and Koreans working here and this guy would not understand the difference. That would make him ignorant, but not racist still.

 

[goraya15]

Why would we say that?

true dreams? What is that? Who cares? I don't use my dreams for evidence of anything else. How about this: You pray to your God for people to recover from illness, and then we'll see whether any more do than if no one prays for them. How does that sound?

The Efficacy of "Distant Healing" A Systematic Review of Randomized Trials -- Astin et al. 132 (11): 903 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif]The Efficacy of "Distant Healing" [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif]A Systematic Review of Randomized Trials [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif] [SIZE=-1] John A. Astin, PhD; Elaine Harkness, BSc; and Edzard Ernst, MD, PhD [/SIZE]
[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] 6 June 2000 | Volume 132 Issue 11 | Pages 903-910[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Purpose: To conduct a systematic review of the available data on the efficacy of any form of "distant healing" (prayer, mental healing, Therapeutic Touch, or spiritual healing) as treatment for any medical condition. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Data Sources: Studies were identified by an electronic search of the MEDLINE, PsychLIT, EMBASE, CISCOM, and Cochrane Library databases from their inception to the end of 1999 and by contact with researchers in the field. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Study Selection: Studies with the following features were included: random assignment, placebo or other adequate control, publication in peer-reviewed journals, clinical (rather than experimental) investigations, and use of human participants. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Data Extraction: Two investigators independently extracted data on study design, sample size, type of intervention, type of control, direction of effect (supporting or refuting the hypothesis), and nature of the outcomes. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Data Synthesis: A total of 23 trials involving 2774 patients met the inclusion criteria and were analyzed. Heterogeneity of the studies precluded a formal meta-analysis. Of the trials, 5 examined prayer as the distant healing intervention, 11 assessed noncontact Therapeutic Touch, and 7 examined other forms of distant healing. Of the 23 studies, 13 (57%) yielded statistically significant treatment effects, 9 showed no effect over control interventions, and 1 showed a negative effect. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
Conclusions: The methodologic limitations of several studies make it difficult to draw definitive conclusions about the efficacy of distant healing. However, given that approximately 57% of trials showed a positive treatment effect, the evidence thus far merits further study.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]


Now, there is something about prayer healing people, isn't there?

 

[goraya15]

You're comparing apples and oranges. Lesbian safe is safer than straight sex. Promiscuous lesbian sex is safer than promiscuous straight sex. Exclusive lesbian sex is safer than exclusive heterosexual sex. Clearly, God has blessed us lesbians, and all women should immediately stop having heterosexual sex, because it is cursed by God. This will have the additional benefit of reducing overpopulation. If you don't like this logic, stop using it; it's a bad argument.

Of course, you speak the truth, on your viewpoint of exclusively lesbian couples, having only 1 partner, having less of a chance of contracting an STD. Even less if there is no premarital sex (good luck finding one who acts on this principle). But you mention the benefit of reducing population. I see that you would want the human race wiped out, as every women should be a lesbian in your viewpoint because it's the "safest" thing to be.

And remember that all of this still falls short in terms of both safe and "beneficial to the human race" communion that is immortalized in the Holy Qur'an. Mainly, no pre-marital sex, no "dating" as is practiced in the west these days.

 

[Bathsheba]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Conclusions: [/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The methodologic limitations of several studies make it difficult to draw definitive conclusions about the efficacy of distant healing. However, given that approximately 57% of trials showed a positive treatment effect, the evidence thus far merits further study.[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]


Now, there is something about prayer healing people, isn't there?

No.

If you are going to play with "science" then you have to play by the rules of science. The conclusion states that more study is merited, that's it, no difinitive conclusions have been drawn according to this study.

 

[Smoke]

I am very sorry that what I’ve said on this thread has exacerbated you. In fact, I feel downright ashamed of myself, that my words have had a similar effect on you as the ignorant anti-gay rhetoric that we see all over the internet and on this forum. Is it possible that I have said something as inane and venomous as that? If I have, I want nothing more than to understand where I went wrong, apologize for it, and quit wasting your time as you try to reason with those who are genuinely against same-sex marriage.

No, Spinkles, I'm not angry with you. I understand where you're coming from, and I even agree that taking the time to patiently explain things to these people is a better approach. But I'm tired of it. It gets old, it gets really old, to go through your life explaining that you're a person, too, and explaining why you ought to have the same rights as heterosexuals. It gets old especially because a substantial percentage of the people you explain it to will never understand it, because their devotion to religion has made them incapable of reason or compassion on this issue. I'm just tired of it.

On these forums, we have the same thing over and over again: People come here thinking they can prove that their sect is the true one, that their prophet was the true messenger of god, that their sacred text is the true word of god, that evolution is a myth, that homosexuality is wrong and that LGBTs shouldn't have the rights of other citizens, that their group has the right to kill people they feel threatened by (whether it's Muslims or Americans they fear really doesn't make any difference); in short, it's a constant parade of mentally and morally deformed victims of religion who nevertheless desire nothing more than to fight in defense of the very religion that has deformed them. Sometimes, over time and with great patience from people like you, they're able to become a bit more reasonable, a bit less hateful. But it's slow, mind-numbing work. I'm not saying it's not good work, but it's inefficient, and maybe I'm just not up to it.

 

[ghayas]

God did not create man with sin, it is men who indulge in such indecent activities.It is man who do with his free will.To avoid such things he should have god fear,that he is watching.It is not by nature,it is man who transgress beyond bonds.

 

[Bathsheba]

Of course, you speak the truth, on your viewpoint of exclusively lesbian couples, having only 1 partner, having less of a chance of contracting an STD. Even less if there is no premarital sex (good luck finding one who acts on this principle).

Luck has nothing to do with the point being made. The point, if you care to follow the debate, has demonstrated the uselessness of your argument.

But you mention the benefit of reducing population. I see that you would want the human race wiped out, as every women should be a lesbian in your viewpoint because it's the "safest" thing to be.

No one is advocating wiping out the human race and no one is advocating that everyone should be a lesbian. Please read more carefully.

And remember that all of this still falls short in terms of both safe and "beneficial to the human race" communion that is immortalized in the Holy Qur'an. Mainly, no pre-marital sex, no "dating" as is practiced in the west these days.

Please remember (speaking for myself) that your holy book is irrelevant to me.

 

[Bathsheba]

God did not create man with sin, it is men who indulge in such indecent activities.It is man who do with his free will.To avoid such things he should have god fear,that he is watching.It is not by nature,it is man who transgress beyond bonds.

Don't preach your religion, this is quite nauseating.

 

[goraya15]

True but then something similar could be said about prophets and prophecies. The fact that they tend to speack so generally that it would be a simple matter to interpret them as predicting the future. Perhaps it would be better phrased as saying that you seem to think one must be able to predict the future in order to have proof of God. But I've been able to prove to myself at least that Gods exist and never once have I "predicted" the future.

I said for absolute, undeniable proof that God exists, one should, with God's help, consistently be able to foresee events or have converse with him, through which he gains knowledge that is otherwise not possible for him to have.

It is true that some prophets do speak generally. But in my opinion, prophets and messengers of God are shown extraordinary help by God, so much so that those witness to them must admit that there's something going on. And on the contrary, they do not generally speak vaguely. Look at the many prophecies in the Holy Qur'an, and in the Ahadith (sayings) of Mohammad. Of course, you could argue about the autheticity and truthfulness of them, as you are not a muslim, but I am merely pointing to the fact that a good bunch of them are not vague, but crystal clear.

Now, if you want other kinds of proof, there are thousands, of which I'm sure you've heard many (miracles of universe, body, such order in everything needs a creator, etc.)

 

[goraya15]

No.

If you are going to play with "science" then you have to play by the rules of science. The conclusion states that more study is merited, that's it, no difinitive conclusions have been drawn according to this study.

No, there is no conclusive, undeniable proof, which is why after quoting that I said:

Now, there is something about prayer healing people, isn't there?

But are you really going to close your eyes to such a huge statistical anomaly? The nature of prayer itself is so varied itself that it would be impossible to come up with solid evidence backing up it's effectiveness, as there are too many variables (religion, people, illnesses being prayed for, other things being prayed for, etc.)
BUT...
There are also other studies confirming this, do a little research, I'm just confirming that my point of view has merit.

 

[goraya15]

Quote:
Originally Posted by goraya15
Of course, you speak the truth, on your viewpoint of exclusively lesbian couples, having only 1 partner, having less of a chance of contracting an STD. Even less if there is no premarital sex (good luck finding one who acts on this principle).

Luck has nothing to do with the point being made. The point, if you care to follow the debate, has demonstrated the uselessness of your argument.

????? All I said was that you would be hard pressed to find a lesbian to didn't indulge in premarital sex. Please, stick to the main argument outlined, and stop trying to knit pick through arguments, finding choice words to focus your arguments on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goraya15
But you mention the benefit of reducing population. I see that you would want the human race wiped out, as every women should be a lesbian in your viewpoint because it's the "safest" thing to be.

No one is advocating wiping out the human race and no one is advocating that everyone should be a lesbian. Please read more carefully.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Lesbian safe is safer than straight sex. Promiscuous lesbian sex is safer than promiscuous straight sex. Exclusive lesbian sex is safer than exclusive heterosexual sex. Clearly, God has blessed us lesbians, and all women should immediately stop having heterosexual sex, because it is cursed by God. This will have the additional benefit of reducing overpopulation. If you don't like this logic, stop using it; it's a bad argument.

Perhaps we should all be reading a bit more carefully hmmm...


Quote:
Originally Posted by goraya15
And remember that all of this still falls short in terms of both safe and "beneficial to the human race" communion that is immortalized in the Holy Qur'an. Mainly, no pre-marital sex, no "dating" as is practiced in the west these days.

Please remember (speaking for myself) that your holy book is irrelevant to me.

Of course, I never thought that it would be. But to completely reject a book and it's teachings, not trying to even refute it through logic, as you seem to pride yourself on doing, is common bigotry. Please, just try to counter the argument without declaring how irrelevant other peoples views are.

 

[McBell]

Please, just try to counter the argument without declaring how irrelevant other peoples views are.

She has.
Repeatedly.

 

[Bathsheba]

goraya15 do you believe god is punishing homosexuals with the HIV because homosexuals have sex that you believe god has said is wrong?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

God wouldn't punish anyone beacuse they are gay. God cares about all us humans. He will love us no matter what. The sooner we realise this the better. Abrahamic religions being in the majority are ruining society.