Why does God care about Homosexuality?

[Bathsheba]

No, Spinkles, I'm not angry with you. I understand where you're coming from, and I even agree that taking the time to patiently explain things to these people is a better approach. But I'm tired of it. It gets old, it gets really old, to go through your life explaining that you're a person, too, and explaining why you ought to have the same rights as heterosexuals. It gets old especially because a substantial percentage of the people you explain it to will never understand it, because their devotion to religion has made them incapable of reason or compassion on this issue. I'm just tired of it.

On these forums, we have the same thing over and over again: People come here thinking they can prove that their sect is the true one, that their prophet was the true messenger of god, that their sacred text is the true word of god, that evolution is a myth, that homosexuality is wrong and that LGBTs shouldn't have the rights of other citizens, that their group has the right to kill people they feel threatened by (whether it's Muslims or Americans they fear really doesn't make any difference); in short, it's a constant parade of mentally and morally deformed victims of religion who nevertheless desire nothing more than to fight in defense of the very religion that has deformed them. Sometimes, over time and with great patience from people like you, they're able to become a bit more reasonable, a bit less hateful. But it's slow, mind-numbing work. I'm not saying it's not good work, but it's inefficient, and maybe I'm just not up to it.

I heart this post.

 

[Autodidact]

Welcome to the forum Voltaire. Yes Jesus loves his children and his flock. You have to be saved to belong to this family of God's love. You have to realize that God hates as well and it is never pretty.

And you have to realize that this is only your personal opinion, not a well-accepted fact. You're entitled to your opinion, Rick, but that's all it is, and should be presented as such.

Politically speaking, homosexuals should have equal rights. The issue of Choice is not a proven fact however. I am sure that it is not a choice for some folks, but when I see fathers and mothers leave a straight relationship and enter a gay one, I believe they made a conscious choice somewhere there OK?

1. I think the choice issue is completely irrelevant. Obviously you've chosen to be Christian, and think you should have the right to do so. The issue is not one of choice, but of whether it harms others or impinges on their rights. Since it doesn't, it's not a matter for civic concern. Neither is your Christianity, as long as you don't try to make others conform with it.
2. Obviously one doesn't choose one's tastes, but does choose whether to act on them. If homosexuality was wrong, then homosexuals should choose not to engage in it. I do note though that for the most part the people who are advocating celibacy for homosexuals are not themselves gay. That is, it's easy to recommend that other people make a sacrifice. Again, it would behove people to be more concerned with their own sins than other people's.

 

[Autodidact]

The Efficacy of "Distant Healing" A Systematic Review of Randomized Trials -- Astin et al. 132 (11): 903 -- Annals of Internal Medicine

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif]The Efficacy of "Distant Healing" [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif]A Systematic Review of Randomized Trials [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif] [SIZE=-1] John A. Astin, PhD; Elaine Harkness, BSc; and Edzard Ernst, MD, PhD [/SIZE]
[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1] 6 June 2000 | Volume 132 Issue 11 | Pages 903-910[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Purpose: To conduct a systematic review of the available data on the efficacy of any form of "distant healing" (prayer, mental healing, Therapeutic Touch, or spiritual healing) as treatment for any medical condition. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Data Sources: Studies were identified by an electronic search of the MEDLINE, PsychLIT, EMBASE, CISCOM, and Cochrane Library databases from their inception to the end of 1999 and by contact with researchers in the field. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Study Selection: Studies with the following features were included: random assignment, placebo or other adequate control, publication in peer-reviewed journals, clinical (rather than experimental) investigations, and use of human participants. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Data Extraction: Two investigators independently extracted data on study design, sample size, type of intervention, type of control, direction of effect (supporting or refuting the hypothesis), and nature of the outcomes. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Data Synthesis: A total of 23 trials involving 2774 patients met the inclusion criteria and were analyzed. Heterogeneity of the studies precluded a formal meta-analysis. Of the trials, 5 examined prayer as the distant healing intervention, 11 assessed noncontact Therapeutic Touch, and 7 examined other forms of distant healing. Of the 23 studies, 13 (57%) yielded statistically significant treatment effects, 9 showed no effect over control interventions, and 1 showed a negative effect. [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1][FONT=arial, verdana, helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]
Conclusions: The methodologic limitations of several studies make it difficult to draw definitive conclusions about the efficacy of distant healing. However, given that approximately 57% of trials showed a positive treatment effect, the evidence thus far merits further study.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]


Now, there is something about prayer healing people, isn't there?

So you see that there is no evidence that it works, right? 13/9 is very close to random--not statistically significant. In one study, the researchers were found to have been guilty of retroactively changing the study criteria to fit the data, a no-no aka drawing the bulls-eye around the arrows.

 

[gnomon]

gnomon checks name of website, shakes head and walks on.

 

[Autodidact]

Of course, you speak the truth, on your viewpoint of exclusively lesbian couples, having only 1 partner, having less of a chance of contracting an STD. Even less if there is no premarital sex (good luck finding one who acts on this principle). But you mention the benefit of reducing population. I see that you would want the human race wiped out, as every women should be a lesbian in your viewpoint because it's the "safest" thing to be.

Just speaking for myself, I'm a lesbian and I have 3 kids, so no. Over all, I think the world would be a better place if every child were a wanted child.

But really, I'm trying to show you how ridiculous your logic is. Although I find the lesbian way of life very positive, I'm not suggesting that women who were born heterosexual convert to it. I do think they might want to give it a try, however, due to its numerous advantages.

And remember that all of this still falls short in terms of both safe and "beneficial to the human race" communion that is immortalized in the Holy Qur'an. Mainly, no pre-marital sex, no "dating" as is practiced in the west these days.

Since I'm not a Muslim, conforming to the Qu'ran is not a goal for me. I'm just interested in living a good life.

What do you think of punishing people for having gay sex, as many Muslim countries do?

 

[Autodidact]

Strange. I'm a straight guy, but this is extraordinarily close to my perspective too -- especially the last sentence.

Not strange, really. Love is love, right?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

You can't punish anyone for having sex. Its like kicking someone for eating turkey durign easter, its wierd, or different to you, but youn don't hate anyone for it.

 

[Autodidact]

God did not create man with sin, it is men who indulge in such indecent activities.It is man who do with his free will.To avoid such things he should have god fear,that he is watching.It is not by nature,it is man who transgress beyond bonds.

In your opinion. Does being religious inherently make people arrogant, or why do you think you know better than the rest of us?

 

[Melissa G]

Why does God care if two guys or two girls have sex with each other?

That's a silly question to ask of mortal men, unless by some wierd transferrence they truly know the mind of God, if indeed God exists, which is highly unlikely. People who claim to speak for God, are really speaking for themselves !

Melissa g

 

[Autodidact]

No, there is no conclusive, undeniable proof, which is why after quoting that I said:

Now, there is something about prayer healing people, isn't there?

But are you really going to close your eyes to such a huge statistical anomaly? The nature of prayer itself is so varied itself that it would be impossible to come up with solid evidence backing up it's effectiveness, as there are too many variables (religion, people, illnesses being prayed for, other things being prayed for, etc.)
BUT...
There are also other studies confirming this, do a little research, I'm just confirming that my point of view has merit.

Sorry, 57% is not a huge statistical anomaly. It's very close to random. This survey should show you that there has not been found any beneficial effect to intercessory prayer.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Hate is such a strong word. I don't hate anyone. If I ever did, I would have to forgive them and cut it loose. Hate will eat you up inside and turn you into something that you are not.

 

[Bathsheba]

You can't punish anyone for having sex.

Sodomy Laws

 

[Autodidact]

????? All I said was that you would be hard pressed to find a lesbian to didn't indulge in premarital sex. Please, stick to the main argument outlined, and stop trying to knit pick through arguments, finding choice words to focus your arguments on.

Well yeah, since lesbians can't get married. Talk about stacking the deck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goraya15
But you mention the benefit of reducing population. I see that you would want the human race wiped out, as every women should be a lesbian in your viewpoint because it's the "safest" thing to be.

No one is advocating wiping out the human race and no one is advocating that everyone should be a lesbian. Please read more carefully.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Lesbian safe is safer than straight sex. Promiscuous lesbian sex is safer than promiscuous straight sex. Exclusive lesbian sex is safer than exclusive heterosexual sex. Clearly, God has blessed us lesbians, and all women should immediately stop having heterosexual sex, because it is cursed by God. This will have the additional benefit of reducing overpopulation. If you don't like this logic, stop using it; it's a bad argument.

Perhaps we should all be reading a bit more carefully hmmm...

Perhaps some of us should learn to appreciate parody.

Of course, I never thought that it would be. But to completely reject a book and it's teachings, not trying to even refute it through logic, as you seem to pride yourself on doing, is common bigotry. Please, just try to counter the argument without declaring how irrelevant other peoples views are.

So you've read all the holy books of all the world's religions and refuted them logically? Sounds awfully time-consuming to me.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Its really hard to get quoted here...

Gays are cruel.

 

[Melissa G]

True, I love a little spanking action )

 

[goraya15]

goraya15 do you believe god is punishing homosexuals with the HIV because homosexuals have sex that you believe god has said is wrong?

Let me explain my whole position on this HIV thing. HIV is mainly spread through people who are promiscuous, with the highest concentration being in homosexuals. Now, it is also spread through the general public who are not promiscuous, per se, but do practice out of marriage sex. Now, all the things above have been condemned in the Holy Qur'an, with particular emphasis being laid on homosexuals.

SO...if a virus happened to crop up, in large numbers, at about the same time when homosexuals were starting to "come out of the closet" in large numbers, so to speak, and from that highest concentration, moved on to other sexually loose people, the logical conclusion for me would be to assume that it's a virus that targets those kinds of people. Now, looking to the Qur'an, God has specifically said how he sent a rain on the people of lot, who were openly sexually loose and saw no wrong in homosexuality, and they were destroyed. In the idiom of the Qur'an, every mention of punishment is not just a history lesson, it is a warning for future generations.

So...I would say yes. Through consequence of NON-ISLAMIC regard to sexual relations (homosexuality + promiscuity), a letahal virus has cropped up to discourage these practices, just like foretold in the Holy Qur'an. And in retrospect, God never punishes without sending warnings, in my opinion for non-muslims in the form of non-lethal STD's.

 

[Bathsheba]

True, I love a little spanking action )

I went looking for a spanking emoticon and found my very own "bath" emoticon...I think I'm going to cry.

 

[Melissa G]

lol, I quite like that, only you need a bath big enough for two to lay around in, although with a tight squeeze...

 

[Don Penguinoini]

True, I love a little spanking action )

I can help! I live in england too!
:drool:

 

[Bathsheba]

Let me explain my whole position on this HIV thing. HIV is mainly spread through people who are promiscuous, with the highest concentration being in homosexuals. Now, it is also spread through the general public who are not promiscuous, per se, but do practice out of marriage sex. Now, all the things above have been condemned in the Holy Qur'an, with particular emphasis being laid on homosexuals.

SO...if a virus happened to crop up, in large numbers, at about the same time when homosexuals were starting to "come out of the closet" in large numbers, so to speak, and from that highest concentration, moved on to other sexually loose people, the logical conclusion for me would be to assume that it's a virus that targets those kinds of people. Now, looking to the Qur'an, God has specifically said how he sent a rain on the people of lot, who were openly sexually loose and saw no wrong in homosexuality, and they were destroyed. In the idiom of the Qur'an, every mention of punishment is not just a history lesson, it is a warning for future generations.

So...I would say yes. Through consequence of NON-ISLAMIC regard to sexual relations (homosexuality + promiscuity), a letahal virus has cropped up to discourage these practices, just like foretold in the Holy Qur'an. And in retrospect, God never punishes without sending warnings, in my opinion for non-muslims in the form of non-lethal STD's.

That is what I thought you believed.