Why does god need to test us?

[YoursTrue]

Hmmm, interesting. It makes sense in a biblical sense as well when I think of the parable of Elijah and the forces of nature found in 1 Kings 19:11 on. God doesn't have to, and frankly doesn't intend to pull all the strings. I wonder why so many biblical literalists insist he does, then, when the bible itself says the opposite?

Yes, by the way I learned that early on in my Bible studies. If we enjoy life, etc. we (I) can be happy to be alive and I do not challenge God's right to rule. (Make lasting decisions.)

 

[YoursTrue]

Why do you blame it on Satan? I do not believe there is a Satan, so I believe God is fully responsible for whatever tests He sends to us, even if it is for our own good.

I used to not believe in the devil's existence until I studied the Bible. It made a lot of sense to me to realize that what the Bible is saying about why we suffer is true.

 

[YoursTrue]

I never did understand those who believe god is never changing who then pray to ask god to change his mind....
....

(lol) Well, that is a thought that could need clarification and examination.

 

[alypius]

What about Yahweh, though? What possible reason is there for testing us? What's this test for, and why does he need/want for us to pass it? Why does he care whether or not we pass this test, and why did he even make the test in the first place?

If God is all-knowing, then could a test be for our self-knowledge?

 

[Trailblazer]

I used to not believe in the devil's existence until I studied the Bible. It made a lot of sense to me to realize that what the Bible is saying about why we suffer is true.

What does the Bible say about why we suffer?

 

[Deeje]

Not until we die, and thank God we will be going somewhere else after that.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

*Sigh*

......that scripture isn't saying what most people think it's saying....and especially to those who are not Christians. You can quote Christian scripture all you want....if it doesn't apply to you, it isn't talking to you.
When humans die, they don't go anywhere. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) There is no immortal soul in the Bible....and never was. The dead are all still dead.....sleeping peacefully until the resurrection.....(John 5:28-29)....that is what the Bible teaches.

First of all, there are no "mansions".....it translates as "dwelling places" or "abodes" and there were a finite number who were chosen for a role in heaven (Revelation 14:1-3)......and second of all, Jesus was going to prepare a place for his "joint heirs"...those who would rule with him in his Kingdom.....they will all be "kings and priests" with a specific role to play. (Revelation 20:6) These are rulers in the Kingdom of God....seen bringing their rulership to 'mankind' on earth. The 'everyone is going to heaven' idea is nonsense. If God had wanted us in heaven he would have put us there in the first place, like he did the angels. This is not a training ground for heaven.

If you do not accept Jesus as the Christ whose blood has ransomed obedient mankind, and who rose from the dead, (Romans 6:5) then there is no chance that you will ever be living in those "dwelling places". None of us can cherry pick scripture in order to put ourselves where we are not invited. If Jesus is not your Savior, then you are not saved....its really that simple.

The only reason to want to leave this planet is the mistaken notion that it is the only way to escape from the woes of this life....that there will always be trouble here....but that is not true. Its not that we need to leave the earth to make the pain go away...its that God will cleanse the earth of all the trouble makers and create a new earthly society where there will never be pain and suffering here again....why? Because "the former things have passed away." (Revelation 21:2-4) Only God can do this.

What does the Bible say about why we suffer?

See Post #44

 

[YoursTrue]

What does the Bible say about why we suffer?

We inherit death and sin from Adam. And just like Satan tempted Jesus, Satan is like a roaring lion eager to devour someone. But Jesus told Satan to go away and did not give in to the temptation.

 

[Trailblazer]

*Sigh*

......that scripture isn't saying what most people think it's saying....and especially to those who are not Christians. You can quote Christian scripture all you want....if it doesn't apply to you, it isn't talking to you.

I know, but Baha'i scripture is talking to me.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

When humans die, they don't go anywhere. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) There is no immortal soul in the Bible....and never was. The dead are all still dead.....sleeping peacefully until the resurrection.....(John 5:28-29)....that is what the Bible teaches

You can believe that if you want to, and you will, but that is not what the Bible teaches since the Bible does not 'teach' anything. People read the Bible and interpret it as they read and assign meanings to the verses and they thereby teach themselves. As such, you have a certain interpretation of the Bible that you believe it is correct, but as you know other Christians do not share your interpretation. So what's up? Why do you think you are right and they are wrong?

The Christian that wrote this book assigned a different meaning to resurrection. When he said that the spirit passes from one world to another, he was referring to what Baha'is call the soul, and in fact the Baha'is also refer to the soul also as the human spirit.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

What the Christian above wrote above is congruent with the Bible. The physical body returns to the earth and the spirit returns to God, who resides in the spiritual world.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

If Jesus is not your Savior, then you are not saved....its really that simple.

Sorry to say the teaching that Jesus was a Savior did not come from Jesus, it came from Paul. Jesus knew nothing of any original sin committed by Adam and Eve, and Jesus did not die to save us from it, although He did give His life as a ransom for the sins and inequities of humanity. What you and other Christians believe is Christian doctrine, it is not what Jesus taught.

The only reason to want to leave this planet is the mistaken notion that it is the only way to escape from the woes of this life....that there will always be trouble here....but that is not true. Its not that we need to leave the earth to make the pain go away.

It is not about what I want. The reason I believe we will leave this planet is because that is what is revealed in scripture -- the Bible, the Qur'an, and the Baha'i.Writings. You cannot just decide that you are going to live forever on earth because you want to, it does not work that way. God created this world and a spiritual world with specific purposes, and after we have fulfilled our purpose in earth we will go to the spiritual world. Those who have eternal life will go to heaven, the others who are distant from God will go elsewhere.

 

[Trailblazer]

We inherit death and sin from Adam. And just like Satan tempted Jesus, Satan is like a roaring lion eager to devour someone. But Jesus told Satan to go away and did not give in to the temptation.

With all due respect, I do not believe we inherited the sins of Adam and Eve because I do not believe in the doctrine of original sin. I also do not believe in a being called Satan, but rather I believe that Satan as mentioned in the scriptures represents the lower selfish nature in man, the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside. One reason humans suffer is because they live according their lower selfish natures as opposed to their higher spiritual nature. The other reason we suffer is because suffering is unavoidable while living in a material world.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The way I interpret those verses is that Jesus was not talking to a real entity called Satan, because I do not believe there is any such entity. Rather, Jesus was saying to Peter that the things that are not of God but are rather of men (selfish desires) are offensive to Him. Then Jesus tells His disciples to deny their selfish desires and to follow in His Way.because whoever lives for their selfish desires will lose his eternal life, but whoever sacrifices his life for the sake of Jesus and God will gain eternal life. It is the soul that gets eternal life, not the body.

Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in His Way.

 

[1213]

Hmmm... Life is full of adversity and pain. Some of this pain is rather pointless. What kind of lesson is god trying to teach me if I accidentally stub my toe?

If you are the one who stubs, I think you are the one who is giving a lesson. Perhaps you wanted to learn why you need to be careful.

Why did god create a universe where minor (or major, depending on how hard I stub it) and meaningless pain not only exists, but is an unavoidable and assured thing at some point.

By what the Bible tells, God created a good place and then people rejected Him and were expelled to this place. The reason why people rejected God was that they wanted to know evil. Here we can know it and I believe that is the reason why we are in this first death to learn what evil truly means. Luckily nothing of this world can destroy soul, which is the important thing. In Biblical point of view this is like Matrix and body can be replaced.

I have bruises on my shins that I have no idea how they got there, but I know I must have bumped into something....

Are you using lot of alcohol? Are you from Finland?

Also, why would god choose pain and discomfort as teaching mechanisms at all? There are other ways of learning things, and the thing in life learned without pain seem to be just as viable as thing learned with pain (such as in observing the actions of others, or learning from a text book).

I agree that there are different ways to learn, I believe this is what people chose in the beginning.

 

[Neuropteron]

Why do you blame it on Satan? I do not believe there is a Satan, so I believe God is fully responsible for whatever tests He sends to us, even if it is for our own good.

Hi,
It is not me that blames Satan. Whether I personally believe in Satan or in his culpability is irrelevant and has no bearing on Bible teachings.


.

 

[Trailblazer]

By what the Bible tells, God created a good place and then people rejected Him and were expelled to this place. The reason why people rejected God was that they wanted to know evil. Here we can know it and I believe that is the reason why we are in this first death to learn what evil truly means. Luckily nothing of this world can destroy soul, which is the important thing. In Biblical point of view this is like Matrix and body can be replaced.

What you mean is "according to your interpretation of the Bible." I do not see anything in the Bible that says any of that so I have to conclude that it is simply a Christian belief many Christians hold.

I agree that there are different ways to learn, I believe this is what people chose in the beginning.

I do not believe people chose this life, I believe that God had this in His plan all along. We were always intended to live out our mortal lives on earth and then die, after which time our souls will ascend to heaven and take on another form, a spiritual body, as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:40-54.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi,
It is not me that blames Satan. Whether I personally believe in Satan or in his culpability is irrelevant and has no bearing on Bible teachings.

So you believe that the Bible teaches that everything is Satan's fault? God has no part in testing us when He sends us tests?

 

[Bird123]

What are we being advanced in preparation for?

When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the Best choices. We are all on the road to Great Knowledge, Great Wisdom and the Higher Level. In order to create a Heavenly State for oneself, one must understand How. Since there is no time limit on learning, All the kiddies are going to make it.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Both.

There is no test. It's all education at it's best. Failing, Condemning, and Punishing are mankind concepts. These concepts are formed through hate or the desire for payback. These are petty concepts.

Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. Look to the results rather than critiquing the journey. Those things that people want removed from the journey supply Great Wisdom and Knowledge.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no test. It's all education at it's best. Failing, Condemning, and Punishing are mankind concepts. These concepts are formed through hate or the desire for payback. These are petty concepts.

Who ever said that tests are Failing, Condemning, and Punishing or that they are concepts formed through hate or the desire for payback? God does not hate or seek revenge or payback, although there are rewards and punishments in this world and in the next world.

“The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 219

Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. Look to the results rather than critiquing the journey. Those things that people want removed from the journey supply Great Wisdom and Knowledge.

God's Love might be unconditional but God's justice isn't.

2: O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 3-4

64: O OPPRESSORS ON EARTH! Withdraw your hands from tyranny, for I have pledged Myself not to forgive any man’s injustice. This is My covenant which I have irrevocably decreed in the preserved tablet and sealed with My seal.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 44

Justice means punishing actions or words that are wrong and upholding things that are good. This helps ensure that wrongs will be ended and rights will be upheld thereby leading to a safer society for everyone. It would seem sometimes that children have a keen internal sense of justice
.
What is justice and why is it important? - Quora

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

With all due respect, I do not believe we inherited the sins of Adam and Eve because I do not believe in the doctrine of original sin. I also do not believe in a being called Satan, but rather I believe that Satan as mentioned in the scriptures represents the lower selfish nature in man, the evil ego within us, not an evil personality outside. One reason humans suffer is because they live according their lower selfish natures as opposed to their higher spiritual nature. The other reason we suffer is because suffering is unavoidable while living in a material world.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The way I interpret those verses is that Jesus was not talking to a real entity called Satan, because I do not believe there is any such entity. Rather, Jesus was saying to Peter that the things that are not of God but are rather of men (selfish desires) are offensive to Him. Then Jesus tells His disciples to deny their selfish desires and to follow in His Way.because whoever lives for their selfish desires will lose his eternal life, but whoever sacrifices his life for the sake of Jesus and God will gain eternal life. It is the soul that gets eternal life, not the body.

Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in His Way.

Do you believe Adam and Eve existed as described in the Bible? That's first of all.

 

[YoursTrue]

So you believe that the Bible teaches that everything is Satan's fault? God has no part in testing us when He sends us tests?

In reference to that thought, we didn't inherit genes from Satan.

 

[Earthtank]

I've heard it said that god tests us with the challenges we face in life... But why? What's the point? What's the end goal of this test?

In known nordic mythologies, Odin takes the best warriors with him to Valhalla to train and get ready to fight in Ragnarok. Their test in life shows their fighting skill so they can be of actual use to the gods in that apocalyptic war. That makes sense to me...

What about Yahweh, though? What possible reason is there for testing us? What's this test for, and why does he need/want for us to pass it? Why does he care whether or not we pass this test, and why did he even make the test in the first place?

well depending on the religion you are thinking about the answer will change but, from Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it's so when you are questioned by God, you will have committed the acts you are being rewarded/punished for. It's not that God does not know but he can't say "hey here go to hell and burn for all eternity because I knew what you were going to do" rather its more like "hey here go to hell because you did committed all these bad actions and here is the proof".

With that said, I honestly think people that ask questions like you do are just too lazy to research anything and simply want to ask questions out of boredom and laziness

Please excuse any typos, using my phone.

 

[YoursTrue]

well depending on the religion you are thinking about the answer will change but, from Judaism, Christianity and Islam, it's so when you are questioned by God, you will have committed the acts you are being rewarded/punished for. It's not that God does not know but he can't say "hey here go to hell and burn for all eternity because I knew what you were going to do" rather its more like "hey here go to hell because you did committed all these bad actions and here is the proof".

With that said, I honestly think people that ask questions like you do are just too lazy to research anything and simply want to ask questions out of boredom and laziness

Please excuse any typos, using my phone.

Maybe such persons can pray in good conscience and ask for knowledge to the One they can''t see. And yes, like you say, they would have to do the work and ask questions if someone explains things to them, that is right.