Why does god rely so heavily on faith?

[McBell]

Well, the question was worded in such a way that it was pretty hard to do otherwise and still get my point across. What I meant to say is that it does seem egotistical to me for anyone to be convinced that there could not possibly be any Being in existance that is infinitely more powerful and knowledgeable than man. It also seems to me that it's extremely short-sighted to think that if such a Being did exist, we would have the capability of proving His existance without it being His will that we do so. To me, faith is simply believing that there is, or at least could be. Anyway, I trust that you realize it was not my intention to offend. I just didn't know how else to answer the question.

It is my thinking that you already knew what you posted was offensive by the last part in parenthesis...

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Hi! In fact, there are a lot of evidences of God's existence. Interestingly, how Bible itself says about this: For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [those who deny God's existence] are inexcusable"(Romans 1:20) By watching God's creation and reading his word, person's faith gets stronger. The person has to build up his faith.

 

[cottage]

Well, the question was worded in such a way that it was pretty hard to do otherwise and still get my point across. What I meant to say is that it does seem egotistical to me for anyone to be convinced that there could not possibly be any Being in existance that is infinitely more powerful and knowledgeable than man. It also seems to me that it's extremely short-sighted to think that if such a Being did exist, we would have the capability of proving His existance without it being His will that we do so. To me, faith is simply believing that there is, or at least could be. Anyway, I trust that you realize it was not my intention to offend. I just didn't know how else to answer the question.

It's quite reasonable to speculate to the existence of a First Cause; but let's remember that the bare-bones concept of supreme being isn't owned by any belief system or mystical understanding. The second part of the post is a very different matter, however, and to speak of 'His will' allowing or not allowing us to establish the existence of such a concept is a purely mystical statement. In other words, logical possibility is given an emotional or mystical interpretation. Surely, that's egotisical?

 

[waitasec]

Everybody would believe if every truth could be proven conclusively.

then why isn't it?

In my opinion, believers simply acknowledge the possible (or probable) existance of something greater than themselves while the non-believers are convinced that they're the ultimately unsurpassable beings.

non believers do the same when approaching nature and realize it's indifference, at least for me that is...

From a believer's standpoint, it would seem that this would be a useful way for God to be able to separate the humble from the egotistical. (Can't wait for the flack over this one.)

tell me who is taking a humble stance...
the believer who thinks they're important enough that god is actually concerned with their daily activities -or-
the unbeliever who thinks nature is indifferent and couldn't care any less about our importance?

Well, the question was worded in such a way that it was pretty hard to do otherwise and still get my point across. What I meant to say is that it does seem egotistical to me for anyone to be convinced that there could not possibly be any Being in existance that is infinitely more powerful and knowledgeable than man.

i can see why you would think that but, in my opinion, it gives the believer an undue sense of importance...open any history book and you will see why.

It also seems to me that it's extremely short-sighted to think that if such a Being did exist, we would have the capability of proving His existance without it being His will that we do so.

this to me also shows the undue sense of superiority because of the faith the believers have...
i can see; you are blind;
when talking about faith (a subject that has been debated because of the sense of undue importance it bestows to believers)

To me, faith is simply believing that there is, or at least could be. Anyway, I trust that you realize it was not my intention to offend. I just didn't know how else to answer the question.

to me faith is assuming one is right because they are on gods side...
the problem with that is, so does everyone else of other faiths and division is found in this undue sense of importance.

 

[waitasec]

Hi! In fact, there are a lot of evidences of God's existence. Interestingly, how Bible itself says about this: For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [those who deny God's existence] are inexcusable"(Romans 1:20) By watching God's creation and reading his word, person's faith gets stronger. The person has to build up his faith.

but when this was written, did they attain the knowledge we have now?
we know what causes disease, we know about the brain and psychological disorders which would have been assumed as demon possession, we know how the wind is made and why we have earthquakes...we can heal many diseases. we know we are not the center of the universe and how small we are...
so really looking at nature one can only see it's indifference

 

[Oneatatime]

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

Religion is dependent on faith because the core claims of any particular religion must be assumed correct before they can be built upon otherwise that religion will have an unstable foundation. These core claims have proven to be remarkably resiliant be this due to the sucess of religious at perpetuating them or a tendency for these beliefs to arise in humans naturally.

Faith plays a part in non-religious life as well because at some point we all must accept that something is true in the absence of evidence to verify this just so that we can progress with our lives. This faith is otherwise known as trust and undoubtedly without some degree of trust society wouldn't function as individuals wouldn't be willing to able to rely on others doing what they say they will do.

There is a difference between religious faith and trust in that trust is often tested. If person A says that they will do something and they do it then I gain confidence and not have to rely so much on trust. Alternatively if person A doesn't do what they said they will then our confidence in them will fall and will be less willing to trust them again in future.

In religion I believe a similar things happen regarding the peripheral claims of religion which can result in people developing a confidence in their beliefs when events appear to verify them or a loss of confidence and faith when they events do not. The core claims of religion tend not to be tested themselves such as belief in souls or the existance of God but are indirectly influences by the net gain/loss in confidence and faith which occurs when peripheral beliefs are tested.

So in my view religious faith is a product of the system humans use to determine who and what they should and should not trust and have confidence in. Such a system is important to have given the role it has in ensuring an individuals survival and reproductive success so its likely to have been selected for by evolution.

 

[waitasec]

In religion I believe a similar things happen regarding the peripheral claims of religion which can result in people developing a confidence in their beliefs when events appear to verify them or a loss of confidence and faith when they events do not.

i disagree here, think of haiti for example, certain religious people blamed the haitians for being devil worshippers, and even with 9/11, certain religious people blamed the acceptance of homosexuality and abortion in the US...
sure it's a disgusting notion but who in their right mind would think or believe such a thing...
some even go as far as saying it is better to get AIDS then it is to use a condom...go figure out that logic.

i also think that when it comes to personal loss or a tragedy a person of faith will lift their hands up and say it was gods will and thy are blessed for god is teaching them a lesson in life.
as if a supreme being is actually concerned with their daily lives

i think humans, over all, have an undue sense of importance...
that is why religion has been "remarkably resilient".
imho

 

[Oneatatime]

i disagree here, think of haiti for example, certain religious people blamed the haitians for being devil worshippers, and even with 9/11 certain religious people blamed the acceptance of homosexuality and abortion in the US...
sure it's a disgusting notion but who in their right mind would think or believe such a thing...
some even go as far as saying it is better to get AIDS then it is to use a condom...go figure out that logic.

i also think that when it comes to personal loss or a tragedy a person of faith will lift their hands up and say it was gods will and thy are blessed for god is teaching them a lesson in life.
as if a supreme being is actually concerned with their daily lives

i think humans, over all, have an undue sense of importance...
that is why religion has been "remarkably resilient".
imho

There are some people who will blame others for their misfortune or alternatively claim that God was testing their faith. This excuse making is really unique to religion and one only needs to look at the women who returns to their abusive partner time and time again professing that it was hers or someone elses fault that he became violent and hit her. The problem would appear to be partially due to an inability to act on evidence that a faith or trust is misplaced.

 

[newhope101]

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

The bible speaks of the disciples being angered at a non disciple preaching the word and performing miracles, I think. Jesus said this one is also acceptable.

I truly believe that religion is around to guide those that are not by nature good of heart. If any Deity showed themselves they would get a bunch of people doing what they need to do to live on but not out of love for the creator. That kind of following the faith would have nothing to do with the right heart condition. By not leaving proof of existence God can see whom is good of heart and who is not. It may be seen as a bad marriage in that you want your partner to be with you because they love you. The big house, the lifestyle are aside and added benieits. You would not like your partner there only because of what they can get out of you.

The good news is that I believe many religions/faiths will have to pass at least one more huge test. That being the revelation that most people will be offered another chance at salvation in the resurrection and it will not be 'exclusive' to any religion. This will be hard to take for some. It is these religionists that will be likened to the parable of the slave. The last slave to come and work late in the day was given equal payment as those slaves that had worked long hours. The other slaves said to the master this was not fair as they had toiled for much longer. The master replied that they were wicked slaves. They were wicked because they got what they agreed to work for and then complained that the master was kind to the last slave and gave him equal pay. You see it is NOT about who you are, or what religion you follow. It is about what's in your heart.

The other factor, is that Satan challenged God's rule by alledging such things as Gods followers only follow for what they get out of it. eg Job. Hence God wants us to show Satan and all the angels that people will follow and love God even when they are unsure of what benefit they will get out of it. This is a JW belief which I think is valid. God knows the world has been deceived and yet many serve God the best way they know how be it a practiced religion or their own thing. God can read your heart and knows where your motivation to serve is coming from.

The third factor is this. I do believe there will be scientific or some irrefuteable evidence for God, sooner or later, and this will be part of an enlightened age where faith will not be a requirement. We will know for sure and most of the dead will get another crack at eternal life.

 

[waitasec]

There are some people who will blame others for their misfortune or alternatively claim that God was testing their faith. This excuse making is really unique to religion and one only needs to look at the women who returns to their abusive partner time and time again professing that it was hers or someone elses fault that he became violent and hit her.

exactly. it's as if where there is lack of confidence in one area, there is over compensation in another...

a redistribution of esteem, if you will.

 

[Corkscrew]

Hi! In fact, there are a lot of evidences of God's existence. Interestingly, how Bible itself says about this: For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they [those who deny God's existence] are inexcusable"(Romans 1:20) By watching God's creation and reading his word, person's faith gets stronger. The person has to build up his faith.

Your argument is circular; you are referencing a book that could have been fabricated by man.

 

[Starsoul]

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

Maybe he holds dearer the people who believe without the physical presence of miraculous evidences, in more regard ? And maybe it takes a whole new journey of spiritual enlightenment, bearing the pains of which are more worthy and precious in His eyes,along with, really required by us?

And Maybe the people of the yester centuries were not imaginative enough to visualize imaginations and hence needed a few glimpses of grandeur, and maybe the people of these days are very inventively imaginative because of the development and resources available, and only need to grow spiritually?

 

[Corkscrew]

Maybe he holds dearer the people who believe without the physical presence of miraculous evidences, in more regard ? And maybe it takes a whole new journey of spiritual enlightenment, bearing the pains of which are more worthy and precious in His eyes,along with, really required by us?

And Maybe the people of the yester centuries were not imaginative enough to visualize imaginations and hence needed a few glimpses of grandeur, and maybe the people of these days are very inventively imaginative because of the development and resources available, and only need to grow spiritually?

I’m not sure I agree with your analyses. With today’s understanding of the universe, I believe people are a lot more skeptical. I think a miracle today would go a whole lot farther than a miracle back then.
Back then they probably thought of the moon orbiting the earth as a miracle. In fact, without any knowledge of physics, how could they tell what was a miracle and what was not. They could have concluded the parting of the Red Sea as a natural occurrence.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

Faith puts you in the creation position. The position with no power. The position where you cannot control your own fate or destiny or whatever you want to call it. Faith is leaving that in the hands of something that you don't really know anything about. If you did, there would be no reason to have faith, because you would know if you wanted to put your trust in it or not. The point is not knowing. Remove that, as you are suggesting, and you destroy the purpose of faith.

 

[Corkscrew]

Faith puts you in the creation position. The position with no power. The position where you cannot control your own fate or destiny or whatever you want to call it. Faith is leaving that in the hands of something that you don't really know anything about. If you did, there would be no reason to have faith, because you would know if you wanted to put your trust in it or not. The point is not knowing. Remove that, as you are suggesting, and you destroy the purpose of faith.

What is so important about not controlling my own destiny? And I don’t understand how that can possibly happen. Are you saying that if I have faith, decisions I make will no longer influence my destiny? This assertion makes life sound rather pointless.

 

[Starsoul]

I’m not sure I agree with your analyses. With today’s understanding of the universe, I believe people are a lot more skeptical. I think a miracle today would go a whole lot farther than a miracle back then.
Back then they probably thought of the moon orbiting the earth as a miracle. In fact, without any knowledge of physics, how could they tell what was a miracle and what was not. They could have concluded the parting of the Red Sea as a natural occurrence.

Thats the thing with a miracle, it has a very distinctive touch of Super natural and un-natural too, things that don't happen in normal day to day life.

And to be honest, I'm kind of really bored with the 'to the moon and back', all the science and gadgets by now, the way I think, I would want definitely more out of life than all these explorations and blah, you just get over it all one day, and when you do, you're like' is this why i was here?' and that question when really hits you, makes you search for the reason why you're here,and for me, If the reason and purpose wasn't this big (as my religion Islam has), I would've been quite unable to motivate myself to get anywhere in life, I just need to live for a bigger purpose and having faith to dream the visibly impossible and be always motivated is a rare phenomenon with divine religions.

Since one could always think 'ive read ( scriptures) it so many times,it doesn't interest me anymore" and yet it aint true, you read the word of God over and over and you just fall in love with it over and over again, its just a never ending spiritual journey which reveals something new everytime you open it. And THAt is what keeps you going, not the inventions of this world, not for me atleast. Your search for belief begins when somehow you get over all the same old routine of life, or you get really cold, or withdrawn spiritually,and realize one day that you need to be free spirited n like a kid again to live. That is my opinion, people would have different opinions

 

[strikeviperMKII]

What is so important about not controlling my own destiny?

It's a difficult question to answer and I don't think it's one I can answer either.

And I don’t understand how that can possibly happen. Are you saying that if I have faith, decisions I make will no longer influence my destiny? This assertion makes life sound rather pointless.

Pointless...well, it does seem that way. Is it pointless because you can't see where life is going? If so, then ask yourself if you know where life should go. Ask yourself if you every knew that.
If the answer is no (which it should be), then how can life be pointless just because you don't know where it is going?

 

[Hawkins]

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

Because it is proven that presenting all the evidence is not the working way. Adam got all the evidence but fell. Adam failed due to the lack of faith, in God's absence for awhile, he failed to believe in Word of God.

Only faith shall work, in God's absence for awhile people with faith will believe in the Word of God.

 

[not yet now]

faith...trust
in terms of what bring fulfillment to one's hopes
as in the bible
(ERV) Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see.
(GW) Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.
so this version of trust or faith is about what it takes to attain
one's best hopes and proof that it will manifest in god's time
for those who practice the balance of spiritual zeal and spiritual patience
as sell are slow to anger
and are called according to god's purposes
which at times can involve both rebuking the wicked
which might or might not bring the good change hoped for quickly
but if not quickly it will work together all for the good
plus avoid the stain of others wickedness on one's own soul....
plus tho too where one might be persecuted by those of this world
and even
hmmm
crucified
according to the will of one's maker

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why is it so important to God that we believe in him without any direct evidence of his existence? The Bible states that he parted the Red Sea and did all sorts of other miraculous things. The people who witnessed these events never had to rely on faith; they had the benefit of having his powers demonstrated to them first hand. If I were to witness the same things that these people saw, I too would be onboard with the whole thing. But no, I have to rely on words written in a book that obviously could have been made up by man. If you think about it, it is man that I must have faith in, not God. Is there something more than meets the eye with this “faith” thing; because, it sounds to me like just a convenient excuse when you don’t have any hard evidence.

Creation is evidence and a lot of creation is hard.

Jesus also had the evidence that he logically reasoned on from the Hebrew OT Scriptures in order to base his teachings.

Although the Bible is written on fragile paper and has had many enemies throughout the centuries trying to destroy it from within and without the religious world no one can get rid of the Bible.

No one can stop the distribution of the Bible on an earth-wide scale,
and rapid translation into many languages has sped up that process.

No one can get rid of God's people even under ban.
No one can stop the global proclaiming of the good news of God's kingdom as foretold at Matthew 24v14.