Why does god withhold evidence?

[love]

If the god of the bible exsist, why does he not provide everyone with the evidence they require in order to accept his actuality? Why is it fair for god to hold nonbelievers "accountable" for refusing to accept his reality when he has the ability to present them with the evidence they need to be convinced? If it is god's primary desire that we all come to know him, come to love him and come to be with him in paradise, why does he not make his presence incontrovertibly apparent to everyone? Is it not the case that god withholds evidence that would cause some people to believe that he exists?

Most of us are born with 5 physical senses, i. e.,touch, smell, taste, sight, and hearing.
I believe that a person truly seeking God could find Him with only one of these senses.

One day even the spiritually blind will see.

 

[Booko]

Where are we going?

I don't know. And I can't figure out why I'm in this handbasket either.

 

[Super Universe]

God does not prove His existence to us because that would violate the entire reason for this dimension, the earth, and biological beings to exist.

The material dimension exists to give sentient energy (souls) a way to learn and evolve into mature universal beings who know right from wrong and have learned the consequences of certain actions and inaction. This dimension is a perfectly safe playground for us. There is nothing here that can harm a soul.
We come here to get away from our Father and develop our individuality.

It is God's desire that we all come to know him but not as humans. The human body is much too frail and could never travel to heaven anyway. The body is supposed to break down and fail.

God's true desire is that all souls will come to know Him and return to heaven. He's not in a hurry and He's not worried one bit about it.

 

[LogDog]

Yes!

In the same way you mean to tell me that a pea exploded, all of its gooey innards coalesced into other forms of gooiness, eventually combining again to form little Pacman-like protocells that ate other Pacman-like protocells to become bigger and more complex Pacman-like lifeforms that ate and grew and ate and adapted to become Donkey Kongs that eventually split into humans.

Anything is absurd when written so.

What's absurd about your simplification?

 

[LogDog]

Why do we die? Why don't we live forever? Do you have any answers? Why are we here? Where are we going?

If answers like "we die because we die." "It's not possible to live forever." "Because we are." And "Somewhere" don't satisfy you, I suppose I could fabricate something based on what's pleasing for me to imagine - sort of like what religion does?

 

[wizanda]

You mean to say there's a cosmic zombie who was his own father?

Mat 5:16
(16) Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


who'll let me live forever because I symbolically eat his flesh?

Gen 9:4
(4) But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

and telepathically tell him I accept him as my master?

Mal 1:6-7
(6) A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?
(7) Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.

so he can remove an evil force from my soul that is present in humanity?

Eze 18:19-20
(19) Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
(20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake? to eat from a magical tree

Job 1:7
(7) And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Really? How do you know this to be the case? Just a feeling? Why?

Basically that is saying God doesn’t withhold evidence the Church that teaches it does…and what you just said is Christian ideology and why I get so offended, having now read the Bible for my self.

Isa 28:7
(7) But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

What's absurd about your simplification?

Nothing! Only the wording.

 

[TheGreaterGame]

If answers like "we die because we die." "It's not possible to live forever." "Because we are." And "Somewhere" don't satisfy you, I suppose I could fabricate something based on what's pleasing for me to imagine - sort of like what religion does?

Are feelings such as guilt, happiness, joy, and sadness merely phisiology & biology or do they come from somewhere else?

 

[may]

:bow:
You must be someone very great in the heaven's?.... as i was born there, yet don't know how you expect any matter to enter it?....
so in that statement....
you are Saying God withheld the evidence?....
Christ-i-ans are anything to do with Christ?....
That Heaven it self could need defending against Babylon?
That Christ-i-ans have correct anointing oil on them to even be a Christ (anointed one)?

the annointed ones will rule with Jesus in the heavenly kingdom and they will be kings and priests and there will be 144,000 of them , but that hope is not for me because my hope is to inherit the paradise earth along with a GREAT NUMBERLESS CROWD matthew 5;5 revelation 7;9-10 psalm 37;11, 29Jehovah has decided that he wants 144,000 to be with Jesus in heaven , this number is pre-determened by God , but the GREAT CROWD who will inherit the earth are numberless, it could be that some of those chosen by God to go to heaven will fall away from the faith , so then God will chose someone else . but the NUMBER of 144,000 is what God wants up there . the number is pre-set, the individuals are not . ..............LOL you were born on the earth not in heaven, LOL ....the only one that was born in heaven was Jesus , he had a pre-human life in the heavens before he came down to the earth , and if anyone was born in heaven and they are down here now on the earth ,it would have to be one of these that Jesus (michael)threw out of heaven .
And war broke out in heaven: Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but it did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. revelation 12;7-9.....................

 

[may]

Are feelings such as guilt, happiness, joy, and sadness merely phisiology & biology or do they come from somewhere else?

some of those things come from the most high
On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. ..... Galations 5;22-23
But I say, Keep walking by spirit and YOU will carry out no fleshly desire at all. Galations 5;16

 

[may]

Basically that is saying God doesn’t withhold evidence the Church that teaches it does…and what you just said is Christian ideology and why I get so offended, having now read the Bible for my self.

Isa 28:7
(7) But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

yes and drunkeness makes them lose their focus , and they have no vision at all
(Jeremiah 5:31) The prophets themselves actually prophesy in falsehood; and as for the priests, they go subduing according to their powers. And my own people have loved [it] that way; and what will YOU men do in the finale of it?"

 

[may]

One day even the spiritually blind will see.

many even today are now nolonger spiritually blind they see things very clearly indeed . as Isaiah 35;5-6 says ,
At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness. ............... but of cause there will be a physical healing as well in the future paradise earth . Great blessings are in store for those who are repentant towards God .

(Psalm 146:8) Jehovah is opening [the eyes of] the blind ones; Jehovah is raising up the ones bowed down; Jehovah is loving the righteous ones.
​

(Isaiah 42:16) And I will make the blind ones walk in a way that they have not known; in a roadway that they have not known I shall cause them to tread. I shall turn a dark place before them into light, and rugged terrain into level land. These are the things that I will do for them, and I will not leave them."
(Isaiah 29:18) And in that day the deaf ones will certainly hear the words of the book, and out of the gloom and out of the darkness even the eyes of the blind ones will see.

 

[may]

God's true desire is that all souls will come to know Him and return to heaven. He's not in a hurry and He's not worried one bit about it. [/SIZE]

matthew 5;5
Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,​

And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. psalm 37;11
(Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: "I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
(Revelation 21:3) With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: "Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.

 

[may]

If answers like "we die because we die." "It's not possible to live forever." "Because we are." And "Somewhere" don't satisfy you, I suppose I could fabricate something based on what's pleasing for me to imagine - sort of like what religion does?

or we could even find the answers in the bible . without the pre-concieved ideas of manmade things that cloud the thought of the bible .

 

[LogDog]

or we could even find the answers in the bible . without the pre-concieved ideas of manmade things that cloud the thought of the bible .

Is it your position that the bible itself is not manmade?

 

[wizanda]

Rev 16:15[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT](15) Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed are they that watched, and kept their garments, lest they walk naked and we see your shame.
:sorry1:

 

[matthew.william]

Maybe god could provide the myopic with the evidence they need. If god truly wants us all to know him, love him and come to be with him, he should have the power to make this happen, unless of course he's not all-powerful, really doesn't care or isn't real.

In my humble opinion, God does not simply reveal himself because He WANTS people to know Him. If He simply just showed up on 60 Minutes one day, would anyone seek Him or His character or will out?
Imagine those Christmas gifts hidden up in the closet when you were a kid. You knew there was something there. You would take them down, shake them, do anything to figure out what it could be. If your parents simply told you what they were, you wouldn't have figured out all the intricate details in the investigation.

In short, God doesn't simply show up because He wants people to seek out all the details about Him. I believe He has left ample evidence of a higher being, but the search as to it's nature and character is important and necessary, not to mention a necessity for free will.

~matthew.william~

 

[LogDog]

In my humble opinion, God does not simply reveal himself because He WANTS people to know Him. If He simply just showed up on 60 Minutes one day, would anyone seek Him or His character or will out?
Imagine those Christmas gifts hidden up in the closet when you were a kid. You knew there was something there. You would take them down, shake them, do anything to figure out what it could be. If your parents simply told you what they were, you wouldn't have figured out all the intricate details in the investigation.

In short, God doesn't simply show up because He wants people to seek out all the details about Him. I believe He has left ample evidence of a higher being, but the search as to it's nature and character is important and necessary, not to mention a necessity for free will.

~matthew.william~

Is it your position that even though "god is love" he'd rather I experience eternity in hell (whatever your understanding of hell is) than come to my aid? Why does he discriminate and not provide everyone with their own form of "ample evidence"?

 

[Popeyesays]

Is it your position that even though "god is love" he'd rather I experience eternity in hell (whatever your understanding of hell is) than come to my aid? Why does he discriminate and not provide everyone with their own form of "ample evidence"?

"Love Me that I may love thee. For if thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. know this, o servant."
Baha`u'llah

I don't buy the concept of damnation, and it mostly amuses me that others do. You're raising a strawman.

Regards,
Scott

 

[matthew.william]

Is it your position that even though "god is love" he'd rather I experience eternity in hell (whatever your understanding of hell is) than come to my aid? Why does he discriminate and not provide everyone with their own form of "ample evidence"?

No, I think he'd rather have you search him out than just deny His existence, and whine about Him at the same time. I have been provided with the exact same evidence that you have and I didn't need "aid" (meet Him face to face, or even show himself in physical form to me). I was given the evidence, I searched for a long time, and found God to be a truth. It took work, and the work made me who I am, and I am a better person from all the searching. God wants you to seek knowledge. You want God to pander to skeptical nature by showing Himself to you, or give give you some concrete evidence of His existence which you could swallow. The question is, would you then believe?

I have found in a lot of atheists (not all, I repeat, NOT ALL) that the general viewpoint on God is this:

1) God does not exist
2) I hate Him

~matthew.william~

P.S. What does hell have anything to do with knowing whether God exists or not?