Why does Hamas launch rockets from cities?

[Kilgore Trout]

Can there be any doubt of it?

Only if someone wants to have their head removed from their body.

 

[Sunstone]

Only if someone wants to have their head removed from their body.

QED: There can be no reasonable doubt of the nobility, honor, and peacefulness of Hamas, for a headless body cannot reasonably doubt.

Your logic, sir, is impeccable!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

QED: There can be no reasonable doubt of the nobility, honor, and peacefulness of Hamas, for a headless body cannot reasonably doubt.

Your logic, sir, is impeccable!

It's gratifying to see you've kept your head regarding this issue.

 

[dantech]

It's gratifying to see you've kept your head regarding this issue.

It takes a little while for Hamas to get to Colorado. Give it time!




ps: I'm next...

 

[Alceste]

Extremism has a way of inspiring even greater extremism. Like cancer, it runs amok. Sadly, I would be surprised if Hamas did not become more extremist as time goes on.

Nothing motivates a true believer like persecution.

 

[icehorse]

Nothing motivates a true believer like persecution.

This is an excellent point, and it's quite distinct from Israel-bashing.

I'll ask again, why does it fall solely on Israel to deal with Hamas? Where's the UN? Where are moderate regional Arab leaders?

 

[LuisDantas]

I'll ask again, why does it fall solely on Israel to deal with Hamas?

To the best of my understanding, because only Israel and the Palestinians make it a point of being there.

Where's the UN?

Busy being ignored, apparently.

Where are moderate regional Arab leaders?

Abbas is supposed to be one of them. It seems that they are being ignored as well, for reasons not entirely clear.

 

[icehorse]

Originally Posted by icehorse
"I'll ask again, why does it fall solely on Israel to deal with Hamas?"

Luis:
"To the best of my understanding, because only Israel and the Palestinians make it a point of being there."

Much of the world seems ready to condemn Israel. They are not being so neutral when all they have to do is talk. Talk, as we know, is cheap. Everyone who's critical of Israel is enjoying relative safety while they sit back and criticize. Anyone who doesn't like how Israel is handling avowed jihadists ought to offer to help.

 

[LuisDantas]

Much of the world seems ready to condemn Israel.

I would hope so. I hope to consistently condemn anyone, particularly countries, that make a point of relying on militarism and revenge to survive.

They are not being so neutral

Neutral as in indifferent? What kind of neutrality would fit in dealing with such a situation, and why?

when all they have to do is talk. Talk, as we know, is cheap. Everyone who's critical of Israel is enjoying relative safety while they sit back and criticize.

Agreed.

Of course, the same can be said of silently allowing Israel to do as they please, as well as of assuming that Hamas or even Gaza is an army of raving, dangerous lunatics that earned nothing better than termination.

For that reason, there is a moral duty to find out what the reality is, and how to best handle it.

Anyone who doesn't like how Israel is handling avowed jihadists ought to offer to help.

Indeed.

 

[Alceste]

This is an excellent point, and it's quite distinct from Israel-bashing.

I'll ask again, why does it fall solely on Israel to deal with Hamas? Where's the UN? Where are moderate regional Arab leaders?

They are trying to mediate peace talks and negotiations leading to a two state solution. I can only assume they have decided dropping bombs on Palestinian children is not conducive to their goals in the region.

 

[icehorse]

They are trying to mediate peace talks and negotiations leading to a two state solution. I can only assume they have decided dropping bombs on Palestinian children is not conducive to their goals in the region.

Hi Alceste,

Ultimately I think we agree. I would most like to see the violence stop instantly, and a dignified and humane solution negotiated for all.

I also think it's possible for Israel to go way past halfway to achieve this end.

I also, also think that we should all be honest and admit that we're asking Israel to behave to a standard higher than any country ever has. Would you agree that the world is asking Israel to behave in an extraordinary way (as relative to the standards of the rest of the world)?

That bit of framing or context would make a HUGE difference in these discussions, and probably in discussions around the world.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I also think it's possible for Israel to go way past halfway to achieve this end.

I am reminded of …

Yes, it is a one-side caricature (as is true of most political cartoons) but it nevertheless captures a reality that is simply dismissed by far too many.

​

 

[LuisDantas]

I also, also think that we should all be honest and admit that we're asking Israel to behave to a standard higher than any country ever has. Would you agree that the world is asking Israel to behave in an extraordinary way (as relative to the standards of the rest of the world)?

Remind me, please, why you feel so.

 

[icehorse]

Well we could start with Hamas's standing charter. We are asking Israel to negotiate with an organization whose stated intent is to utterly destroy Israel.

The general lesson from history is that if you're getting your *** kicked, and you want peace, you surrender. You don't get to keep saying that your goal is to destroy your enemy.

 

[metis]

Which country would not use sufficient military force to stop a country or countries that has the fully stated intent of destroying you? Which country fights a war of defense whereas there's a seeking of "equivalency" in terms of the number killed? How many countries drop leaflets or call people by phone to tell them to move to safer locations? How many countries use proportionally as many smart bombs/missiles as Israel has in order to reduce civilian casualties? How many countries have gone along with one cease-fire after another whereas the other side continually violates them? How many countries would intentionally try to keep opposing casualties low whereas the other side makes it clear that it has the full intent on destroying you completely?

Please name them and in which war.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well we could start with Hamas's standing charter. We are asking Israel to negotiate with an organization whose stated intent is to utterly destroy Israel.

The general lesson from history is that if you're getting your *** kicked, and you want peace, you surrender. You don't get to keep saying that your goal is to destroy your enemy.

And how does that connect to the idea that Israel is being demanded beyond the expected levels?

 

[Alceste]

Hi Alceste,

Ultimately I think we agree. I would most like to see the violence stop instantly, and a dignified and humane solution negotiated for all.

I also think it's possible for Israel to go way past halfway to achieve this end.

I also, also think that we should all be honest and admit that we're asking Israel to behave to a standard higher than any country ever has. Would you agree that the world is asking Israel to behave in an extraordinary way (as relative to the standards of the rest of the world)?

That bit of framing or context would make a HUGE difference in these discussions, and probably in discussions around the world.

I ask every country to respect the sanctity of human life and international law. I don't think the situation in the occupied territories has any parallels in recent history, so I disagree with your opinion that Israel is being held to an exceptional standard.

There are perhaps some similarities with Northern Ireland and South Africa. I don't think you'll find that progressives went easy on either country. On the contrary, international pressure eventually led them to abandon racist policies that caused conflict and allow the oppressed majority in each reason to live with dignity and autonomy.

 

[LuisDantas]

Which country would not use sufficient military force to stop a country or countries that has the fully stated intent of destroying you?

Perhaps one that has reason to doubt that stopping them is a matter of military force.

Or one that has undeniable military advantage and by any reasonable estimation will remain that way indefinitely.

Which country fights a war of defense whereas there's a seeking of "equivalency" in terms of the number killed?

I do not know and I do not care. It is still managing intentional deaths that could be avoided.

How many countries drop leaflets or call people by phone to tell them to move to safer locations? How many countries use proportionally as many smart bombs/missiles as Israel has in order to reduce civilian casualties? How many countries have gone along with one cease-fire after another whereas the other side continually violates them? How many countries would intentionally try to keep opposing casualties low whereas the other side makes it clear that it has the full intent on destroying you completely?

Please name them and in which war.

I refuse to give such questions serious consideration, sorry.

 

[Alceste]

I am reminded of …

Yes, it is a one-side caricature (as is true of most political cartoons) but it nevertheless captures a reality that is simply dismissed by far too many.

​

You have not seen the nationalists in Israel chanting death to all Arabs, or heard prominent government officials in Israel promoting driving all the Arabs out and Jews taking over the whole region?

The trick is not to feed the histrionics, IMO. I am aware of the genocidal undertones on both sides of the conflict, but I choose to believe that even racists are capable of diplomacy and rational self interest, and even racists prefer not to have their own children on the receiving end of bombs.

 

[Alceste]

Which country would not use sufficient military force to stop a country or countries that has the fully stated intent of destroying you? Which country fights a war of defense whereas there's a seeking of "equivalency" in terms of the number killed? How many countries drop leaflets or call people by phone to tell them to move to safer locations? How many countries use proportionally as many smart bombs/missiles as Israel has in order to reduce civilian casualties? How many countries have gone along with one cease-fire after another whereas the other side continually violates them? How many countries would intentionally try to keep opposing casualties low whereas the other side makes it clear that it has the full intent on destroying you completely?

Please name them and in which war.

We basically don't bomb anybody in Canada, at least until Afghanistan. When we last had a domestic indigenous uprising we jailed the activists and hung their leader.