Why does Hamas launch rockets from cities?

[icehorse]

It's relevant because the two ideas are no where near equivalent. When most people hear the phrase "ethnic cleansing" they think "genocide". Again, two entirely different ideas. Often those who use "ethnic cleansing" deliberately hope people will think "genocide".

In other words, the phrase is often used as part of a dishonest manipulation.

 

[Prophet]

It's relevant because the two ideas are no where near equivalent. When most people hear the phrase "ethnic cleansing" they think "genocide". Again, two entirely different ideas. Often those who use "ethnic cleansing" deliberately hope people will think "genocide".

In other words, the phrase is often used as part of a dishonest manipulation.

Did you happen to read the post I was responding to?

 

[icehorse]

I did. I understood your sarcasm (not bad).

 

[Prophet]

Well when I used the phrase "ethnic cleansing" there was no discernible intention on my part to characterize a forced migration as a genocide. Rather, I was characterizing CMike's prescribed leveling of Gaza as a potential genocide. It may bear saying that CMike has advocated for religious genocides in debate against me, using reasoning that reduces to murders being justified when sponsored by G_d.

 

[Koldo]

Call it faith that Palestinians are ordinary human beings, and as such will behave predictably. (As they are at this very moment.)

By predictably, you certainly mean according to your predictions, right?

Why do you believe your predictions are accurate on this case?

 

[LuisDantas]

Once again it's just absurd.

It seems that enough force wasn't used by Israel. If enough force was used then Hamas would have stopped firing rockets a long time ago.

It's because Israel fights with one arm tied behing it's back that it can't defeat the enemy.

Any other country under similar circumstances would have virtually leveled gaza by now.

P.S. There is no Palestine. There never was a muslim independent state of palestine.

CMike, are you aware that of all the statements in that post the only one that approaches the capability of being taken seriously is the very first one ("Once again it is just absurd")?

I believe you are not trying to be ironic, but it is often hard to tell.

In this case, it is hard to tell whether you truly have faith in a pure militaristic approach (going by your posting history I assume that you do) and whether you truly think it is a relevant matter whether "there is" or ever was a "Palestine" (again, you seem to be consistent in your belief that it is a Big Deal, for reasons that are still a mystery to me).

If your posts are meant to be understood as opposed to being just an expression of passion, you may want to consider elaborating them more and giving more (and different) support for your statements.

 

[CMike]

Well when I used the phrase "ethnic cleansing" there was no discernible intention on my part to characterize a forced migration as a genocide. Rather, I was characterizing CMike's prescribed leveling of Gaza as a potential genocide. It may bear saying that CMike has advocated for religious genocides in debate against me, using reasoning that reduces to murders being justified when sponsored by G_d.

Link?

 

[Alceste]

By predictably, you certainly mean according to your predictions, right?

Why do you believe your predictions are accurate on this case?

My predictions are based on an awareness of how similar conflicts have been resolved in the past (and how they haven't). Nobody can be sure their predictions are accurate, even the IDF and the Israeli government. At least my suggestions don't require any killing of civilians. And we should already have noticed that the current tactic is ineffective.

 

[Koldo]

My predictions are based on an awareness of how similar conflicts have been resolved in the past (and how they haven't). Nobody can be sure their predictions are accurate, even the IDF and the Israeli government.

Your prediction is based on the unfounded assumption that palestinians can convince their extremists to step down.

At least my suggestions don't require any killing of civilians.

Your suggestion may lead to a war being waged inside Gaza between Hamas and PA.

And we should already have noticed that the current tactic is ineffective.

It depends on what you mean by 'ineffective'. The fact is that Israel has kept its losses to a minimum while disrupting Hamas.
Depending on how Israel is able to manage its diplomatic relationships, we may finally see other countries taking more a definitive effort to put an end to this conflict.

 

[Prophet]

Link?

However, there were some nations such as Amalek that were so evil that they were destroyed as commanded by G-D.

Short memory?

I have great comfort that we don't hold the same positions.

As I stated the whole nation was evil.

Let me add to it. There was also Sodom and Gamorah. Also, G-D destroyed almost everything in the world during the flood at Noah's time.

Amalek earned special privledges.

Yes, let us also not forget that God hates homosexuals.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why do you assume the PA would be able to convince Hamas to act differently?

Call it faith that Palestinians are ordinary human beings, and as such will behave predictably.

This is more than a little instructive:

Hamas = Palestinians; just ordinary folk doing predictable things.​

That's not faith; it's ignorant folly … not to mention an insult to Palestinians.

 

[CMike]

Originally Posted by CMike
Once again it's just absurd.

It seems that enough force wasn't used by Israel. If enough force was used then Hamas would have stopped firing rockets a long time ago.

It's because Israel fights with one arm tied behing it's back that it can't defeat the enemy.

Any other country under similar circumstances would have virtually leveled gaza by now.

P.S. There is no Palestine. There never was a muslim independent state of palestine.

CMike, are you aware that of all the statements in that post the only one that approaches the capability of being taken seriously is the very first one ("Once again it is just absurd")?

I believe you are not trying to be ironic, but it is often hard to tell.

In this case, it is hard to tell whether you truly have faith in a pure militaristic approach (going by your posting history I assume that you do) and whether you truly think it is a relevant matter whether "there is" or ever was a "Palestine" (again, you seem to be consistent in your belief that it is a Big Deal, for reasons that are still a mystery to me).

If your posts are meant to be understood as opposed to being just an expression of passion, you may want to consider elaborating them more and giving more (and different) support for your statements.

There is no choice but a military one.

The arab side wants the jewish side DEAD.

There is nothing to negotiate. Israel can't negotiate them killing half the jews.

They want the jews dead because they exist. It's not rational.

There are millions of miles of land for the jews in Israel to go to if they really wante to.

There are 22 arab states that make up about the size of the US.

There is one jewish state in the world about the size of NJ, a very small state.

If someone is coming to kill you, you have duty to get up earlier and kill him first.

The problem is that Israel is too concerned about world opinion which will condemn the jewish state no matter what it does.

It needs to fight without being shackled at the same time.

 

[RitalinOhD]

Short memory?



Yes, let us also not forget that God hates homosexuals.

And judges you for masterbating.

 

[CMike]

Well said.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152275776172689&set=vb.19459912688&type=2&theater

 

[Alceste]

This is more than a little instructive:

Hamas = Palestinians; just ordinary folk doing predictable things.​

That's not faith; it's ignorant folly … not to mention an insult to Palestinians.

That is a completely inaccurate interpretation of my post. Try reading the last few pages again for comprehension.

 

[metis]

Depending on how Israel is able to manage its diplomatic relationships, we may finally see other countries taking more a definitive effort to put an end to this conflict.

This would be great, but don't bet big money on this. Here's why.

Hamas is a religious/political organization that has much more of a similarity to ISIS than it does to Abbas' Palestinian Authority. It's roots are based on Islamic fundamentalism that believes that shari'a must be established in all Islamic or former Islamic areas and, eventually, throughout the world.

Do they actually believe that? As far as the leadership is concerned, yes, and they state as such, although they don't talk or write about the fact that they believe that world domination will eventually be theirs. Where does this doctrine come from? The Hadith, which are the teachings of Mohammed, which is a book second only to the Qur'an.

Hamas will never, repeat never, give up on destroying Israel, and even their own charter states as such. For some who seemingly just ignore that, probably thinking this is just political rhetoric, I got news for them-- it ain't.

Hamas wants a victory of some type at this point because if they don't get something, they're in danger of losing support, which is already starting to happen. Eighteen "Israeli spies" were killed yesterday with no public trial, and more are supposedly going to be executed soon. Were these really Israeli spies? I would suggest that the likelihood of most or all of them being so is about as likely as me becoming the next Pope. This is an age-old trick that accomplishes this: they can eliminate some who they feel may oppose them while placating their own populace by justifying these executions by claiming they're Israeli spies. It also intimidates others into submission, not willing to even take the slightest chance they may be viewed as not completely supporting Hamas. This how these radical fundamentalists work.

Can Israel negotiate a settlement with Hamas? Unfortunately, the answer is no. How many times have we seen Hamas launch attacks against Israel over the years, knowing full well that Israel has to respond? Any negotiated settlement will just mean it will happen again in a year or two or so.

What does Hamas want short-term? The main thing is an end to the blockade, which Israel cannot agree with without committing suicide. Egypt, who certainly doesn't want Hamas to come out ahead here, cut off supplies arriving from Iran to Gaza, so the only other way of getting them in is through shipping in the Mediterranean. After being hit by over 7000 missiles/rockets, they've clearly seen the handwriting on the wall.

Israel has finally gotten to the point whereas even the former "peaceniks" now realize that Hamas will not give up; nor can Israel. Hamas either must be eliminated (unlikely at this time) or physically demilitarized. If this happens, the chances for far less conflict is actually fairly good. If it doesn't-- well, I really don't have to go any further, do I.

So, I do agree with you, sorry to be long-winded, and have a great weekend.

 

[icehorse]

I think that sooner or later the UN is going to have to step in and relieve Hamas of their duties - and that won't be a bloodless process

 

[metis]

I think that sooner or later the UN is going to have to step in and relieve Hamas of their duties - and that won't be a bloodless process

I would love to agree with you, but I'm really quite certain that the U.N. doesn't want to get militarily involved, plus Russia has a veto. Nice idea though.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Yes, Germany was bombed to ****. But the majority of occupied Europe was liberated by ground forces supported by air cover despite being full of Nazis. Is that not your understanding?

At the risk of thread derailment, I'm much more across this than recent events in Gaza.
Occupied Western Europe was liberated by ground forces supported by air cover. Air forces have never been capable of taking land, only in destruction.

However, it would be a mistake to think that deliberate and large scale strategic bombing of war targets in Allied countries did not occur. It would also be wrong to think that this did not cause a lot of civilian casualties, or that there was any doubt that it would.

Almost 70,000 French civilians were killed by Allied bombing of France.
After Italy's surrender, almost 50,000 Italians were killed in bombing raids in Northern Italy.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

Would you? Guerrilla warfare (aka asymmetric warfare) requires poorly armed combatants to make it difficult or impossible for the far better armed enemy combatants to pick them out from the civilian population. Whether in Vietnam, Latin America or the middle east, standing alone and in uniform in a field with a rocket launcher is simply retarded, unless your aim is a speedy and pointless death.

US Special Forces (commonly known as "the Green Berets") have in no small way defined what the phrase "guerilla warfare" means. For decades, countries like the US, Russia, the UK, France, etc., have sent special operational forces "behind enemy lines" or otherwise covertly inserted highly trained forces to train local forces and engage in guerilla warfare. Such methods have been so "successful" that when particular regimes or cartels have been overthrown using guerilla warfare, the "rebels" who were now out of a job became mercenaries for hire and/or instrumental in perpetuating violence, totalitarian regimes, illegal international dealings, etc.

This isn't a matter of poor, untrained, badly armed forces against vastly superior troops. Were this the case, then Israel could have slaughtered all enemies or otherwise neutralized them. Much of their restraint is because they will loose US support if they are too aggressive, and much of their aggression is due to US support.

Israel has a choice whether to make sincere efforts to avoid slaughtering civilians in their efforts to pick off combatants, just as American soldiers who murdered every man, woman and child in Vietnamese villages had.

As they could have done so, they've made that choice.

They have chosen the bloody road,paved with civilian corpses, since the risk of losing IDF combatants is far greater if you send soldiers in to kill specific human targets.

One of my central instructors was an active IDF soldier and is still IDF. Do you want to know how many of his friends were executed, tortured, or were killed because they were sent into territories rather than missiles/bombs? It is ridiculous to suppose that a country capable of wiping their enemies in the gaza strip and elsewhere, along with innocents, off the map have spent millions training some of the most advanced operators in the world with the most expensive equipment around so that they could have these operators sit tight while they used ordinance which would be far cheaper instead.

Also, it is in their interest to destroy a buildings in Gaza

Which is so very easy. It is so easy that a central research topic for US federal offices such as the FBI, ATF, CIA, Homeland security, etc., is the development of IE detectors capable of detecting peroxide-based explosives that are easily made, impossible to trace (given the availability of their components), and have been used across Europe, Asia, and the Americas by criminals, gangs, terrorists, gun nuts, etc. You don't think that a highly trained secret police or special operational force could rely on explosives technology that teenagers have used and that the most advanced organizations in the world believe to be a serious threat thanks to how untraceable they are couldn't simply destroy whatever they wished in areas where explosions are the norm and there are no forces capable of even beginning to look into who might be behind a seeming accidental detonation by terrorists?

As much as some like to believe one side is more rational than the other, both groups of combatants are behaving perfectly rationally, given that their aim is to kill each other as efficiently as possible, while avoiding being killed. Neither side gives a tinker's damn about killing civilians.

Both groups aim to kill, aim to avoid being killed, and are "trigger-happy" (to put it mildly). One group has vastly superior resources and actually could wipe out the other. A central reason for Israel's restraint is the support of the US and the US' support by other countries. This isn't the only factor, however. Regardless, the situation is more complex than simply "how can we kill the other guys as efficiently as possible with as little risk as possible?"