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Why does Hamas launch rockets from cities?

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Because building tunnels and launching rockets from populated areas not only makes them harder to destroy in return, but makes them virtually impossible to destroy without incurring civilian casualties amongst the Palestinians.

It's a win-win for Hamas: if Israel does not destroy the tunnels or the rocket launching sites or the storehouses of weapons, Hamas will use them to attack Israel and kill Israeli civilians. If Israel does destroy the tunnels or the rocket launching sites or the storehouses of weapons, Hamas gets to inundate the global media with propaganda about Israel killing Palestinian civilians, thus portraying Israel as evil in the eyes of uncritical media consumers in the West, and winning support and additional funding from sympathetic members of the global Muslim community.

Either way, Hamas gains, and at little real cost to themselves, since they can and will always build more weapons, and care nothing about spending the lives of the civilians they claim to be fighting for.

That all sounds reasonable until you ask how many civilians had hamas rockets killed, before Israel bombarded them.
And compare that to the number of civilians Israel has killed both before and since.

There is no reciprocity in your argument. Hamas has not attacked Israeli weapon storehouses and destroyed their attack capability. Or destroyed large areas of housing and schools. or attacked and killed children and families in Un safe schools.

Even our leader of the opposition in Parliament (a Jew himself) has openly attacked the Jewish state for what they have done.
And a Cabinet minister resigned because of lack of action by our government.
At least now we are reviewing and revising our supply of armaments, and more importantly, vital components, to Israel.

Israel has stored up a great deal of hate in Europe over this issue.

What Israel has done is regarded by all right thinking people as evil, because that is what it is.

It is nearly on a par with the Islamic State militants actions against minorities.

Jews must take at least some responsibility for what their government has done.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
That all sounds reasonable until you ask how many civilians had hamas rockets killed, before Israel bombarded them.
And compare that to the number of civilians Israel has killed both before and since.

There is no reciprocity in your argument. Hamas has not attacked Israeli weapon storehouses and destroyed their attack capability. Or destroyed large areas of housing and schools. or attacked and killed children and families in Un safe schools.

Even our leader of the opposition in Parliament (a Jew himself) has openly attacked the Jewish state for what they have done.
And a Cabinet minister resigned because of lack of action by our government.
At least now we are reviewing and revising our supply of armaments, and more importantly, vital components, to Israel.

Israel has stored up a great deal of hate in Europe over this issue.

What Israel has done is regarded by all right thinking people as evil, because that is what it is.

It is nearly on a par with the Islamic State militants actions against minorities.

Jews must take at least some responsibility for what their government has done.

What would you say Hamas's long term intentions are and what would you say Israel's long term intentions are?

As far as Europe goes, I'm searching for a label we can agree to - "progressives" perhaps? Are those the folks in Europe who are mad at Israel? If not, how would you categorize / name the Europeans who hold this view?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
It's true that the Gaza strip is heavily populated. It's also true that there are many sparsely populated areas in Gaza.

If Hamas cares about its citizens, why doesn't it build its tunnels and launch its rockets from de-populated areas?
Hi icehorse again

-Because they are in City called Gaza , they had no much land (small land)

-because they seiged , because Israel don't let them get airport or sea port , (isolated from the world ) like big prison .


I just wonder why some people , insist to put ALL the blame on Hamas .

how about the siege of Israel ? and racist regime of Israel ?

if we fair , Israel is terrorist regime/state , because it's aimed the civilians .
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
That all sounds reasonable until you ask how many civilians had hamas rockets killed, before Israel bombarded them.
And compare that to the number of civilians Israel has killed both before and since.

There is no reciprocity in your argument. Hamas has not attacked Israeli weapon storehouses and destroyed their attack capability. Or destroyed large areas of housing and schools. or attacked and killed children and families in Un safe schools.

So your argument is that Israel should not respond now because it has been fortunate in the success of its passive rocket defenses and in its intelligence thwarting Hamas attacks, and because not enough Jewish civilians have died to warrant response.

Hamas would certainly do those things if it could, and has tried to the best of its capabilities.

And Israel does not house weapons or secret attack tunnels in UN safe schools, or use civilian housing and hospitals as staging areas for artillery and other military actions. Nor does it use its civilian populace as human shields, or hide its fighters amongst the civilians in civilian homes. Whereas, that is precisely what Hamas does.

I cannot help but wonder if some radical French separatists decided to start lobbing rockets over the channel into England, would your country decide that it was not worth responding merely because the southern part of England has excellent bomb shelters that people can run to and hide in every couple of hours, and really, only a couple of people have died...?

Israel has stored up a great deal of hate in Europe over this issue.

Europeans have hated Jews for a long time before Israel came about. This issue is just the current handy excuse. Once a long-lasting cease-fire comes about, another excuse will be found.

Considering that anti-Semitism is on a fifty-year rising high in Europe, there are anti-Semitic riots, vandalism, and propaganda all over Europe, all over the right of the Jewish State to defend itself-- and this is happening not even 75 years after the Holocaust...?

I'm sure you'll forgive us if have trouble taking the moral judgments of Europe very seriously right now.

What Israel has done is regarded by all right thinking people as evil, because that is what it is.

And by "right thinking people," you mean, those who would prefer to see an independent and unfettered Palestinian state run by a radical Islamist terrorist group than to see a Jewish State that is willing to defend itself.

Perhaps "right thinking people" ought to be a little more critical in their consumption of Palestinian propaganda, and think a little bit more about the historical processes that prompted Jews to feel strongly that a Jewish State in our ancestral homeland could not wait, and whose existence must be protected vigorously.

It is nearly on a par with the Islamic State militants actions against minorities.

Israel has the most advanced military in the Middle East. Its forces are a powerhouse war machine. If it were truly as amoral and bloodthirsty as this sort of criticism paints it, Gaza would be a parking lot, and there would not be a Palestinian standing in any territory controlled by Israel. However, Israel not only has a million and a half Arab citizens, who are free to practice their own religions, and who have nearly total authority over most of their holy sites, and who vote and have representation in the Knesset; but Israel wages a careful war of inches and centimeters against the terrorists who attack it rather than simply wiping them out, civilian casualties be damned. Israel phones ahead and texts ahead to warn civilians to leave an area about to be bombed, it broadcasts evacuation warnings on the radio, and even during this conflict, it provides Gaza's civilians with electricity, water, and humanitarian aid, as well as taking Gaza's wounded for treatment in Israeli hospitals.

It is ludicrous and absurd to compare Israel to the Islamic State, which exemplifies extreme intolerance of other religions, which kills indiscriminately and on a much larger scale, and seek only to empower themselves as leadership of a theocratic fascist state. It is patently offensive, and is indeed anti-Semitic.

Jews must take at least some responsibility for what their government has done.

Most Jews are ready to critique the actions of the Israeli government when they disagree with it. The overwhelming majority of them understand that this is a long-provoked war of self-defense, and Israel is doing the best it can to minimize civilian casualties (always an inevitability in war), while also knowing that Hamas is doing its best to maximize them.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Hi icehorse again

-Because they are in City called Gaza , they had no much land (small land)

-because they seiged , because Israel don't let them get airport or sea port , (isolated from the world ) like big prison .

I just wonder why some people , insist to put ALL the blame on Hamas .

how about the siege of Israel ? and racist regime of Israel ?

if we fair , Israel is terrorist regime/state , because it's aimed the civilians .

Hi Godobeyer -

We always hear that the Gaza strip is small, and I agree it is.

But look at a map!!! There are many uninhabited areas in the Gaza strip - see for yourself!
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Hi Godobeyer -

We always hear that the Gaza strip is small, and I agree it is.

But look at a map!!! There are many uninhabited areas in the Gaza strip - see for yourself!

That is a very simplistic view.
no military strategist would place his forces and weapons in the open and in full view. The parts of the strip that are uninhabited, are so for a good reason. they are totally unsuitable or they are vital for growing crops.

From a military point of view Gaza is undefendable. There is nowhere in it that can not be hit from the sea the land and the air. Israel can and has done all three.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
So your argument is that Israel should not respond now because it has been fortunate in the success of its passive rocket defenses and in its intelligence thwarting Hamas attacks, and because not enough Jewish civilians have died to warrant response.

Hamas would certainly do those things if it could, and has tried to the best of its capabilities.

And Israel does not house weapons or secret attack tunnels in UN safe schools, or use civilian housing and hospitals as staging areas for artillery and other military actions. Nor does it use its civilian populace as human shields, or hide its fighters amongst the civilians in civilian homes. Whereas, that is precisely what Hamas does. [

In the post above I indicate the problem Gaza finds it self in ... it is totally undefendable... Nor does it have the capacity to make a serious attack on Israel, nor will it ever have.

So why does it make the feeble attacks that it does?
Certainly it has no prospect of victory.
Like rats in a trap it is reacting the only way it can through frustration.


I cannot help but wonder if some radical French separatists decided to start lobbing rockets over the channel into England, would your country decide that it was not worth responding merely because the southern part of England has excellent bomb shelters that people can run to and hide in every couple of hours, and really, only a couple of people have died...?

This same scenario has happened, with the IRA attacks on the English mainland and on our leaders and infrastructure. including the assassination of Lord Mountbatten, and the destruction of the entire commercial centre of Manchester. at no time did we uses major forces against them But used limited infantry patrols and check points. Although we are in a period of peace, reconciliation between the republicans and loyalists is very far from being resolved. But we are still working on it.



Europeans have hated Jews for a long time before Israel came about. This issue is just the current handy excuse. Once a long-lasting cease-fire comes about, another excuse will be found.

Considering that anti-Semitism is on a fifty-year rising high in Europe, there are anti-Semitic riots, vandalism, and propaganda all over Europe, all over the right of the Jewish State to defend itself-- and this is happening not even 75 years after the Holocaust...?

I'm sure you'll forgive us if have trouble taking the moral judgments of Europe very seriously right now.

In the UK before this latest "war" There was little if any visible anti-semitism.
Such as there was, concerned muslim extremists. Much the same is true in the rest of Europe.
However every time flare ups occur between Israel and her neighbours, a little more hate is generated and a few more people take sides.

And by "right thinking people," you mean, those who would prefer to see an independent and unfettered Palestinian state run by a radical Islamist terrorist group than to see a Jewish State that is willing to defend itself.

]Perhaps "right thinking people" ought to be a little more critical in their consumption of Palestinian propaganda, and think a little bit more about the historical processes that prompted Jews to feel strongly that a Jewish State in our ancestral homeland could not wait, and whose existence must be protected vigorously.

We see almost no Palestinian propaganda, not to say it is not available, But what we do see is live reports by the BBC. The BBC by is charter is not able to give opinion or promote bias. If it broadcasts the opinions of one side it must, and always does, balance that with opinion from the other side.

Israel has the most advanced military in the Middle East. Its forces are a powerhouse war machine. If it were truly as amoral and bloodthirsty as this sort of criticism paints it, Gaza would be a parking lot, and there would not be a Palestinian standing in any territory controlled by Israel. However, Israel not only has a million and a half Arab citizens, who are free to practice their own religions, and who have nearly total authority over most of their holy sites, and who vote and have representation in the Knesset; but Israel wages a careful war of inches and centimeters against the terrorists who attack it rather than simply wiping them out, civilian casualties be damned. Israel phones ahead and texts ahead to warn civilians to leave an area about to be bombed, it broadcasts evacuation warnings on the radio, and even during this conflict, it provides Gaza's civilians with electricity, water, and humanitarian aid, as well as taking Gaza's wounded for treatment in Israeli hospitals.

It is ludicrous and absurd to compare Israel to the Islamic State, which exemplifies extreme intolerance of other religions, which kills indiscriminately and on a much larger scale, and seek only to empower themselves as leadership of a theocratic fascist state. It is patently offensive, and is indeed anti-Semitic.

Israel in effect holds Gaza as an open prison. with every thing that that implies. Such freedoms as they have exist because of world opinion, and their own efforts, not the generosity of Israel.

It is now counter productive to wave the anti-Semitic flag every time an opposing opinion is unpalatable. That ploy has become a dead duck.

Most Jews are ready to critique the actions of the Israeli government when they disagree with it. The overwhelming majority of them understand that this is a long-provoked war of self-defense, and Israel is doing the best it can to minimize civilian casualties (always an inevitability in war), while also knowing that Hamas is doing its best to maximize them.

Israel are doing nothing to resolve the underlying causes of the problem. They use a mixture of punishment and sticking plaster to contain it, all the while expanding their own territories.

Like the northern Ireland situation , the problem will not go away by itself. There, the two sides neither like nor trust each other. However they have come to a beneficial working relationship, which may resolve into friendship in a few hundred years.

Israel has not even started on that journey. It may never be fortunate enough to complete it.
 
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Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
It's true that the Gaza strip is heavily populated. It's also true that there are many sparsely populated areas in Gaza.

If Hamas cares about its citizens, why doesn't it build its tunnels and launch its rockets from de-populated areas?


I think a more pertinent question to ask is why did Israel fire missiles into cities after falsely claiming that three Israeli teenagers were killed by Hamas when later evidence reveals that they were not (they were killed by a small 'rogue cell' who were not under the orders of Hamas).
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I think a more pertinent question to ask is why did Israel fire missiles into cities after falsely claiming that three Israeli teenagers were killed by Hamas when later evidence reveals that they were not (they were killed by a small 'rogue cell' who were not under the orders of Hamas).

Jokes on you because Israel has answered such rocket attacks out of Gaza when those three teenagers were still alive and well playing with their Willies over some youporn video.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Jokes on you because Israel has answered such rocket attacks out of Gaza when those three teenagers were still alive and well playing with their Willies over some youporn video.


I think you'll just believe anything you're told by Israel. It's almost like trying to communicate with a North Korean. Absolutely no glint of critical-thinking in the eyes whatsoever. And if what you say is true, then that makes it even worse since Israel shot first using the kidnapping as an excuse.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I think you'll just believe anything you're told by Israel. It's almost like trying to communicate with a North Korean. Absolutely no glint of critical-thinking in the eyes whatsoever. And if what you say is true, then that makes it even worse since Israel shot first using the kidnapping as an excuse.

Thank goodness all the retaliatory rocket attacks ever since 2006 are just a lie. And here i thought we are talking about a conflict. Turns out its all a lie.

And yes iam without critical thinking. All Hail Glorious Leader of Likud Benjamin Netanyahu! Death to the western imperialist pig dogs!

[youtube]7YLYx3hEsVc[/youtube]
The immortal revolutionary hymn: "Song of General Kim Il Sung" - YouTube

You just have to translate it to hebrew and change the picture of Kim Il Sung with Netanyahu.
It brings tears to my eyes.



LONG LIVE BIBI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LONG LIVE LIKUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MANSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
They wouldn't do like Israel and care about civilians. Hamas doesn't even care about their own civilians.
:clap

You always make us feel that we are living in other earth :D
 
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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
That is a very simplistic view.
no military strategist would place his forces and weapons in the open and in full view.
The parts of the strip that are uninhabited, are so for a good reason. they are totally unsuitable or they are vital for growing crops.

From a military point of view Gaza is undefendable. There is nowhere in it that can not be hit from the sea the land and the air. Israel can and has done all three.
I do agree , I guess , he don't know much about military issues .

the Israeli army choose to strike from Air , inspite it's have troops on the ground !!!
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
That is a very simplistic view.
no military strategist would place his forces and weapons in the open and in full view. The parts of the strip that are uninhabited, are so for a good reason. they are totally unsuitable or they are vital for growing crops.

From a military point of view Gaza is undefendable. There is nowhere in it that can not be hit from the sea the land and the air. Israel can and has done all three.

I'd still like - for discussion purposes - to know what to call Europeans who are opposed to Israel's actions... can we call them "progressives"?

"simplistic view": it... was... rhetorical.

Of course you're not proposing that crops are more important than civilians, so we can strike that response off the list.

So your other argument is the "not in full view" argument. Let's run with that one... are there not a myriad of "not in full view" locations that are far away from schools and hospitals and such?

Yes, cities in Gaza are heavily populated, but not shoulder to shoulder. I'd bet huge sums that no European country would launch rockets from the kinds of locations that Hamas does.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I'd bet huge sums that no European country would launch rockets from the kinds of locations that Hamas does.

And in other countries as well. Our nuclear missiles here in the States, for example, are located in very remote areas and in subs. Hamas has shown a complete willingness to sacrifice its own people to try for a p.r. victory because it well knows it cannot defeat the Israelis militarily.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
And in other countries as well. Our nuclear missiles here in the States, for example, are located in very remote areas and in subs. Hamas has shown a complete willingness to sacrifice its own people to try for a p.r. victory because it well knows it cannot defeat the Israelis militarily.

Compared to the USA Gaza is a parking lot.
When it comes to pr israel has lost the plot.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
I'd still like - for discussion purposes - to know what to call Europeans who are opposed to Israel's actions... can we call them "progressives"?

"simplistic view": it... was... rhetorical.

Of course you're not proposing that crops are more important than civilians, so we can strike that response off the list.

So your other argument is the "not in full view" argument. Let's run with that one... are there not a myriad of "not in full view" locations that are far away from schools and hospitals and such?

Yes, cities in Gaza are heavily populated, but not shoulder to shoulder. I'd bet huge sums that no European country would launch rockets from the kinds of locations that Hamas does.

Well if you want a term for those that are opposed to Israel's actions I would have to call them....... Ostriches.
 
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