Why does Hamas launch rockets from cities?

[Terrywoodenpic]

I'd still like - for discussion purposes - to know what to call Europeans who are opposed to Israel's actions... can we call them "progressives"?

I have not recently met any other kind so Just call them Europeans.

Of course you're not proposing that crops are more important than civilians, so we can strike that response off the list.

Crops are what keeps them alive. It is Israeli bombs that kill them.

Every part of the open land in Gaza is under constant surveillance by american satellites, There is no possibility to hide rocket equipment in such places.

So your other argument is the "not in full view" argument. Let's run with that one... are there not a myriad of "not in full view" locations that are far away from schools and hospitals and such?

There are none ... see above answer

Yes, cities in Gaza are heavily populated, but not shoulder to shoulder. I'd bet huge sums that no European country would launch rockets from the kinds of locations that Hamas does.

Then you would lose. That is exactly what the IRA did.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Well if you want a term for those that are opposed to Israel's actions I would have to call them....... Ostriches.

Then at least you will not have to think up a name for those who support Israel's actions ... there aren't any.

Though perhaps "pets" will do.
I am amazed by how well trained the Israeli's have got you.

 

[Mycroft]

Thank goodness all the retaliatory rocket attacks ever since 2006 are just a lie.

And there you go again. You can't help it, can you?

 

[Levite]

I really think my favorite thing said so far is the protest at the nugatory status of the claim of anti-Semitism due to "over-use."

Which basically means, "Ugh, you keep whining about being persecuted and killed! That gets so old after a while, I just stop listening, because it annoys me! Besides, so much of what you're reacting to happened before very recently, so that makes it irrelevant. Instead of defending yourselves and calling people when they say bigoted things, why can't you just shut up, stop trying to have rights and safe spaces, and die when it's convenient for others?"

Yeah, that never gets old.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I really think my favorite thing said so far is the protest at the nugatory status of the claim of anti-Semitism due to "over-use."

Which basically means, "Ugh, you keep whining about being persecuted and killed! That gets so old after a while, I just stop listening, because it annoys me! Besides, so much of what you're reacting to happened before very recently, so that makes it irrelevant. Instead of defending yourselves and calling people when they say bigoted things, why can't you just shut up, stop trying to have rights and safe spaces, and die when it's convenient for others?"

Yeah, that never gets old.

Increased levels of anti-semetism, historically, seemed to be precipitated by an upsurge of non-Jews painting themselves as victims of the Jewish people. One aspect of which is attempting to paint any suffering of the Jewish-minority as irrelevant, and that they are, in fact, evil perpetrators and manipulators.

The last few years have been very disturbing in this regard, particularly with the increase in anti-semitism in the West - a scenario which doesn't bode well for Jews worldwide.

 

[Godobeyer]

Increased levels of anti-semetism, historically, seemed to be precipitated by an upsurge of non-Jews painting themselves as victims of the Jewish people. One aspect of which is attempting to paint any suffering of the Jewish-minority as irrelevant, and that they are, in fact, evil perpetrators and manipulators.

The last few years have been very disturbing in this regard, particularly with the increase in anti-semitism in the West - a scenario which doesn't bode well for Jews worldwide.

"I am not anti-semitic" is become like habit salutation with a jews .

if someone disagree with jew beliefs or zionist crimes should accused by anti-semitic ?

 

[Sunstone]

Increased levels of anti-semetism, historically, seemed to be precipitated by an upsurge of non-Jews painting themselves as victims of the Jewish people. One aspect of which is attempting to paint any suffering of the Jewish-minority as irrelevant, and that they are, in fact, evil perpetrators and manipulators.

The last few years have been very disturbing in this regard, particularly with the increase in anti-semitism in the West - a scenario which doesn't bode well for Jews worldwide.

Oh, I see how it is: You're playing the anti-anti-semitic card. Well, you should know that you cannot be anti-semitic if you're actually anti-evil-horned-Israeli. Checkmate, Evil-horned-Israeli-lover!

 

[Kilgore Trout]

if someone disagree with jew beliefs or zionist crimes should accused by anti-semitic ?

No, only if they're bigoted against the Jewish people - a not uncommon form of bigotry.

 

[Alceste]

Increased levels of anti-semetism, historically, seemed to be precipitated by an upsurge of non-Jews painting themselves as victims of the Jewish people. One aspect of which is attempting to paint any suffering of the Jewish-minority as irrelevant, and that they are, in fact, evil perpetrators and manipulators.

The last few years have been very disturbing in this regard, particularly with the increase in anti-semitism in the West - a scenario which doesn't bode well for Jews worldwide.

Because it couldn't possibly be a sincere and well considered rejection of things like this:

Yeah, it's gotta be cuz we hate Jews.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Because it couldn't possibly be a sincere and well considered rejection of things like this:

Yeah, it's gotta be cuz we hate Jews.

I have no idea what your strawman presented via rhetoric has to do with my post, or why you would think a general comment and observation about anti-semitism was a personal accusation against you.

 

[Alceste]

Kind of reminds me of when I express the exact same sentiments in objection to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Then I was labelled as "Anti-american". Couldn't be that I hate ******** who drop bombs on children, regardless of their nationality. Must be subconscious tribalistic bigotry of some kind.

 

[Sunstone]

Because it couldn't possibly be a sincere and well considered rejection of things like this:

Yeah, it's gotta be cuz we hate Jews.

I think many people, who are not themselves antisemitic, are appalled by the images of civilian causalities coming out of Gaza. But having said that, I don't think there can be any substantial doubt that actual antisemitism is on the rise, especially in Europe.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I really think my favorite thing said so far is the protest at the nugatory status of the claim of anti-Semitism due to "over-use."

Which basically means, "Ugh, you keep whining about being persecuted and killed! That gets so old after a while, I just stop listening, because it annoys me! Besides, so much of what you're reacting to happened before very recently, so that makes it irrelevant. Instead of defending yourselves and calling people when they say bigoted things, why can't you just shut up, stop trying to have rights and safe spaces, and die when it's convenient for others?"

Yeah, that never gets old.

Israel is in no conceivable danger of being destroyed by Hamas.
There is no correlation between anti-Semitism and being anti-Israel's actions.
It is true that there is a danger of Israeli citizens and Gazan citizens being killed in this ongoing conflict.

However the actions of the Israelis is seen as disproportionate and counter productive and illegal.

There is no prospect that these actions will do more than kill some activists but many civilians. It will make no difference to the underlying situation.

On each recurrence of the conflict, the greater the support both financial and in arms accrues to Gaza.

The Israeli strategy is at best containing the situation for now, It has no long term prospect of success. With out the support of the USA and Egypt it would already have failed.

The UK under the present government is too tied in with the USA to more than voice objections. The situation in the rest of Europe is less certain and could easily become more volatile.

It would seem in some quarters that the Anti-Israel action feelings are crossing over in to the Anti-semitic. This would be unfortunate if true, especially if it is joined by the traditional Russian antipathy towards the Jews.

It is perhaps fortunate that in most "Old European" countries all anti-semitic actions are illegal. However there is no law against military action against Israel or for the support of its neighbours.

Long term political support for Israel is uncertain at best.

 

[Alceste]

I have no idea what your strawman presented via rhetoric has to do with my post, or why you would think a general comment and observation about anti-semitism was a personal accusation against you.

There has been an increase in criticism of Israel because of Israel's behaviour, for example the wanton slaughter of Palestinian children. It's not the forward edge of a new genocidal pogrom against Jews, as you imagine. That's what my reply was meant to communicate.

 

[Sunstone]

It's not the forward edge of a new genocidal pogrom against Jews, as you imagine.

Is that because human nature, being what it is, has at last progressed beyond tribalism, scapegoating, us versus them thinking, bigotry, and so forth? If so, good to hear.

 

[InChrist]

Because it couldn't possibly be a sincere and well considered rejection of things like this:

Yeah, it's gotta be cuz we hate Jews.

It may be that one is sincere in rejecting incidences as the image above, yet it is important and worth looking into the fact that Hamas and other Israel-hating groups bent on destroying Israel deliberately set -up situations as the above image shows solely for the purpose of making Israel appear to be the bad entity, when in fact these groups are the ones callously using and having their own people killed to reach their goal.

When a person is not willing to see the whole picture, but jump on the bandwagon against Israel who is defending itself against terrorists willing to use any underhanded means then I think it is anti-Israel and anti-Jew.

 

[Alceste]

I think many people, who are not themselves antisemitic, are appalled by the images of civilian causalities coming out of Gaza. But having said that, I don't think there can be any substantial doubt that actual antisemitism is on the rise, especially in Europe.

Nationalism is on the rise, certainly. But every group of nationalists is not anti-semitic. For example, Israeli nationalists.

 

[Sunstone]

It may be that one is sincere in rejecting incidences as the image above, yet it is important and worth looking into the fact that Hamas and other Israel-hating groups bent on destroying Israel deliberately set -up situations as the above image shows solely for the purpose of making Israel appear to be the bad entity, when in fact these groups are the ones callously using and having their own people killed to reach their goal.

When a person is not willing to see the whole picture, but jump on the bandwagon against Israel who is defending itself against terrorists willing to use any underhanded means then I think it is anti-Israel and anti-Jew.

The whole picture is rather more complex and genuinely uglier than you seem to imagine. There is plenty of wrong on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides. The Israelis, for instance, turned Gaza into something like a huge penal camp, limiting its supplies of necessities and so forth. Again, there is a legitimate cause for concern that the Israelis are not doing everything they reasonably can to avoid civilian casualties.

But on the other hand, they are facing what appears to be an uncompromising, warmongering enemy in Hamas that benefits from war with Israel, is pledged to the destruction of the Israeli state, and the decimation and/or genocide of Israeli Jews. Before this most recent outbreak of hostilities, Hamas had the support of only about 15% of the people in Gaza. It has grown immensely in strength because of the war and the Israeli response to its provocations. And that's just the start of it. A full picture would take much more explanation and is beyond my pathetically limited knowledge.

 

[Sunstone]

Nationalism is on the rise, certainly. But every group of nationalists is not anti-semitic. For example, Israeli nationalists.

Your post skirts the issue of rising antisemitism. The fact that people are willing to look the other way when antisemitism is mentioned is a large part of the problem.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There has been an increase in criticism of Israel because of Israel's behaviour, for example the wanton slaughter of Palestinian children. It's not the forward edge of a new genocidal pogrom against Jews, as you imagine. That's what my reply was meant to communicate.

Is that a the general view in Canada? or is there an unthinking support for Israel's actions in line with that of the USA?