Under proper circunstances (admitedly rare ones), it might bring questioning about what self-defense is and how proper it is to call aggression by that name.
That is one of the reasons why personal discernment has no substitute.
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Why does Hamas launch rockets from cities?
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
Under proper circunstances (admitedly rare ones), it might bring questioning about what self-defense is and how proper it is to call aggression by that name.
That is one of the reasons why personal discernment has no substitute.
What a careful response. You hate the "racist Jews" but only hate Hamdan's speech. Again, do you hate the viciously antisemitic Hamas spokesperson?
Here and elsewhere.
InChrist
Free4ever
Anti-Israel Resolutions at the HRC
Below is the updated list of one-sided resolutions against Israel adopted by the UN Human Rights Council since its creation in June 2006. The council was designed as an improvement over the discredited Commission on Human Rights, but has tragically repeated and even intensified the same biases.
The council has criticized Israel on 27 separate occasions, in resolutions that grant effective impunity to Hamas, Hezbollah and their state sponsors. Obsessed with condemning Israel, the Council in its first year failed to condemn human rights violations occurring in any of the worlds 191 other countries. In its second year, the Council finally criticized one other country when it deplored the situation in Burma, but only after it censored out initial language containing the word condemn. It even praised Sudan for its "cooperation." In its third year,
The Councils fixation with Israel is not limited to resolutions. Israel is the only country listed on the Councils permanent agenda (Item 7). Moreover, Israel is the only country subjected to an investigatory mandate that examines the actions of only one side, presumes those actions to be violations, and which is not subject to regular review.
To see the Council's resolutions during its first year (2006-2007), click here
To see the Council's resolutions during its second year (2007-2008), click here
To see the Council's resolutions during its third year (2008-2009), click here
To see the Council's resolutions during its fourth year (2009-2010), click here
http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.3820041/
Hi Luis,
Don't usually bother posting in Middle Eastern politics threads, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to support a claim we've regressed. War is as murderous as ever, but any talk of better ethics in the past is pretty far-fetched.
At best, within certain conflicts, countries shared enough similarities that empathies ran a little higher than normal.
- Anzac troops massacred a field hospital in North Africa, including wounded and medical staff in trying to escape an encirclement.
- Allied brass tested weapons on their own troops on a pretty grand scale.
- The Eastern Front. Like...just the whole Eastern Front.
- The Pacific War, and Japanese occupations.
- Etc, etc.
RitalinOhD
Heathen Humanist
I would say the use of White Phosphorus & Flechette shells would indicate they aren't doing enough. Being legally used or not, these types of weapons are indiscriminate in what they do. There is nothing pinpoint about thousands of tiny pieces of sharp metal, or smoke that can kill from being inhaled.
Just my opinion.
If only.
Please, by all means, give me some evidence for that. I am in dire need for it.
The post previous to this one (by RitalinOhD) even points out that the supposedly "remarkably humanitarian" Israeli attacks to Gaza include white phosphorus and flechette shells. Those kinds of weapons don't even have the excuse of being needed. They are just efficient, sadistic tools of human destruction.
I am beginning to wonder if Israel can be quite so naive as people have been attempting to present it as being. There has been an attempt at claiming that the real trouble is that those backwards, destructive Hamas followers fail to see the light and insist on killing civilians by having them present at the military targets.
That is not only a sick joke, but it is also an incredibly stupid and insensitive strategy for earning the sympathies of the people that swear to destroy them. People don't examine their consciences because those who disagree with them are yielding and using such superior and expensive weaponry. All the less so when they are being the targets of said weaponry.
If Israel truly wants to bring some enlightment to Gaza (and it well should; it is in their best interests to dillute all that hostility, after all), assuring them that they have and will always have reason to fear Israel is almost literally shooting their own foot. Offering actual help in establishing some better infra-structure and perhaps establishing some sort of cultural exchange or even limited, regulated migration would be far, far more constructive.
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The WW2 was never fought over the Jewish Question.
In Europe it started with the invasion of Poland.
The USA entered the war towards the end of the third year. following the attack on pearl harbour in Dec 1941.
The pogrom against the Jews started a few years earlier than the outbreak of war in 1933, with the establishment of concentration camps. This pogrom was never seen as a reason for war by any of the eventual participants.
Before the war there were large groups of official Nazi supporters and local Nazi parties in all the major western countries, Including the UK, the USA, France, Italy, Spain and Austria, Long before the start of war.
American Nazis were not rounded up until the entry of Japan into the war.
No western country admitted to being aware of the Holocaust till toward the end of 1945.
The Jews were no more supported in the USA than were the Blacks. But unlike the blacks, there was a super class of extremely rich and influential Jews in both the UK and the USA. However neither Group did much to bring the plight of the European Jews to public awareness.
The Holocaust continued with very little resistance from anyone.
The rest is History.
(I was on the list for arrest had Germany invaded the UK, as were all members of notable families with Jewish blood)
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Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Congratulations You have manage to accomplish two objective with a single post.
First you have posted links to the principal Jewish pressure group and lobbyists providing disinformation in support of the Jewish state to the UN, particularly in the area of Human Rights.
Secondly you have insulted our intelligence in supposing that we might not know this.
I will not insult you in return by suggesting that you did not know that all the members of their International Advisory Board (about us) are leading members of Jewish support groups such as Friends of Israel
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Which has absolutely nothing to do with my general observations about historical anti-semitism.
I did not watch the video , because it's shown to me " vidoe could not be intialized "
so i read the discuss
Inspite i don't have perfect English language , it's shame that you you considere ALL who misguide by Talmud is antisemitic ? include the Rabbi Yosef ?
BLOOD ACCUSATION - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Hamadan discuss about accusation of "blood libel " , so he may get wrong because misguided by Talmud , but he is not antisemitic , he is against the occupation and crimes of Israel .
Edited :Error type
a part from the discuss in your link :
BLITZER: "All right."
HAMDAN: "-- when someone decide to be in an occupation regardless to his religion or to his race, we will fight the occupation even if he was a Muslim or even if he was from our race. We don't accept occupation, we will resist the occupation and they can't hide against being Jews. I have --"
BLITZER: "All right."
HAMDAN: "-- a friend, Jewish friends who are supporting the Palestinian rights. We have (inaudible) who are supporting the Palestinian rights and they are our friends --"
BLITZER: "I understand that."
HAMDAN: "-- and they are against the new Nazis of this century like Netanyahu and Feiglin, and some others who are senior officials in Israel."
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That is too bad, but the transcript seems to be faithful and complete.
How very convenient. We are still left with your careful dance in which you hate the racist Jew but only theoretically hate the antisemitic speech.
He can still read the transcript, though. And he said that he read the discussion, which I assume to be the transcript (and which really has all of the information from the video except perhaps for the body language and the studio backgrounds).
Godobeyer, have you managed to read the text of the transcription, which begins with ""I have to ask you one question" and ends with "or as a senior leader in Likud Party."? It involves two people named Wolf Blitzer (a CNN reporter) and Osama Hamdan (a Hamas spokesman).
If you have read that, odds are that seeing the video itself would not make a crucial difference.
Okay, but you could take this two ways.
1) We're not any worse than we were. We haven't regressed. (kinda positive)
2) We've always been murderous. We haven't learnt a thing. (kinda less positive)
Both of these seem to be true, and I'd suggest that's not a great thing. But, if all you're looking for is hope in the form of us not getting worse, feast your eyes on the list below (note, I haven't gotten too scientific with all this...it's more the sum total effect, than an individual case, but let me know if you want info/links for any);
1st century - Menai Massacre of Celtish society by Roman legions.
8th century - Verden (prisoner massacre)
12th century - Massacre of the Latins (Constantinople)
13th century - Mongols under Genghis Khan systematically depopulate the Tata Mongols, and the Kankalis.
14th century - Tamerlane's massacres...well...pretty much everywhere. But Assyria as a specific example.
16th century - September massacres in Paris/France
17th Century - Ulster massacres
19th century - Zulu massacres in Africa
18th - 20th century - various systematic mistreatment and massacres of Native Americans, both direct (Sand Creek) and indirect (Trail of Tears)
20th century - Rape of Nanking
Meh...you get the point. Modern weapons change the dynamic somewhat, but we seem no worse (nor better I guess...*sighs*) than we ever have been as a people.
InChrist
Free4ever
So am I to assume, from your perspective, it's a negative thing to be friends of Israel or members of Jewish support groups and you prefer instead the views expressed by anti-Israel or terrorists pressure and lobby groups?
"Israel has been a member of the United Nations for more than fifty years. Yet she is not allowed to take her two-year turn as one of the ten rotating nations (joining the five permanent ones) on the UN Security Council. Of the 191 current UN members, 190, including the worst terrorist nations, are allowed to take their turns on the Security Council—but not Israel.
Nor is Israel, as already noted, allowed to take a rotating term on the fifty-three-member UN Commission on Human Rights (UNHRC). All of the other one hundred ninety UN member nations are allowed to do so. These have included Libya, Cuba, Zimbabwe, and other egregious violators of human rights. Incredibly, Sudan, where more than two million blacks in the south have been slaughtered by Muslims, has been voted in for a third consecutive term. But Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, is excluded,as the Bible foretold.
This “watchdog” commission (UNHRC) has never found anything questionable or to be criticized in the deplorable human rights record of some of the worst violators such as Libya, Saudi Arabia, or Syria. Yet Israel is continually condemned by the UNHRC—more than one hundred times in the past two years. Far from denouncing suicide bombers, it upholds “Palestinian rights” to take any kind of retaliatory action against Israeli “aggression.”
A Rising Tide of Jew Hatred TodayThis “watchdog” commission (UNHRC) has never found anything questionable or to be criticized in the deplorable human rights record of some of the worst violators such as Libya, Saudi Arabia, or Syria. Yet Israel is continually condemned by the UNHRC—more than one hundred times in the past two years. Far from denouncing suicide bombers, it upholds “Palestinian rights” to take any kind of retaliatory action against Israeli “aggression.”
A Rising Tide of Jew Hatred Today | thebereancall.org
That depends on what those two groups actually do and aim to do, doesn't it?
Of course, yours is a bit of a false dichotomy. One does not have to choose to support the current military policy of Israel in order not to be a supporter of terrorism.
In fact, a fair argument can be made that the current policy is terrorism.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
"Friends of Israel" Is a particular Pressure group/ organisation to promote political support for Israel. It is not just a group of friends.
It was wrong for you to use statements of such a group as if they were unbiased evidence.
The Israel record Of completely ignoring UN Directives is the worst on record. Particularly in terms of Human rights violations.
It can hardly expect to take its turn leading the commission when it is the most persistent violator.
There is little point Israel even belonging to such a group when it ignores every one of its decisions.
I "Like" or "dislike" views based on their Relevance and truth, Not who is speaking them.
If the other nations of the UN have condemned Israel as you say "one hundred Times" It would suggest That Israel is doing some thing wrong. Not that all the other nations are idiots.
I am sure that when Israel puts its house in order It will be ready to stand with and be accepted by, the other nations on matters of human rights.
Israel is not the only nation "In step"
What I think about Israels actions has nothing at all to do with how I view other nations or indeed terrorist actions. It is clear that all nations can and have, at times, acted equally badly.
The Rules agreed by all nations provide for who can do what with in the United nations and security council. Israel is in breach of those rules and until such time as it corrects that situation, it will find itself excluded. It is not a matter of favouritism or discrimination.
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Yes i read it :
BLITZER: "I have to ask you one question because it's come to our attention and it's all over the Internet. The remarks that you made recently to Al-Quds TV and I'm going to read it you in the English translation, we have translators to make sure the translation was accurate. I want you to explain what you said because it's very disturbing. You said, 'We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians in order to mix their blood with their holy matzos. This is not a figment of the imagination or something taken from a film, it is a fact acknowledged by their own books and historical evidence.'
"You believe that Jews would kill Christians to mix their blood to bake the holy matzos on Passover, is that your belief Mr. Hamdan?"
HAMDAN: "Well, Wolf, let me answer that freely, don't cut me because it's very, very important to be clarified.
"First, I was asked about the statement published by the deputy speaker of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, Moshe Feiglin, who published a plan to have a complete – under the name 'Complete destruction of the Palestinians in Gaza.' And in this plan, he suggested to put all the Palestinians in concentration camps. He's talking about genocide. That was the question. He said that and published that in the first of August, three days ago.
"So, it's clear that this senior member of Likud, the deputy speaker of the parliament in Israel who is effective in creating decisions and making decisions who is pushing Netanyahu as a senior member in his party talking about a genocide against the Palestinians. He is committed or he is connected to such old stories which was claimed by the church, it's not what we are saying. In fact, this is the first point.
"The second point, I have to tell you that they are misusing the words. I've said in the same occasion that we don't have problem with the Jews as Palestinians and as Muslims. We don't have problems with Jews, the Jews who lives in the Arab region and among the Muslims as normal citizens. They were not considered something else. They were considered normal citizens in our country. We are against the occupation. When the Jews were kicked from Europe in the Mid-Ages, they came to live in peace in our country and they were accepted, but when they tend to be --
BLITZER: "All right."
HAMDAN: "-- when someone decide to be in an occupation regardless to his religion or to his race, we will fight the occupation even if he was a Muslim or even if he was from our race. We don't accept occupation, we will resist the occupation and they can't hide against being Jews. I have --"
BLITZER: "All right."
HAMDAN: "-- a friend, Jewish friends who are supporting the Palestinian rights. We have (inaudible) who are supporting the Palestinian rights and they are our friends --"
BLITZER: "I understand that."
HAMDAN: "-- and they are against the new Nazis of this century like Netanyahu and Feiglin, and some others who are senior officials in Israel."
BLITZER: "Well, I understand that but I just want to be specific and just answer the question. And maybe I'll remind you what you said. I'm going to play it in Arabic. Here's what you said on Al-Quds TV --"
HAMDAN: "Wolf, Wolf, I know what I've said --"
BLITZER: "I want to play this for you."
HAMDAN: "I know --"
BLITZER: "Just listen to this and then --"
HAMDAN: "I know --"
BLITZER: "-- you explain what you mean. Let's play the tape."
HAMDAN: "No. No. No. You don't know --"
BLITZER: "So, do you believe that Jews used to slaughter --"
HAMDAN: "OK."
BLITZER: "-- Christians to mix their blood to bake --"
HAMDAN: "You have to ask that for the chairs which claims that, you know. This is the fact. You cut the words, not you, the Israelis in memory. They cut the facts and they start this propaganda to say that they are innocent. They want to cover the genocide which is happening in Gaza now. They want to cover themselves when they are killing 2,000 Palestinians, injuring more than 12,000 Palestinians in a barbarian attack against Gaza.
"And they are connected to the same old mentality which had the others, this man who is the deputy speaker of the Knesset when he said, 'We have to put all the Palestinians in a concentration camp.' What does it mean? When you have -- When you talk about -- Yochanan Gordon who wrote, "Palestinian genocide is permissible." What does it mean? Those people are the people who are hating the humanity --"
BLITZER: "All right."
HAMDAN: "-- while trying killing the Palestinians. We don't have a problem with the Jews as they are Jewish people and in fact we believe in Moses, we believe in Jesus, we believe in Mohammad, we respect them all, the three of them the same, and we believe that everyone has the right to choose his religion, no one will be questioned by the other humans for his religion."
BLITZER: "All right."
HAMDAN: "God will ask us all. No one is asked because of his race. The races are the same. We are all from Adam but the people who are talking about genocide against the Palestinians must be questioned and asked because they are saying that and doing that at the same time. Thank you, Wolf."
BLITZER: "But you -- all right, we're going to leave it there Mr. Hamdan, but I was hoping to get a flat denial from you that you would utter such a -- such ridiculous words that Jews would kill Christians in order to use their blood --"
HAMDAN: "But someone said that."
BLITZER: "-- to take matzo."
HAMDAN: "OK."
BLITZER: "That sounds, as you know, that is an awful, awful --"
HAMDAN: "Wolf, you have to be fair. You can't end that. I must end that because you asked me and I want to answer. This was said by everyone. I was saying they are barred of what was being said. He has to deny what he write about the Palestinians, about the genocide against the Palestinians which he call for, which he suggested to do as a member in the parliament or as a senior leader in Likud Party."
Now tell us ,do you have a problem Jay ?