Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[1robin]

I guess it is a big fat NO on the civil war debate. "Too bad, too bad." If any one can tell me what General said that and why I will concede a minor point of their choice.

 

[CG Didymus]

...the concept of accountability that I have already suggested is a deduction from scripture not scripture it's self?

Yeah, let's look at those Scriptures used to deduce this concept.

 

[Ingledsva]

The issue is about what you have shown not what the bible contains.


You mean the ones you did not post but only paraphrased.


Ditto


I know what the bible says. However it was you who said you claim these occurred and before I can agree or disagree you refuse your burden of providing evidence for any of them.


You will not find a single word you types in the bible's original language. You must show these words are accurate. I am not doing your work for you. I did not begin this discussion defending the bible, you began it by attacking it. It is your burden.


You did not write the book you are impugning. I need examples from it not paraphrases from you.

LOL! I have given you the verses overt and over.


They had slavery, and they practiced it for thousands of years.


The Bible gives both the laws, and examples where some of them were used.


Nothing you say can change that.



*

 

[Ingledsva]

*

Here some of them are again - ROBIN.


Exo 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

Exo 21:21 Notwithstanding, if he survive on a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his object/possession.

*
Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a woman, and she have born him sons or daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. (Rape Breeding of Slaves)

*

Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Lev 25:46 And you shall take them for inheritance to your sons after you, to hold for a possession; you may enslave them forever. But on your brothers, the sons of Israel, one over another, you shall not rule over him with severity.

*

Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

Lev 22:11 But if the priest buy any person with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.

Note that in 22:10 they have a hired servant – a sakiyr.

In 20:11 it is a bought slave.

*

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:11 And if you see a captive woman, beautiful in appearance, and want to join with/delight in/cling to her, may seize her for your woman.


Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

*

Num 31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

Num 31:16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

Num 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

Num 31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. (slavery, rape)


*

And of course they kidnapped and raped the women of Shiloh.

Jdg 21:20 Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards;

Jdg 21:21 And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his woman of the daughters of Shiloh, and run to the land of Benjamin. (RAPE, SLAVERY)



*

Concubines - http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/search?utf8=✓&keywords=concubines&commit=search
Slaves

“He may not marry an Israelite woman,nor may a slave woman be married to a free Israelite;”

So obviously that SEX of concubines and slaves, and prisoners, is not “marriage” but RAPE.



*

 

[1robin]

Yeah, let's look at those Scriptures used to deduce this concept.

Ok but I want you first to acknowledge so I don't have to repeat it over and over that this is not a crystal clear issue and can't be resolved to the criteria of one. My claim is that the innocents of children before God is the best deduction or explanation from Biblical verses not that it is a jump of the page brute fact. If you can agree as to my burden here then we will begin.

 

[1robin]

LOL! I have given you the verses overt and over.


They had slavery, and they practiced it for thousands of years.


The Bible gives both the laws, and examples where some of them were used.


Nothing you say can change that.



*

I am being as technically demanding of you as you are of me. In fact I'm am being somewhat less demanding but demanding never the less.

I am not going to argue with a person hostile to the bible's paraphrasing about what is in it and I do not have time to look up past posts. You can stand your ground and no debate will take place or you can at least give me verse numbers and I will respond. No harm, no foul, no hard feelings either way but make up your mind please and act accordingly.

 

[1robin]

*

Here some of them are again - ROBIN.

Ok you did what I asked for above. So belay my last. (That is a Navy term, do you know what it means?) Just for fun.

Exo 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

Exo 21:21 Notwithstanding, if he survive on a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his object/possession.

You have posted this before and I have explained it before. If they die he is punished severely. No problem so far. Given that almost all forms of slavery were debt slavery the owner had paid a large sum of money in expectation of labor if he deprived himself of that labor for a time period that was viewed as a punishment and it was and he was not punished further. The issue here would only be if the slave was severely beaten and owed very little of his time left. But we do not have these details so we can't discuss them.

Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a woman, and she have born him sons or daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. (Rape Breeding of Slaves)

There are some assumptions this one necessarily comes with. That somehow the women was indebted to the master and was his in either a temporary sense or rarely a permanent sense. He relinquished some of his rights to her and conferred them on another slave. There is no intent of rape here. I think this is about what happens if a male slave marries a female slave previously indebted to the master. IOW the master had invested quite a lot in the women and this was an attempt to square the books if she was married to another slave. I notice your bias did not allow you to post the rest of this story. The former male slave could stay on and had to receive shelter and food and even had property rights, could keep his wife and child.


You must keep in mind slavery was a universal institution. That does not make it good but it does make it a thing that must be dealt with through human agency and God specifically said so. IOW God must operate within the limitations of a flawed creature in this case and time. God reluctantly left a preexisting institution in tact but created the most benevolent laws about it in the entire ANE. So whatever else it may be it is not God's desire for it to exist. It does not exist in a single instance in God's kingdom. God even eliminated it here as soon as mankind was capable of doing so.

*

Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Lev 25:46 And you shall take them for inheritance to your sons after you, to hold for a possession; you may enslave them forever. But on your brothers, the sons of Israel, one over another, you shall not rule over him with severity.

This is the one that is most problematic. So it will take much time to hash out. If that is what you want to then get rid of the rest and we will concentrate here.

*

Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

This pretty much self explanatory. Things dedicated to the priestly class and God are not to be taken by hordes of vagabonds.

Lev 22:11 But if the priest buy any person with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.

This is actually a good thing. Some war fugitive is going to find it hard to survive in a region without well fare and much of an economy. I am not familiar with this verse so I will leave it here.

Note that in 22:10 they have a hired servant – a sakiyr.

In 20:11 it is a bought slave.

*

What am I missing? I have granted that slavery/servitude existed in OT times in every post I have made. Supplying verses that agree with my admission is not an argument.

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

I have already dealt with t his one in detail in our former discussions.

Deut 21:11 And if you see a captive woman, beautiful in appearance, and want to join with/delight in/cling to her, may seize her for your woman.

I have dealt with this one here recently but with another poster.

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

It does not say anything about slavery and rape. This is getting far too involved for me to do a sufficient job on any of them. Please pick the worst case scenario you can find that we have not already exhausted. Be it supposed rape or actual life long slavery and we can resolve it. I can't do anything meaningful with a lab full of science stuff that never works, 10 simultaneous debates, a couple of which are nothing but a barrage of questions/ accusations. Pick your worst example and lets get detailed.

 

[Ingledsva]

Ok you did what I asked for above. So belay my last. (That is a Navy term, do you know what it means?) Just for fun.

Exo 21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

Exo 21:21 Notwithstanding, if he survive on a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his object/possession.

You have posted this before and I have explained it before. If they die he is punished severely. No problem so far. Given that almost all forms of slavery were debt slavery the owner had paid a large sum of money in expectation of labor if he deprived himself of that labor for a time period that was viewed as a punishment and it was and he was not punished further. The issue here would only be if the slave was severely beaten and owed very little of his time left. But we do not have these details so we can't discuss them.


ING - Again - BULL! It specifically says a POSSESSION!

Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a woman, and she have born him sons or daughters; the woman and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. (Rape Breeding of Slaves)

There are some assumptions this one necessarily comes with. That somehow the women was indebted to the master and was his in either a temporary sense or rarely a permanent sense. He relinquished some of his rights to her and conferred them on another slave. There is no intent of rape here. I think this is about what happens if a male slave marries a female slave previously indebted to the master. IOW the master had invested quite a lot in the women and this was an attempt to square the books if she was married to another slave. I notice your bias did not allow you to post the rest of this story. The former male slave could stay on and had to receive shelter and food and even had property rights, could keep his wife and child.


ING - Absolute BULL! Did you even read what you wrote there? A temporary situation? Where he could pimp her out? And then OWN her children? Think before you type!

Putting a male with your female SLAVE, and owning the resulting children, - is called SLAVE BREEDING! And it says noting about marriage - it say "If his master have given him a woman!"


*

You must keep in mind slavery was a universal institution. That does not make it good but it does make it a thing that must be dealt with through human agency and God specifically said so. IOW God must operate within the limitations of a flawed creature in this case and time. God reluctantly left a preexisting institution in tact but created the most benevolent laws about it in the entire ANE. So whatever else it may be it is not God's desire for it to exist. It does not exist in a single instance in God's kingdom. God even eliminated it here as soon as mankind was capable of doing so.


ING - More Bull! A supposedly superior GOD - supposedly giving laws directly from GOD, - and this GOD can't put in humane, and obvious, laws against slavery? BULL!

*

Lev 25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

Lev 25:46 And you shall take them for inheritance to your sons after you, to hold for a possession; you may enslave them forever. But on your brothers, the sons of Israel, one over another, you shall not rule over him with severity.

This is the one that is most problematic. So it will take much time to hash out. If that is what you want to then get rid of the rest and we will concentrate here.


ING - No kidding it is problematic for YOU folks! It puts the lie to the fudging, and changing of translation, absolute falsifying, that you folks are still doing - rather then deal with the patriarchal - rape, slavery, war, and murder of innocent children, by "god's supposed people!"

*

Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

This pretty much self explanatory. Things dedicated to the priestly class and God are not to be taken by hordes of vagabonds.


ING - LOL! Dude, I put in this verse and the next (22:11) - to show absolutely - that they had both servants - AND SLAVES!

Lev 22:11 But if the priest buy any person with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.

This is actually a good thing. Some war fugitive is going to find it hard to survive in a region without well fare and much of an economy. I am not familiar with this verse so I will leave it here.


ING - LOL! Put them back together - they prove - hired/indentured servants, - AND bought SLAVES!

Lev 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.

Lev 22:11 But if the priest buy any person with his money, he shall eat of it, and he that is born in his house: they shall eat of his meat.

Note that in 22:10 they have a hired servant – a sakiyr.

In 20:11 it is a bought slave.

What am I missing? I have granted that slavery/servitude existed in OT times in every post I have made. Supplying verses that agree with my admission is not an argument.


ING - Don't play that game. I am providing the actual verses that PROVE they held, did breed, and rape, real SLAVES! REAL SLAVERY FOREVER! Property passed on to their children!

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

I have already dealt with t his one in detail in our former discussions.


ING - You have attempted to - without success!


I have dealt with this one here recently but with another poster.

It does not say anything about slavery and rape. This is getting far too involved for me to do a sufficient job on any of them. Please pick the worst case scenario you can find that we have not already exhausted. Be it supposed rape or actual life long slavery and we can resolve it. I can't do anything meaningful with a lab full of science stuff that never works, 10 simultaneous debates, a couple of which are nothing but a barrage of questions/ accusations. Pick your worst example and lets get detailed.

LOL! Sure it doesn't speak about rape and slavery, - NOT!


You are going to sit there and tell me after a WAR - in which they slaughtered ALL of her family and friends - kidnapped her - locked her up to scream and wail for her dead family - for a whole 30 days -

and she all of a sudden says - It has been 30 days, I'm over all the blood and death - please wipe the blood of my family off your feet first, and then scr*w me?


Pure BULL you folks are putting out!


This is kidnapping - rape - and slavery - raped women were not set free.


So - gives us a break! - This idea that this is not rape and slavery, is absolute BULL! And you know it!



*

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Is all a bit old testement , none relevant to Christianity.
Is god evil id suggest no , god not evil just indifferent , non biased .

 

[CG Didymus]

Ok but I want you first to acknowledge so I don't have to repeat it over and over that this is not a crystal clear issue and can't be resolved to the criteria of one. My claim is that the innocents of children before God is the best deduction or explanation from Biblical verses not that it is a jump of the page brute fact. If you can agree as to my burden here then we will begin.

Yes. Let's go.

 

[adi2d]

Is all a bit old testement , none relevant to Christianity.
Is god evil id suggest no , god not evil just indifferent , non biased .

So God is indifferent to owning a person,rape,beating a person half to death(but not all the way dead because, you know, that would be wrong) but He finds it necessary to tell us not to wear mixed fabrics?

He seems to have a strange list of priorities

 

[1robin]

LOL! Sure it doesn't speak about rape and slavery, - NOT!

You need to calm down, take a nap, then type slower or something. I did not say it does not suggest rape. I said your saying it does is not evidence that it does. I am not doing the work you have the burden for but so far will not do.

I did say that a specific verse did not say anything about rape.

You are going to sit there and tell me after a WAR - in which they slaughtered ALL of her family and friends - kidnapped her - locked her up to scream and wail for her dead family - for a whole 30 days -

Who? What are you talking about?

and she all of a sudden says - It has been 30 days, I'm over all the blood and death - please wipe the blood of my family off your feet first, and then scr*w me?

What is wrong with you? It is like your yelling and stuttering through a key board at the same time. This is not an argument. It is a sensational description about no one I have ever heard of, which I assumes is supposed to be a reflection of a verse you will not reference with it nor pare down the avalanche of general verse you gave at once.

Pure BULL you folks are putting out!


This is kidnapping - rape - and slavery - raped women were not set free.


So - gives us a break! - This idea that this is not rape and slavery, is absolute BULL! And you know it!

*

Last chance, quit inventing scenarios to produce sensationalism and start giving verse to be evaluated by proper exegesis. I will not deny what the majority of NT scholars conclude about these verses regardless what their faith is or whether I find it convenient. What I will not do is respond to emotionally charged fantasies based on your unqualified interpretation of verses you either give in machine gun fashion or not at all.

Pick your worst biblical evil. Give me the verse you think justify your label of evil and we can discuss them. I know very well to steer away from an emotionally based objection. Emotions do not care about evidence. Make a single evidence based case or I will withdraw the offer to respond.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

So God is indifferent to owning a person,rape,beating a person half to death(but not all the way dead because, you know, that would be wrong) but He finds it necessary to tell us not to wear mixed fabrics?

He seems to have a strange list of priorities

Doesn't have any priorities wouldn't be indifferent if it did.

 

[adi2d]

Doesn't have any priorities wouldn't be indifferent if it did.

Sorry. . I must have confused you for a "the Bible is the inspired word of God"posters


Do you worship a indifferent God? Just curious

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Sorry. . I must have confused you for a "the Bible is the inspired word of God"posters


Do you worship a indifferent God? Just curious

Worshipping an indifferent God seems a bit pointless , i draw my conclusion from observations of the real world .

 

[Ingledsva]

Is all a bit old testement , none relevant to Christianity.
Is god evil id suggest no , god not evil just indifferent , non biased .

Whom are you responding to?


You need to use the quote function so we know.


If you were referring to my post -


As already stated - this info is put up because the Religions of Abraham are changing translations, and fudging the facts, to make their past look better.


Also, USA Christians used those same Bible verses to show they had God's permission to own slaves.


ISIS - today - is using those Abrahamic laws to kidnap and enslave, rape, and sell, girls.




*

 

[Ingledsva]

LOL! Sure it doesn't speak about rape and slavery, - NOT!

You need to calm down, take a nap, then type slower or something. I did not say it does not suggest rape. I said your saying it does is not evidence that it does. I am not doing the work you have the burden for but so far will not do.

I did say that a specific verse did not say anything about rape.

You are going to sit there and tell me after a WAR - in which they slaughtered ALL of her family and friends - kidnapped her - locked her up to scream and wail for her dead family - for a whole 30 days -

Who? What are you talking about?

and she all of a sudden says - It has been 30 days, I'm over all the blood and death - please wipe the blood of my family off your feet first, and then scr*w me?

What is wrong with you? It is like your yelling and stuttering through a key board at the same time. This is not an argument. It is a sensational description about no one I have ever heard of, which I assumes is supposed to be a reflection of a verse you will not reference with it nor pare down the avalanche of general verse you gave at once.

Pure BULL you folks are putting out!


This is kidnapping - rape - and slavery - raped women were not set free.


So - gives us a break! - This idea that this is not rape and slavery, is absolute BULL! And you know it!

Last chance, quit inventing scenarios to produce sensationalism and start giving verse to be evaluated by proper exegesis. I will not deny what the majority of NT scholars conclude about these verses regardless what their faith is or whether I find it convenient. What I will not do is respond to emotionally charged fantasies based on your unqualified interpretation of verses you either give in machine gun fashion or not at all.

Pick your worst biblical evil. Give me the verse you think justify your label of evil and we can discuss them. I know very well to steer away from an emotionally based objection. Emotions do not care about evidence. Make a single evidence based case or I will withdraw the offer to respond.

And you continue to squirm, wiggle, and pretend that these were rare, which is bull. They were not only allowed, but happily carried out for thousands of years.

But I understand why you refuse to see - because you then have to acknowledge the evil built into a religion supposedly from God, - which verses show us, - IS NOT FROM GOD - but from patriarchal men that wanted to own women, own sex slaves/concubines, rape, hold and breed slaves, murder people whom were different, etc.

And as such you would have to acknowledge you are wrong and your religion FALSE!

*

And here is the whole thing again - which you claim not to understand.


Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:11 And if you see a captive woman, beautiful in appearance, and want to join with/delight in/cling to her, may seize her for your woman.

Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)


And my reply to you concerning -

LOL! Sure it doesn't speak about rape and slavery, - NOT!


You are going to sit there and tell me after a WAR - in which they slaughtered ALL of her family and friends - kidnapped her - locked her up to scream and wail for her dead family - for a whole 30 days -

and she all of a sudden says - It has been 30 days, I'm over all the blood and death - please wipe the blood of my family off your feet first, and then scr*w me?


Pure BULL you folks are putting out!


This is kidnapping - rape - and slavery - raped women were not set free.


So - gives us a break! - This idea that this is not rape and slavery, is absolute BULL! And you know it!

*

 

[sincerly]

And you continue to squirm, wiggle, and pretend that these were rare, which is bull. They were not only allowed, but happily carried out for thousands of years.

But I understand why you refuse to see - because you then have to acknowledge the evil built into a religion supposedly from God, - which verses show us, - IS NOT FROM GOD - but from patriarchal men that wanted to own women, own sex slaves/concubines, rape, hold and breed slaves, murder people whom were different, etc.

And as such you would have to acknowledge you are wrong and your religion FALSE!

*

And here is the whole thing again - which you claim not to understand.


Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:11 And if you see a captive woman, beautiful in appearance, and want to join with/delight in/cling to her, may seize her for your woman.

Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)


And my reply to you concerning -*

Hi Ingledsva, The topic is now "generalized". But you are not presenting the verse as written in the KJV or any version of about sixteen that were presented. Let's look at Vss. 11-14; "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Moses was preparing the Israelites (after the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness because of unbelief) for the taking(war in gaining the territory) of the "promised land".(Chapters 19-21) Notice in 20:11, 14-17; the difference in the instructions concerning "cities"--and the explanation for such.

The "wife" would not have come from the six nations whose iniquity had been made "full"---but from a far nation whose males were defiant and bent on destroying Israel. GOD is Merciful and Loving---to care for those widows and orphans.(Before the Israelites crossed over the Jordan.)

 

[Ingledsva]

...

Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:11 And if you see a captive woman, beautiful in appearance, and want to join with/delight in/cling to her, may seize her for your woman.

Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)

Hi Ingledsva, The topic is now "generalized". But you are not presenting the verse as written in the KJV or any version of about sixteen that were presented.


ING - Because I am putting the - FUDGED -text, back to it's real meaning.


Let's look at Vss. 11-14; "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

Moses was preparing the Israelites (after the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness because of unbelief) for the taking(war in gaining the territory) of the "promised land".(Chapters 19-21) Notice in 20:11, 14-17; the difference in the instructions concerning "cities"--and the explanation for such.

The "wife" would not have come from the six nations whose iniquity had been made "full"---but from a far nation whose males were defiant and bent on destroying Israel. GOD is Merciful and Loving---to care for those widows and orphans.(Before the Israelites crossed over the Jordan.)

1. The word "woman" at the beginning of the first sentence is the same word fudged into "wife" in the rest, to hide that this is RAPE.

2. The word for "husband" is ba'al - master/owner.

3. The Hebrew could not marry these foreign prisoner/slaves. I put that information from a Jewish site - two or so pages back.

4. That "humbled her" is known to mean RAPE.

5. There is NO law, in Tanakh saying to take care of foreign widows and orphans of the people you kill. In fact we are told several times that they should KILL EVERYONE - except RAPABLE little virgins.


6. Anyone - that thinks a female that has just watched her people and family killed, - then is kidnapped and marched back to the enemy home, allowed to morn for only 30 days, - and then is happy to be the "wife" of the murderous enemy - is an idiot! That is NOT what it says. Look at it in the Hebrew.



*

 

[1robin]

And you continue to squirm, wiggle, and pretend that these were rare, which is bull. They were not only allowed, but happily carried out for thousands of years.

But I understand why you refuse to see - because you then have to acknowledge the evil built into a religion supposedly from God, - which verses show us, - IS NOT FROM GOD - but from patriarchal men that wanted to own women, own sex slaves/concubines, rape, hold and breed slaves, murder people whom were different, etc.

And as such you would have to acknowledge you are wrong and your religion FALSE!

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And here is the whole thing again - which you claim not to understand.


Deut 21:10 When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives,

Deut 21:11 And if you see a captive woman, beautiful in appearance, and want to join with/delight in/cling to her, may seize her for your woman.

Deu 21:12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

Deut 21:13 and shall remove the clothing of her captivity from her, and shall live in your house, and shall morn for her father and her mother a month of days. And afterward shall go into her as master, making her your woman. (slavery, rape)


And my reply to you concerning -




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Cut out all the color commentary and confirm the above verses are the ones you want me to explain instead of the whole OT and I will respond to them. Please, just post the verses you want an explanation for. If I have one I will post it in response.