Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

[JM2C]

I am aware that everything He plans goes wrong, for some reason, but He could have easily prevented that by simply nuking the tree, instead of writing useless commands. That, is prevention. Simple.

“I am aware that everything He plans goes wrong” You mean man having dominion over the gorillas. This plan of God only concerns the human class. Anything less than the human class should complain to the human because God gave man authority to have dominion over them. IOW, if you think that you are not part of the human race then stop complaining to God, but complain to human instead. Man have the dominion over you.

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

 

[JM2C]

Have you seen Penguin? 'cause I don't know where he is not

 

[JM2C]

Destruction with a flood (useless) I don't think He knows what He is doing.

Test and trials, at best.

Ciao
- viole

Didn’t Noah save the animals?

 

[CG Didymus]

“I am aware that everything He plans goes wrong” You mean man having dominion over the gorillas. This plan of God only concerns the human class. Anything less than the human class should complain to the human because God gave man authority to have dominion over them. IOW, if you think that you are not part of the human race then stop complaining to God, but complain to human instead. Man have the dominion over you.

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

What if I owned a farm, I and created some androids to run it and take care of the animals. The very first day I gave them a test to see how obedient they were going to be to my commands. They failed. Instead of fixing the problem I made them even more flawed. I planted thorns and thisthes to make it more difficult for them to grow food. And, I let an evil person tell them things contrary to what I wanted them to do, and then I complained when they missed up. Who would you blame?

 

[JM2C]

What if I owned a farm, I and created some androids to run it and take care of the animals. The very first day I gave them a test to see how obedient they were going to be to my commands. They failed. Instead of fixing the problem I made them even more flawed. I planted thorns and thisthes to make it more difficult for them to grow food. And, I let an evil person tell them things contrary to what I wanted them to do, and then I complained when they missed up. Who would you blame?

“Who would you blame?”

I challenge you, in this thread, if you can honestly, like what a “Reasonable Person” should do, to answer Post #4758 then that would be my answer to your question here.

 

[CG Didymus]

Heh... so you think that the US was in the throes of a "secular revolution" a year after its government started slapping "in God we trust" on everything in sight?

And seeing how the "moral curve" of the US since 1955 includes things like ending segregation and taking huge strides against sexism, I wonder how you can call it entirely negative.

You are forgetting about the "devil's" music, rock and roll. Society has been on a downhill spiral ever since. Never before did we have such godless, blasphemous, and obscene lyrics, and such sexually provocative rhythms and dances. One song went so far as to suggest we break the posted speed law and drive faster than 55mph! Terrible, just terrible.

(With a tear in my eye) We must all repent and listen to beautiful praise music. May I suggest a Jimmy Swaggart album. Or, maybe some all time gospel favorites sung by Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. Now that's music for the heart and soul. Just don't break the speed laws getting down to your nearest Christian book store to buy them.

Oh, I did have a Christian girlfriend borrow some records from me and then she burn them! One was a Neil Young album and another was a Cat Stevens. I guess she knew by word of prophesy that he was going to become a Muslim, but Neil? What did he ever say that was evil?

 

[CG Didymus]

If other roads has exactly the same “sharp curve” with the same warning sign “sharp curve” like yours then you followed the standard of building a road and should not be liable for any crash a motorist might have. It is the motorist negligence by not following what a “reasonable person” should be doing, and that is, driving with care.

Now, if other roads with the same exact “sharp curve” like yours with the same warning sign “sharp curve” and with this warning sign “sharp curve” put up an additional warning sign “reduce speed to 15mph” on a 55mph zone, then you are liable if a motorist crash by neglecting to follow the standard of building a road even if the motorist is not a “reasonable person” by any standard of driving. “Reasonable Person” always carries responsibilities others should learn from therefore became the standard or pattern.

Let me ask you and I hope that you honestly answer this like a "Reasonable Person" should be.

Base on the two models you and I presented here, if we follow the standard of putting up a sign: “NO SWIMMING NO LIFEGUARD” and “SHARP CURVE” do you think we are liable by negligence if one disregard either warnings and drowned or crash?*
*
If you say yes, then you did not follow the premises presented to you and should not be a model of what a “Reasonable Person” should be.

If you say no then you are a “Reasonable Person”

Now, do you think God is a “Reasonable God” by giving Adam a warning sign in Genesis 2:16-17?*

If you say yes, then you should agree with me that God is not the cause of any human death, but Adam’s negligence by not following the warning sign that brought death to humanity and therefore, he/Adam became the pattern of what an “Unreasonable Person” should be.

There's some questions that can't be answered so simply. The story to me is a metaphor. As written, I still think God set Adam up for failure. Now answer my question.

 

[JM2C]

There's some questions that can't be answered so simply. The story to me is a metaphor. As written, I still think God set Adam up for failure. Now answer my question.

It’s either you did not understand or you do not want to say the right answer.

The answer there is inescapable or impossible to avoid because the right answer is there staring right at you. You can’t see the truth even if it was staring right at you anyway.

 

[CG Didymus]

It’s either you did not understand or you do not want to say the right answer.

The answer there is inescapable or impossible to avoid because the right answer is there staring right at you. You can’t see the truth even if it was staring right at you anyway.

So there is only one right answer? To see it your way? Be reasonable. Why even give me a choice? Because, I believe your answer is wrong.

No swimming, because there is no lifeguard? What if I am a lifeguard or a really strong swimmer. That sign wouldn't be aimed at me. And the slow curve? If you're driving a van or truck, you better take it slow, but what if you're driving a sports car? Fifty might be comparable to taking the turn at twenty-five for the truck and van.

So, supposedly, the invisible God told Adam not to eat from the tree. Or, was God visible? If "yes" then God isn't invisible. So which is it? If he is invisible, then a mysterious voice made this command, but a very real talking, walking serpent told Eve that it was okay to eat the fruit. She made a mistake. But, why the All-Knowing God allowed the snake to trick her? Why did he put the tree in the garden? What purpose did it serve other than getting them to break his rule?

So if you were in your sports car and took the curve easily at fifty and a cop stopped you, put a curse on you and your children, but wait the cop also put a passenger in your car that kept telling you that you could probably take the corner at sixty, and then the cop cursed the passenger also, then you are absolutely right. God the cop are not evil. They did not set us up. We did it. We are so guilty, from birth. So where's Jesus so he can sign off my ticket.

Now will you answer my question?

 

[JM2C]

So there is only one right answer? To see it your way? Be reasonable. Why even give me a choice? Because, I believe your answer is wrong.

You should answer this with a simple yes or no and not make it more complicated by giving more analogies.

One of the questions when one go on a jury duty is, “are you a Reasonable Person”? What is a reasonable person? Unprejudiced, unbiased, and fair, one who should be able to judge regardless of the background of the accused and base judgments on facts and not on EMOTIONS.

I asked a question:

If I put up a sign in a beach that says, “NO SWIMMING BECAUSE NO LIFEGUARD” and you swim anyway and drowned, then who is at fault here?

Who is liable by negligence here? Very simple answer it’s either me or the one gets drowned, and in this case, I am not liable because I put up the proper sign.

Penguin responded with this:

At least here, the law uses what's called the "reasonable person test": the responsible person has a duty to take reasonable steps to protect others.

And then he gave this analogy about liability and negligence.

If I was to design a road with one curve that had a design speed way less than the rest of the road, then unless there was some very good reason why I absolutely had to do it, I could very well be found liable for someone's crash even if it had a "sharp curve" warning sign.

And I gave him these two scenarios of liability and negligence.

If you read carefully you can see the differences.

#1) If other roads has exactly the same “sharp curve” with the same warning sign “sharp curve” like yours then you followed the standard of building a road and should not be liable for any crash a motorist might have. It is the motorist negligence by not following what a “reasonable person” should be doing, and that is, driving with care.

Do you think Penguin is liable by neglecting to provide the proper sign on scenario #1? NO! Because he followed the right standard of building a road by putting the right or proper sign.

#2) Now, if other roads with the same exact “sharp curve” like yours with the same warning sign “sharp curve” and with this warning sign “sharp curve” put up an additional warning sign “reduce speed to 15mph” on a 55mph zone, then you are liable if a motorist crash by neglecting to follow the standard of building a road even if the motorist is not a “reasonable person” by any standard of driving.

Do you think Penguin is liable by neglecting to provide the proper sign on scenario #2?
YES! Because he did not follow the right standard of building a road by putting the right or proper sign.

Now, the conclusion, and please read and understand that this is not about what you thought of me, that I want to see it my way. Remember all these came from Penguin.

So there is only one right answer? To see it your way? Be reasonable. Why even give me a choice? Because, I believe your answer is wrong.

by giving this answer proves only that you cannot be a juror and therefore you cannot judge God with your twisted thoughts about Him. You are biased, prejudiced and unfair. You did not base your judgment on facts but on EMOTION.

Please read and understand:

Base on the two models you and I presented here, if we follow the standard of putting up a sign: “NO SWIMMING NO LIFEGUARD” and “SHARP CURVE” do you think we are liable by negligence if one disregard either warnings and drowned or crash?*

UNDERSTAND THIS. NO! We, Penguin and I, are not liable because we did not neglect to put the proper sign.

If you say yes, then you did not follow the premises presented to you and should not be a model of what a “Reasonable Person” should be.

or you cannot be a juror.

If you say no then you are a “Reasonable Person”

then you can be a juror.

Now, do you think God is a “Reasonable God” by giving Adam a warning sign in Genesis 2:16-17?*

YES! Base on the premises given above, God is a Reasonable God and therefore can rightly judge man if he sinned against Him.

If a juror is a “Reasonable Person” s/he can judge if a man is at fault or not.

Then why it can’t be applied to God?

If you say yes, then you should agree with me that God is not the cause of any human death, but Adam’s negligence by not following the warning sign that brought death to humanity and therefore, he/Adam became the pattern of what an “Unreasonable Person” should be.

Adam’s negligence is the cause of death and not God.

You see irony here, Penguin been implying that God is the cause of death by giving analogies but what he didn’t know is, he answered it correctly with this same analogies that he gave, and that is, that God is not cause of death.

You know there’s a saying, “they will be admitting unconsciously what they were denying consciously”

 

[CG Didymus]

You should answer this with a simple yes or no and not make it more complicated by giving more analogies.

Your analogies aren't anything like what God did to Adam. He knew Adam would fail. He cast satan to Earth. Let him tempt Adam. And could have prevented it, but didn't. So you, the juror, what do you think? Did God know before hand Adam would fail the test? Yes or no? What purpose was the tree for, other than to be a temptation? Did God put satan on Earth to tempt Adam? Could God have prevented satan from tempting Adam?

So now you get to be the lawyer, what do you say to get God off the hook? I think it is a clear cut case of needing his son to be the savior of mankind, and he needed someone dumb enough and gullible enough to be the fall guy. God knew Adam would listen to the tempter. I say there no way you can find Adam guilty. He should not have been cursed. Okay, your witness.

 

[Shad]

If I put a loaded gun on a table and tell my child not to touch it. Yet the child does and kills someone I am negligent. God could remove the proverbial gun but did not. God could of put a supernatural barrier around the tree but did not. God was watching Adam but did not act until after the event. God is a horrible parent.

 

[Clear]

CG DIDYMUS : " You need an alibi? I was a born liar, so one more isn't going to matter. I'll swear in court that you and me were out preaching the Word to newborn babies... That we trying our best to save them from their evil ways."

How can I trust that you are honest enough to keep your promise to lie?

Clear

 

[adi2d]

I don't mean to interrupt but if you have a swimming pool in a residential area and a child drowns you are held responsible if you don't have it fenced in. The sign doesn't matter. Children aren't responsible because of their lack of knowledge

Lack of knowledge=lack of responsibility. IMHO of course

 

[CG Didymus]

CG DIDYMUS : " You need an alibi? I was a born liar, so one more isn't going to matter. I'll swear in court that you and me were out preaching the Word to newborn babies... That we trying our best to save them from their evil ways."

How can I trust that you are honest enough to keep your promise to lie?

Clear

Have I ever lied to you before? I mean, that you know of?

 

[CG Didymus]

I don't mean to interrupt but if you have a swimming pool in a residential area and a child drowns you are held responsible if you don't have it fenced in. The sign doesn't matter. Children aren't responsible because of their lack of knowledge

Lack of knowledge=lack of responsibility. IMHO of course

Even in his analogies, we don't get the whole story. The guy that put up the sign also had someone in the water telling poor Adam, "come on in the water's fine. That sign means nothing." The sign maker wanted Adam to drown and was using the sign as his excuse as to why he wasn't responsible.

It's worse with the car. The designer put up a sign that said to slow down, but he placed a leaking fire hydrant next to the road to wet the pavement, then banked the curve the wrong way, and then paid a guy to be a passenger in Adam's car that kept telling him, "Hey, don't be a chicken. Let's see how fast you can make this turn."

God knew. God set up the circumstances. And, pretended not to be aware what the serpent and Adam and Eve were doing.

 

[JM2C]

I don't mean to interrupt but if you have a swimming pool in a residential area and a child drowns you are held responsible if you don't have it fenced in. The sign doesn't matter. Children aren't responsible because of their lack of knowledge

Lack of knowledge=lack of responsibility. IMHO of course

Should we exhaust all the laws concerning liabilities and negligence to satisfy us with the right answer?
Different situation should have different precautions. The man is liable by negligence only if the law says he must put a sign and a fence otherwise, he is not with just a sign only. If with the sign only and a kid drowned then that’s the parent responsibility and not the pool owner.

The law has responsibilities for kids because of their lack of knowledge and the man as a “Reasonable Person” who owns the pool should follow what the law requires.

 

[Around]

"Where is the evil in my premise?"


It doesn't seem to be true.

 

[Clear]

CG DIDYMUS : "Have I ever lied to you before? I mean, that you know of?"

All joking aside, I believe you are wonderfully genuine. I think your comments are often very, very insightful and intelligent and represent points that have given me a great deal of food for thought. I've like the LDS concept of adopting true principles from any source one can find it and I will take light from any lamp that provides it. I am grateful for the kind of thoughts you have given me CG DIDYMUS.

Thank you

Clear

 

[WhatGod]

This was brought out many times by Atheists and agnostics, I would like to discuss it with you in a rational and respectful manner. My disclaimer is I am a true 5 point Calvinist

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

I'm sorry you think you are totally depraved.

God not only allows children to die, He has pre-ordained them to die.

In the bible he even kills them either directly himself or by proxy and then he damns the babies to hell.

Hard for us to fathom, granted, but True nevertheless in Scripture.

Not that hard if you consider it a work of fiction written by a brutal and ignorant people. But if you think its true; yep that would be really twisted and evil.

If we say he did not ...

Nope you are 100% correct. Bible god murders babies in droves and then damns them forever. That is straight up what it says. Kinda makes him seem evil.

So you have asked, where is the comfort in that?

There is no comfort at all and not is being offered. It's just the murder of totally depraved infants and their eternal torment by your just and loving god.

Or could it be more comforting that a God in control is with their babies now?

Your five points mean that they are burning in eternal torment. How is that more comforting than having their suffering at an end?